Possible fine for Dusty

[Rosy]

the dance was aimed AT Abbott.

The only clip I could find showed the dance being done for Tony rather than at him It would be pre-approved, sanctioned and without implied violence. No pretending to thrust spears into him in anger in a threatening manner. Can't see too much similarity with that to what Goodes and Jetta did to the crowd. Maybe you're referring to a different 'dance' though.

 

[Coburgtiger]

No pretending to thrust spears into him in anger in a threatening manner.

Wow, way to editorialise.

It get's scarier every time you mention it, Rosy.

 

[Rosy]

Wow, way to editorialise.

It get's scarier every time you mention it, Rosy.

Goodes said that it was a war dance and that of course it was done in anger and it was designed to be threatening. I doubt anyone was scared, other than you apparently, but it certainly wasn't meant to be a friendly gesture. Should I be flattered to have my own personal stalkers on this topic who like to take smart alec pot shots each time I post but rarely add anything to the topic?

Tell me Coburg do you think the AFL should have different rules for different races among the players? How was what Jetta did any more acceptable than what Dusty did?

 

[IanG]

Goodes said that it was a war dance and that of course it was done in anger and it was designed to be threatening. I doubt anyone was scared, other than you apparently, but it certainly wasn't meant to be a friendly gesture.

By Goodes own words he did not intend anything untoward with regard to the spectators

 

[MurrayValleyTiger]

Jetta's 'antics' were not even in the Indigenous Round. So what was he celebrating?

 

[Rosy]

By Goodes own words he did not intend anything untoward with regard to the spectators

So you keep saying. Guess the story changes as he goes along considering the contradictory nature of his comments. That can happen when you cop a bit of unwanted flak.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Goodes said that it was a war dance and that of course it was done in anger and it was designed to be threatening. I doubt anyone was scared, other than you apparently, but it certainly wasn't meant to be a friendly gesture. Should I be flattered to have my own personal stalkers on this topic who like to take smart alec pot shots each time I post but rarely add anything to the topic?

Tell me Coburg do you think the AFL should have different rules for different races among the players? How was what Jetta did any more acceptable than what Dusty did?

Rosy, I've answered that exact question about ninety million times on the various threads you keep inventing to paint Goodes as an angry war mongering, threatening spear impaler.


And you need to stop framing questions suggesting that it's simply different rules for different races. It is not. IF Jetta and Goodes had flipped the bird at the cheer squads, they would have received fines as well.

The AFL has an indigenous round. This round is designed to celebrate indigenous culture. Goodes performed a dance as a celebration of his indigenous heritage, in that round. There was a spear involved in that dance, which you seem to be fixated by. The throwing of a spear is pretty standard in a variety of indigenous dances. The ferals went nuts about it, and started a systematic, consistent bullying approach from then onward. Jetta then performed the dance, as did a number of indigenous players, to show the public that invisible spears ain't that scary, and that Goodes had the support of his community.

Also, in regards to the spear throwing, i would say to you "

I doubt anyone was scared, other than you apparently.

And I take offense at the implication that I'm a stalker. You have been spamming several threads, including creating a unique one, about this same issue. You can't be upset when someone responds to that.

 

[nqtiger]

The only clip I could find showed the dance being done for Tony rather than at him It would be pre-approved, sanctioned and without implied violence. No pretending to thrust spears into him in anger in a threatening manner. Can't see too much similarity with that to what Goodes and Jetta did to the crowd. Maybe you're referring to a different 'dance' though.

Th Jetta up yours has been conveniently forgotten as it doesn't come under the traditional excuse

 

[Tames]

By Goodes own words he did not intend anything untoward with regard to the spectators

If that was the case, maybe he should have "celebrated" by performing his dance at the Sydney crowd instead.

Bet the booing wouldn't have been as bad the following weeks.

 

[nqtiger]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2BkIeG6oKM

Right at the end is what looks like an up yours to the crowd

 

[Rosy]

......

And you need to stop framing questions suggesting that it's simply different rules for different races. It is not. IF Jetta and Goodes had flipped the bird at the cheer squads, they would have received fines as well.

Not interested in hypothetical situations. You wouldn't have a clue how the AFL would react if Goodes or Jetta "flipped the bird".

.......
The AFL has an indigenous round. This round is designed to celebrate indigenous culture. Goodes performed a dance as a celebration of his indigenous heritage, in that round. There was a spear involved in that dance, which you seem to be fixated by. The throwing of a spear is pretty standard in a variety of indigenous dances. The ferals went nuts about it, and started a systematic, consistent bullying approach from then onward. Jetta then performed the dance, as did a number of indigenous players, to show the public that invisible spears ain't that scary, and that Goodes had the support of his community.

.......

So if the fans didn't like it and went nuts about it how can it be a thing to be condoned by the AFL? It required security to become involved. Goodes certainly didn't like it when he copped a bit back either. It works both ways. If Jetta did the dance to show the public that invisible spears aren't scary as you claim (I think that's crap. Not the reason he did it at all) then he must have considered the public to have felt threatened by it.

.......
And I take offense at the implication that I'm a stalker. You have been spamming several threads, including creating a unique one, about this same issue. You can't be upset when someone responds to that.

Haha @ taking offense. You have quoted my posts to have some smart dig rather than to contribute to the discussion. I am not spamming threads at all. I am interested in the topic and all the nuances and posting my opinions accordingly. I certainly don't follow others around having gratuitous cracks each time they post without adding my own opinions.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Not interested in hypothetical situations. You wouldn't have a clue how the AFL would react if Goodes or Jetta "flipped the bird".


