Possible fine for Dusty | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Possible fine for Dusty

rosy23 said:
No I won't have to quote you at all. I didn't say you said it. It's the conclusion I have come to based on facts. The war dance happened mid-game. It was aimed at opposition supporters. It was said it wouldn't be done to the opposition team cos they had an indigenous player. It was done in anger. It was designed to be threatening.

I'm not a fan of their contrived rounds but there's a big difference in those you refer to and what Goodes and Jetta did.

Can you please explain how pretending to spear white fellas is a poorly understood cultural symbol.

We are going to have to agree to disagree Rosy. I've explained why I think these are different issues and I've consistently disagreed with your perspective of Goodes. We have neither of us moved an inch so I don't see the point of starting it up again.
 
KnightersRevenge said:
We are going to have to agree to disagree Rosy. I've explained why I think these are different issues and I've consistently disagreed with your perspective of Goodes. We have neither of us moved an inch so I don't see the point of starting it up again.

This isn't about my perspective of Goodes (or Jetta or Dusty) though Knighters. It's about specific actions and the way the AFL has dealt with them.

You said Dusty's was a well known negative symbol. Fair enough. It was done with a smile just the same rather than to threaten the crowd.

You said the war dance was a poorly understood cultural symbol. That's what I don't get. Same with the claims it was a traditional thing.

Remembering this is in the context of an AFL game where imo everyone should be subject to the same rules I'd love to know what the tradition and the poorly understood cultural symbol are.

It seems a cop out to me to say agree to disagree. I don't know what I'm supposed to be disagreeing with. I'm not saying it wasn't a poorly misunderstood cultural symbol. I'm asking how it was that. It seems the lack of willingness to elaborate indicates they were just terms that sound good but can't be applied to this situation.
 
i noticed a 'war dance' being performed for our PM when he was in Arnhem Land. noone appeared worried by it.

im not sure someone sticking up two fingers at him would be viewed the same way.
 
rosy23 said:
It is a bit of a joke but the AFL come out of this very poorly in my eyes. No way would people in my house be subject to different rules based on race. And based on race is the only way I can see this considering recent behaviours they've condoned. I reckon they're a disgrace and should give a wide berth to topical non-football or political matters and concentrate on the game.

Still waiting for Tails or someone else playing the Traditional card to explain the history behind the so called war dance and the relevance to what Goodes and Jetta did.

Agree wholeheartedly let's forget the protected species that is Adam Goodes for a second, in what part of tradition was jettas up yours gestures to the Eagles supporters after his spear throwing and why wasn't he cited?

Is it because Jetta is indigenous and dusty isn't?

aFL house is racist full stop
 
Rosy, you are far too logical for issues that can be reduced to pleasant phrases of no substance. The back and forth has the appearance of watching someone attempt to convince a young earth Creationist that the earth is millions of years old. And they would also ask you to read a book.

In all aspects of life, people want to apply general rules to preserve brain energy. And so we should - can you imagine if we had to think critically every time someone asks us how we've been?!

But in our current society there's this vague idea that someone must be right when one is being sensitive to the minority. It stems from a one-sized general attitude that usually does serve it's purpose very well. It's a good compass. But the final one-sized general rule here is that people do not wish to entertain ideas to the contrary when the topic involves race.

The logic can be reduced to "I'm being sensitive to the minority race, I am the type of person that will always be sensitive to the minority race, therefore I absolutely will not entertain ideas to the contrary".

That's why it's human nature to mindlessly support the spear throwing.

It's difficult to break down those general guiding rules to enter meaningful critical discussion, as those rules are at the very core of what makes a person good. It's highly threatening to tamper with them, and only skilled logicians should attempt it.
 
Many traditional aboriginal dances have spear throwing in them. Usually they are about catching food by hunting, spearing a goanna or a kangaroo. Aboriginal dances are adapted and change but they usually have traditional actions in them of which a spear throwing action is one. It can be part of an aggressive dance if that is the context of the situation like one tribe fighting another but normally these dances are not about that.

If an aboriginal person or group makes up a new dance that doesn't necessarily make it non-traditional because it will most probably include traditional moves and actions.

This is not my opinion btw, I asked an indigenous Australian about it and this is the answer she gave me.
 
Sintiger said:
Many traditional aboriginal dances have spear throwing in them. Usually they are about catching food by hunting, spearing a goanna or a kangaroo. Aboriginal dances are adapted and change but they usually have traditional actions in them of which a spear throwing action is one. It can be part of an aggressive dance if that is the context of the situation like one tribe fighting another but normally these dances are not about that.

