One way to look at it is how often do the teams fighting it out in September normally excel in the pre season.
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Can't see any promising signs
- Thread starter joegarra
- Start date
I don't expect to win practice matches but watch with interest how the fringe players go. Hampson still can't mark - confirms the major worry if Maric gets injured. Grimes still plays for free kicks. Astbury still ponders and looks sideways. Vlaustin looked really really good. Townsend may give a bit of grunt. McIntosh looked much the same as last year. Hopefully we magically flick the switch v Carlton.
tha8ball said:
exactly right its a meaningless practice game, have not had a full side yet, put valustin into midfield, add c ellis, yarran, miles, maric, into team and play martin, deledio, cotchin, rance for full games and theres no comparison to last night, and biggest of all, guys want to play well in a real game, and the effort will be there.
When you look at who played last night and the injuries we sustained, perspective in the clear light of day reveals we just move on from this as a bad night where not much went right. Broad, Chol, Rioli, Moore and Townsend - all first year players to the club; Hampson, who hasn't played with the side for months (maybe that's why his awareness of what was going on around him was poor and he spoiled our players so often?) Surely the more he plays with the team the more he learns the structures and understands where his team mates will be? Astbury is in the same boat as Hampson; I suspect Townsend will be the only of these players who plays in round 1.
Menadue is in his 2nd year and only played a handful of games; A way-underdone TV; Lids only 1/2 a game;
We lost Edwards in the 1st quarter, Grigg and Conca in the second, Townsend in the final...
I think we can pick up the pieces and move on from this game pretty quickly.
Menadue is in his 2nd year and only played a handful of games; A way-underdone TV; Lids only 1/2 a game;
We lost Edwards in the 1st quarter, Grigg and Conca in the second, Townsend in the final...
I think we can pick up the pieces and move on from this game pretty quickly.
The loss or margin are unimportant.
The fact is we scored 5 goals and 3 came directly or indirectly from Jack early. Dejavu all over again.
Forward line is a mess and the whole pre season did not address our problems there. Hardwick thought he was by playing 'better' tacklers and there's the rub!
No system, no continuity, no form.
We should beat Carlton easily but we are no monties as it stands today!
The fact is we scored 5 goals and 3 came directly or indirectly from Jack early. Dejavu all over again.
Forward line is a mess and the whole pre season did not address our problems there. Hardwick thought he was by playing 'better' tacklers and there's the rub!
No system, no continuity, no form.
We should beat Carlton easily but we are no monties as it stands today!
Whilst I'm hopeful that everyone on the list will turn into the next Buddy/Fyfe/Ablett/Rance frankenstein monster (but with Rance's good looks), and this will be the first year of a decade of crushing the life out of the scumwood, drugcheats, tankcheats, salarycheats and North Melbourne... a more realistic assessment
Looking at the back 6 ... they went well last year, with 4 good/better players (Rance, Houli, Bossranga, Grimes) and two that could do better. So where's the improvement come from? Two of them (Rance and Houli) might be as good as they will get. The safe bet is they maintain their current standard. You'd expect some incremental improvement from Floss and Grimes as they get more experience (and in Grimes case, and un-interrupted run at). The biggest improvement should come from the last two spots.... The last two defenders you would think would come from batch/broad/Yarran/Menadue and Chap/Astbury/Elton/Griff? ... and you would expect whomever it was from the first group to be an improvement over Batch (even if its batch improving on last year). The tall spot is a worry though...
With the forwards, Jack, Sheds, Lids and Martin could reasonably be expected to be as least as good this year as they were last year - but are they near their peak? Vickery will tbe there abouts ... hopefully he's got improvement in him, but unless theres something out-of-the-ordinary (Griff clicks or McBean kicks 27 in an afternoon and forces his selection) I'm guessing the most dramatic improvement in the forward half will come from whomever replaces the smalls of last year (Morris/Lennon/Lloyd/Gordon).... Rioli's exciting, but realistically he is unlikely to improve the forwardline in the short-term (or keep Lloyd out on current form)
The middle is confusing... Maric will go backwards and there's no great ruck hope waiting to step in. Cotchin, as good as he is, has atagnated a bit. Will it be more of the same this year, and improvement or a gentle slide down the hill? Are the supporting act (Grigg/KMac/Miles/BEllis) got big improvement in them? Shuffling the deck around the midfield bottom (grigg v townsend v moore v lambert v KMac v Bellis) isn't likelly to have a dramatic change. Big improvement might come from youngers like Menadue and CEllis replacing the older/slower/role players on merit (rather than on potential) but I dont know if that will happen this year.
