Possible fine for Dusty

[BT Tiger]

Wow! Showing your age there! :angel:

That changed to the two finger salute in the 60-70's and then the 1 finger middle digit in the 80-90's.

If that is the case, and it was over 40 years ago that it was commonly used, then how could Dusty, or most players under the age of 30, know that it would have been offensive? I cannot recall ever seeing it used, or heard of the "two fingered salute"

You see plenty of players giving the index finger salute/point/waggle after kicking a goal. I do not understand the angst about it the two finger salute/point/waggle.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

If that is the case, and it was over 40 years ago that it was commonly used, then how could Dusty, or most players under the age of 30, know that it would have been offensive? I cannot recall ever seeing it used, or heard of the "two fingered salute"

You see plenty of players giving the index finger salute/point/waggle after kicking a goal. I do not understand the angst about it the two finger salute/point/waggle.

That's because we're all being a bit nice. In truth like anything else context and "tone" is key. It can mean anything from "stick it up your jumper" to "go and *smile* yourself!". In Aus it is almost gone but it remains a genuinely rude gesture in the UK I think.

 

[Rosy]

..
Race relations is a different issue IMO. All can be treated equal when they are actually equal. At the moment that isn't the case and I can understand why an organisation like the AFL that is in a unique position, in that it puts Aboriginal faces on our screens every week in a way that give kids in remote communities hope, would choose to be more supportive of those players. Some clearly see that as "positive discrimination", that's as may be but the thing about positive discrimination is that it works.

Who are the AFL to encourage Indigenous players to stick it up the non-indigenous crowd to give kids in remote areas hope. I don't believe that's the reason, certainly not from what I've read and seen, and if it is it's not a very good lesson. Not exactly the way to encourage treating everyone the same. I've seen an aboriginal team and their behaviour towards the opposition players and crowds in our local league. Not pretty and not acceptable. They worked very hard to eradicate it.

 

[Rosy]

So Gil suggests some players can celebrate what they want and how they want and direct it to whoever they want in whatever manner they want, because it's indigenous round. Regardless in what manner or who it's directed at.
But Dusty can't celebrate how he wants or who he directs it at, with a smile on his face.But he is fined
Riiiight Gil. We get it.

Indigenous round didn't apply to Jetta.

 

[shawry]

The AFL is a disgraceful organisation that never knows consistency in anything. The MRP is never consistent and favours some over others. The draw is never consistent, umpiring is never consistent, and the decisions made by their overpaid bureaucrats are also never consistent and insulting to the common man. They just do whatever suits their agenda and always have. Take the WADA "independent" tribunal decision as another example. Disgusting organisation that needs to take a long hard look at itself and learn about consistency and not treating the common man as a fool and stop dancing around big issues. The only thing they are consistent in is being consistently inconsistent in their decisions and views.

 

[jb03]

The AFL is a disgraceful organisation that never knows consistency in anything. The MRP is never consistent and favours some over others. The draw is never consistent, umpiring is never consistent, and the decisions made by their overpaid bureaucrats are also never consistent and insulting to the common man. They just do whatever suits their agenda and always have. Take the WADA "independent" tribunal decision as another example. Disgusting organisation that needs to take a long hard look at itself and learn about consistency and not treating the common man as a fool and stop dancing around big issues. The only thing they are consistent in is being consistently inconsistent in their decisions and views.

Nice Sharwy

 

[axlefoley]

Did McChins actually comment on his 'cheer'squads behaviour?

I haven't had the opportunity to read or hear all the discussions but I don't think so.

God help Adam Goodes, Lewis Jetta and those politically correct hypocritical A-holes at the AFL if Richmond gets a home final against Sydney. They thought the boos were loud in WA, well they haven't heard anything yet!!! At the very least 70,000 plus Richmond members and supporters should all do the two fingered salute whenever Dustin kicks a goal. The inconsistency and the double standards of the AFL are simply breathtaking. Simply disgusted.

Lol, sounds good to me and I will surely boo them especially Goodes. I will also boo him when he gets chaired off hopefully never to return as a player because he churns my guts.

 

[Chiang Mai Tiger]

Nice Sharwy

Yep 'Sharwy' consistently comes up with good consistent posts

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Who are the AFL to encourage Indigenous players to stick it up the non-indigenous crowdto give kids in remote areas hope. I don't believe that's the reason, certainly not from what I've read and seen, and if it is it's not a very good lesson. Not exactly the way to encourage treating everyone the same. I've seen an aboriginal team and their behaviour towards the opposition players and crowds in our local league. Not pretty and not acceptable. They worked very hard to eradicate it.

You'll have to quote where I said that Rosy, I can't see how you've come to that conclusionat all? I was talking about the general disadvantage in Indigenous communities, not the specific gesture. There is no comparison in the gestures. One is a very well known negative symbol, the other is a poorly understood cultural symbol. The AFL is generally the biggest stage for Indigenous males, hopefully women too one day, so it is a great way to develop a positive modern story. Who is the AFL? Whoever their board says they are. They do things to promote societal change (domestic violence, drug use, womens round) all the time I don't see how their attempts to promote a positive Indigenous story is any different TBH.

 

[graystar1]

Wonder if Andrew Bolt reads this site??? The ridiculous fine Dusty received was given air time today on the Bolt Report. Very interesting view.