If an aboriginal person or group makes up a new dance that doesn't necessarily make it non-traditional because it will most probably include traditional moves and actions.

This is not my opinion btw, I asked an indigenous Australian about it and this is the answer she gave me.

Yep, it can be traditional despite changes.

I noticed you said they are usually aimed at hunting (to kill animals) and are normally not aggressive.

So rarely are they aimed at other humans, specifically humans of a certain race, in an aggressive manner in response to provocation/mid-sporting match celebrations.
 
Chimptastic said:
Yep, it can be traditional despite changes.

I noticed you said they are usually aimed at hunting (to kill animals) and are normally not aggressive.

So rarely are they aimed at other humans, specifically humans of a certain race, in an aggressive manner in response to provocation.
I am not an expert Chimpa, I am just saying what I was told. All she said was that dances very often have spear throwing when they are just about hunting for food. If they are about fighting other tribes then they can be about other humans.

I am not trying to make value judgements, I simply asked the question and got an answer.
 
Chimptastic said:
Rosy, you are far too logical for issues that can be reduced to pleasant phrases of no substance. The back and forth has the appearance of watching someone attempt to convince a young earth Creationist that the earth is millions of years old. And they would also ask you to read a book.

In all aspects of life, people want to apply general rules to preserve brain energy. And so we should - can you imagine if we had to think critically every time someone asks us how we've been?!

But in our current society there's this vague idea that someone must be right when one is being sensitive to the minority. It stems from a one-sized general attitude that usually does serve it's purpose very well. It's a good compass. But the final one-sized general rule here is that people do not wish to entertain ideas to the contrary when the topic involves race.

The logic can be reduced to "I'm being sensitive to the minority race, I am the type of person that will always be sensitive to the minority race, therefore I absolutely will not entertain ideas to the contrary".

That's why it's human nature to mindlessly support the spear throwing.

It's difficult to break down those general guiding rules to enter meaningful critical discussion, as those rules are at the very core of what makes a person good. It's highly threatening to tamper with them, and only skilled logicians should attempt it.
Well said Chimp. My biggest concern is how the PC police try to shut out dissenting opinion. It is a free society and we should embrace diverse opinions and free speech. I hate being told what I should do, how to act and think.
 
The Mole said:
Well said Chimp. My biggest concern is how the PC police try to shut out dissenting opinion. It is a free society and we should embrace diverse opinions and free speech. I hate being told what I should do, how to act and think.

Not married then i take it Mole.
 
The Mole said:
Well said Chimp. My biggest concern is how the PC police try to shut out dissenting opinion. It is a free society and we should embrace diverse opinions and free speech. I hate being told what I should do, how to act and think.

Now I'm confused, is it the PC Brigade or the PC Police?

Can't believe we're still talking about this. Dusty would have been pissed off if he wasn't fined, or at least his manager would have. This is grist to the 'Bad Boy Dusty' mill, he eats that up!
 
Brodders17 said:
i noticed a 'war dance' being performed for our PM when he was in Arnhem Land. ......

Big difference in for our PM, as you say, and at our PM. Goodes and Jetta aimed their performances at opposition supporters and did it in anger. Would have been an different matter if they'd done a general cameo, not aimed at anyone and at an appropriate time.
 
rosy23 said:
Big difference in for our PM, as you say, and at our PM.

I'd feel safer being presented with an imaginary spear rather than being speared with an imaginary spear.
 
tigersnake said:
I'd feel safer being presented with an imaginary spear rather than being speared with an imaginary spear.

Good onya....whatever your post is supposed to mean. :hihi
 
Without stating my opinion on the current Cultural Authoritarians that have been invading earth since facebook, youtube and twitter etc have appeared and being quite liberal in my own thinking I have recently watched a clip of Bill Maher, "Explaining Jokes to Idiots". If you youtube or facebook this it may give you some perspective of why some people think booing is construed as racist and why others don't in whatever situation. Its actually quite simply put. I hope you enjoy.
 
mld said:
I like PC brigade, so I can be a PC brigadier.

I'm in! As long as I can wear a spiffy black uniform with lots of medals like that nice Border Force commander chappy. Keeping us all safe from nasty visa overstayers buying souvenirs in Swanston St
 
rosy23 said:
Big difference in for our PM, as you say, and at our PM. Goodes and Jetta aimed their performances at opposition supporters and did it in anger. Would have been an different matter if they'd done a general cameo, not aimed at anyone and at an appropriate time.

the dance was aimed AT Abbott.