Anyway, as the kids say TL;dr
- expecting some improvement down back
- expecting more improvement up front
- worried about whats happening in the middle
Looking at the back 6 ... they went well last year, with 4 good/better players (Rance, Houli, Bossranga, Grimes) and two that could do better. So where's the improvement come from? Two of them (Rance and Houli) might be as good as they will get. The safe bet is they maintain their current standard. You'd expect some incremental improvement from Floss and Grimes as they get more experience (and in Grimes case, and un-interrupted run at). The biggest improvement should come from the last two spots.... The last two defenders you would think would come from batch/broad/Yarran/Menadue and Chap/Astbury/Elton/Griff? ... and you would expect whomever it was from the first group to be an improvement over Batch (even if its batch improving on last year). The tall spot is a worry though...
With the forwards, Jack, Sheds, Lids and Martin could reasonably be expected to be as least as good this year as they were last year - but are they near their peak? Vickery will tbe there abouts ... hopefully he's got improvement in him, but unless theres something out-of-the-ordinary (Griff clicks or McBean kicks 27 in an afternoon and forces his selection) I'm guessing the most dramatic improvement in the forward half will come from whomever replaces the smalls of last year (Morris/Lennon/Lloyd/Gordon).... Rioli's exciting, but realistically he is unlikely to improve the forwardline in the short-term (or keep Lloyd out on current form)
The middle is confusing... Maric will go backwards and there's no great ruck hope waiting to step in. Cotchin, as good as he is, has atagnated a bit. Will it be more of the same this year, and improvement or a gentle slide down the hill? Are the supporting act (Grigg/KMac/Miles/BEllis) got big improvement in them? Shuffling the deck around the midfield bottom (grigg v townsend v moore v lambert v KMac v Bellis) isn't likelly to have a dramatic change. Big improvement might come from youngers like Menadue and CEllis replacing the older/slower/role players on merit (rather than on potential) but I dont know if that will happen this year.
Anyway, as the kids say TL;dr
- expecting some improvement down back
- expecting more improvement up front
- worried about whats happening in the middle
My guide is based on what I've seen watching the 3 NAB replays.
We have returned to the cheap backwards/sideways dinky kicks coming out of the back half.
We still kick in hope way way too much.
Conca, Morris, Hunt, BEllis are atrocious kicks.
Our forward line is stagnant when the ball is coming in.
I feel Townsend is warning into his position and will be a good addition.
Menadue deserves a position in the back line BEFORE Yarran.
Hampson is soft as butter.
See Vickery's first half vs Port for a clinic on dumb.
Rioli could easily play 10 games this year.
As tempting as it is, Mabz isn't ready.
Moore might work out but I expected more from such a massive unit. Not clean inside. Fumbles too much.
Fwd: Jack, Vickery, Edwards, Rioli/Lloyd, Martin, Lennon
Mids: Maric, Cotch, Miles, Townsend, Lids, CEllis, Kmac
Backs: Rance, Houli, Grimes, Vlaustin, Menadue, Chaplin
We have returned to the cheap backwards/sideways dinky kicks coming out of the back half.
We still kick in hope way way too much.
Conca, Morris, Hunt, BEllis are atrocious kicks.
Our forward line is stagnant when the ball is coming in.
I feel Townsend is warning into his position and will be a good addition.
Menadue deserves a position in the back line BEFORE Yarran.
Hampson is soft as butter.
See Vickery's first half vs Port for a clinic on dumb.
Rioli could easily play 10 games this year.
As tempting as it is, Mabz isn't ready.
Moore might work out but I expected more from such a massive unit. Not clean inside. Fumbles too much.
Fwd: Jack, Vickery, Edwards, Rioli/Lloyd, Martin, Lennon
Mids: Maric, Cotch, Miles, Townsend, Lids, CEllis, Kmac
Backs: Rance, Houli, Grimes, Vlaustin, Menadue, Chaplin
Harry said:
yep.
there's a stench of the same old Handbrake constipation about this group at the moment.
the problem with pre-season is Hardwick gets to indulge his defensive obsessions without being checked by a shocking loss to Melbourne or Geelong to force his hand.
don't worry, we'll right the ship by about round 8 after the players have told Handbrake (again) how they want to play.
I really hate negativity, but I am a tad concerned. I'm not sure where the extra 5-10% we need to contend is gonna come from.
Possible upgrades in Cellis, Menadue and Yarran, over Newman, Morris and whoever; Jack looking awesome; potential in Chol, Markov, and 1 or 2 others.
But Maric is on his last legs with zero backup; we still don't seem to have worked out our best forward structure; on field leadership questionable; midfield depth still untried.
Still more questions than answers.
Possible upgrades in Cellis, Menadue and Yarran, over Newman, Morris and whoever; Jack looking awesome; potential in Chol, Markov, and 1 or 2 others.
But Maric is on his last legs with zero backup; we still don't seem to have worked out our best forward structure; on field leadership questionable; midfield depth still untried.
Still more questions than answers.