So if the fans didn't like it and went nuts about it how can it be a thing to be condoned by the AFL? It required security to become involved. Goodes certainly didn't like it when he copped a bit back either. It works both ways. If Jetta did the dance to show the public that invisible spears aren't scary as you claim (I think that's crap. Not the reason he did it at all) then he must have considered the public to have felt threatened by it.


Haha @ taking offense. You have quoted my posts to have some smart dig rather than to contribute to the discussion. I am not spamming threads at all. I am interested in the topic and all the nuances and posting my opinions accordingly. I certainly don't follow others around having gratuitous cracks each time they post without adding my own opinions.

I have quoted your posts to respond to irrational hyperbole. I have contributed at length to this discussion, on the various threads where you are continually peddling the idea that Indigenous celebration is akin to obscenities. You didn't like that I chose to highlight how you are continually editorialising a past event to invent an us vs them situation which doesn't exist, and you resorted to calling me names.

You clearly have a perspective of this situation that you've decided is a truth. I'm not sure repeating that ad nauseum on several threads is contributing to discussion either.

 

[Rosy]

.......
You clearly have a perspective of this situation that you've decided is a truth. I'm not sure repeating that ad nauseum on several threads is contributing to discussion either.

I've stuck to facts rather than hypotheticals. I've also asked questions based on others' claims but it seems those questions can't be answered.

Maybe you can tell me. How was what Goodes and Jetta did a "poorly understood cultural symbol"? In what was was it "traditional"? Why was it done towards fans when it wouldn't be done towards an opposition team with an Indigenous member in it? Why wasn't it done to Swans supporters? You've suggested Jetta did it to show imaginary spears aren't scary. Why would he think people thought them scary in the first place? All I know is what Goodes said about it rather than what those targeted thought. He didn't look too happy about it to me. I've seen simulated spear throwing in aboriginal dances. I haven't seen it done directly at the "enemy", in a way that's meant to be intimidating, as a celebration though. Have you?

 

[AngryAnt]

Wow, it just keeps going doesn't it. Reminds me of Carts and myself arguing about Dimma or Ty.

 

[Rosy]

Difference Antman is that you and Carts made it a mud-slinging match and very personal which breached the posting guidelines and we had complaints about. Something you've been warned about before with other posters. Feel free to answer my questions....if you can. Nobody else seems willing/able to despite what they claim.

 

[IanG]

I've stuck to facts rather than hypotheticals. I've also asked questions based on others' claims but it seems those questions can't be answered.

Maybe you can tell me. How was what Goodes and Jetta did a "poorly understood cultural symbol"? In what was was it "traditional"?

This has already been answered by quoting more than 1 expert. It sounds like you want a blow by blow breakdown of how its traditional and I dunno why you would expect that on this forum. I don't have such a breakdown but I'm prepared to accept the testimony of aboriginals that those who did the choreography did adapt from other aboriginal dances.

 

[Chimptastic]

This has already been answered by quoting more than 1 expert. It sounds like you want a blow by blow breakdown of how its traditional and I dunno why you would expect that on this forum. I don't have such a breakdown but I'm prepared to accept the testimony of aboriginals that those who did the choreography did adapt from other aboriginal dances.

If by 'sounds like you want blow by blow breakdown' you mean some people want to discuss the fine details of a complex issue, then yes. To me it seems that nobody has been capable of addressing the detail in Rosy's questions. I can only find generalised responses.

I'm happy to be redirected to a previous post that completely answers her questions if I am mistaken.

 

[Rosy]

This has already been answered by quoting more than 1 expert. It sounds like you want a blow by blow breakdown of how its traditional and I dunno why you would expect that on this forum. I don't have such a breakdown but I'm prepared to accept the testimony of aboriginals that those who did the choreography did adapt from other aboriginal dances.

Ok maybe I missed it. What did the so called "experts" say? What qualifies them as "experts"? How was it traditional? "Blow by blow" or a "breakdown" isn't necessary. I never for one second suggested I expected that. How was it traditional? How was it a poorly understood cultural symbol? Links will do.

 

[Rosy]

If by 'sounds like you want blow by blow breakdown' you mean some people want to discuss the fine details of a complex issue, then yes. To me it seems that nobody has been capable of addressing the detail in Rosy's questions. I can only find generalised responses.

I'm happy to be redirected to a previous post that completely answers her questions if I am mistaken.

Ditto. I don't know why people are so up in arms about requests for clarification. Better to answer the very simple questions, based on claims made on PRE, than make it personal or throw in red herrings.

 

[Sintiger]

Ok maybe I missed it. What did the so called "experts" say? What qualifies them as "experts"? How was it traditional? "Blow by blow" or a "breakdown" isn't necessary. I never for one second suggested I expected that. How was it traditional? How was it a poorly understood cultural symbol? Links will do.

Rosy I am not intending to get into the discussion and have no desire to be involved in this exchange but I did post the below. I don't know if the indigenous person I asked is an expert but she does do " call to country" ceremonies around Melbourne.

Many traditional aboriginal dances have spear throwing in them. Usually they are about catching food by hunting, spearing a goanna or a kangaroo. Aboriginal dances are adapted and change but they usually have traditional actions in them of which a spear throwing action is one. It can be part of an aggressive dance if that is the context of the situation like one tribe fighting another but normally these dances are not about that.

If an aboriginal person or group makes up a new dance that doesn't necessarily make it non-traditional because it will most probably include traditional moves and actions.

This is not my opinion btw, I asked an indigenous Australian about it and this is the answer she gave me.