 

[Nico]

Would love to see Gill's reaction if Dusty did a mini haka (given his Maori heritage) after a goal finishing with a throat slit gesture. Try fining or suspending him for that.

 

[Tails]

Really? Wikipedia????

Try the Oxford dictionary....

"The transmission of customs or beliefs from GENERATION TO GENERATION, or the fact of being passed on in this way"

"A long-established custom or belief that has been passed on from one generation to another"

You wanna try and excuse Goodes' crass behaviour as "cultural tradition".....when he OPENLY admitted it has ZERO historical significance and was INVENTED only a few years earlier.
For a self-declared expert on aboriginal culture and history.....maybe you should learn what the words actually mean first????

P.S. And for what it's worth, Dusty's gesture has historical and cultural significance, dating back at least 700 years.

Dusty should have just invented a version of the Haka (being part Maori) to do towards the crowd. It would have been 2 minutes old......but, by your reckoning it would be culturally significant.

You are so wrong its hardly worth arguing with you!

 

[Tails]

Do you want a medal?

Cobbling together a bunch of unrelated actions to create a NEW dance is by it's very definition.....NOT TRADITIONAL.


If you don't understand the difference....then that's your problem.

Goodes' dance was about as "traditional" as Zumba!

Well I actually went and researched, wrote and directed a documentary about an aboriginal tribe, what have you done?

 

[Tails]

What does all that have to do with Adam looking like a goose pretending to spear the opposition supporters? By the way I am not from Melbourne. I admit I don't know "all things Aboriginal" though. There's a good chance nobody really does when as you say there are so many nations and tribes but don't let that stop your insults or air of superiority.


Good. Can you explain the tradition behind what Goodes and Jetta did to the crowd mid-game and the relevance of it to AFL football please. Please also tell us why he wouldn't do it to the opposition team, as he said, because it had an Indigenous player in it?

Go to Ronin Films and get a copy of my documentary Secret & Sacred: Badtjala, maybe you might begin to understand some things,. By the way its not an air of superiority that I have I am just very disappointed in some of the uninformed and ignorant comment when it comes to Adam Goodes. I clearly don't barrack for the Swans but the level of it just drains me. Go out and read some books by Dr. Henry Reynolds, Inga Clendinnen or the very recent one by Libby Connors, "Warrior". It after all is Australian History and far more interesting than some German explorer dying in the desert discovering things that were already there!

 

[BT Tiger]

Go to Ronin Films and get a copy of my documentary Secret & Sacred: Badtjala, maybe you might begin to understand some things,. By the way its not an air of superiority that I have I am just very disappointed in some of the uninformed and ignorant comment when it comes to Adam Goodes. I clearly don't barrack for the Swans but the level of it just drains me. Go out and read some books by Dr. Henry Reynolds, Inga Clendinnen or the very recent one by Libby Connors, "Warrior". It after all is Australian History and far more interesting than some German explorer dying in the desert discovering things that were already there!

How about answering the question than telling someone to watch a god-knows how long documentary or read a dozen books? You are certainly coming across with an air of superiority.

 

[Rosy]

No Tails. Not interested in what is written. I've asked for info from those who've made specific claims about the topic. Not one person has told me what the tradition is behind the war dance and the way it was done.

The questions should be simple to answer for those making the claims.

I'll repeat what I asked you.

Can you explain the tradition behind what Goodes and Jetta did to the crowd mid-game and the relevance of it to AFL football please. Please also tell us why he wouldn't do it to the opposition team, as he said, because it had an Indigenous player in it?

More interested in your reasoning seeing you paint yourself as being so much more knowledgeable than those from Melbourne.

 

[Rosy]

You'll have to quote where I said that Rosy, I can't see how you've come to that conclusionat all? I was talking about the general disadvantage in Indigenous communities, not the specific gesture. There is no comparison in the gestures. One is a very well known negative symbol, the other is a poorly understood cultural symbol. The AFL is generally the biggest stage for Indigenous males, hopefully women too one day, so it is a great way to develop a positive modern story. Who is the AFL? Whoever their board says they are. They do things to promote societal change (domestic violence, drug use, womens round) all the time I don't see how their attempts to promote a positive Indigenous story is any different TBH.

No I won't have to quote you at all. I didn't say you said it. It's the conclusion I have come to based on facts. The war dance happened mid-game. It was aimed at opposition supporters. It was said it wouldn't be done to the opposition team cos they had an indigenous player. It was done in anger. It was designed to be threatening.

I'm not a fan of their contrived rounds but there's a big difference in those you refer to and what Goodes and Jetta did.

Can you please explain how pretending to spear white fellas is a poorly understood cultural symbol.

 

[AngryAnt]

Do we really have to revisit all this angst again? I bet Dusty's not giving it a moment's thought.

 

[Rosy]

Do we really have to revisit all this angst again? I bet Dusty's not giving it a moment's thought.

There have been some pretty specific claims made. Some clarification would be nice. I doubt Dusty gives anything we say on here too much thought. :blah

 

[AngryAnt]

There have been some pretty specific claims made. Some clarification would be nice. I doubt Dusty gives anything we say on here too much thought. :blah

Can Dusty even read? And do we care? :hihi

Yeah, haven't been following all the pros and cons on this thread recently... carry on if you are interested!