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Trading Cousins? - Poll.
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
OK.....someone enlighten me please.
Second round picks are picks 10-30??? 15-25??? Insert numbers here....---????
Even those of you advocating a trade willingly admit that Cuz is playing great footy.
Most would agree that he is one of our best players currently (at least top 10).
Most would also agree that he brings other qualities to the table, the most significant being leadership.
So what do we achieve by getting rid of him???
Let's say (for arguments sake) that we get a second round pick....
How many second round picks actually make it as AFL players?
How many of our current players are second round picks? How many of them are above Cuz in that top 10?
How many second round picks (in any given draft) will make it to the top?
How many, at their best, will ever be half the player Cuz is now?
I see no reason not to delist or trade about half the Richmond list because regardless of what we get we would most likely not be any worse off, but to trade one of our best players for a draft pick that may never even make it at AFL level makes no sense whatever!
A bird in the hand gentlemen (and ladies)..... A BIRD IN THE HAND!
Second round picks are picks 10-30??? 15-25??? Insert numbers here....---????
Even those of you advocating a trade willingly admit that Cuz is playing great footy.
Most would agree that he is one of our best players currently (at least top 10).
Most would also agree that he brings other qualities to the table, the most significant being leadership.
So what do we achieve by getting rid of him???
Let's say (for arguments sake) that we get a second round pick....
How many second round picks actually make it as AFL players?
How many of our current players are second round picks? How many of them are above Cuz in that top 10?
How many second round picks (in any given draft) will make it to the top?
How many, at their best, will ever be half the player Cuz is now?
I see no reason not to delist or trade about half the Richmond list because regardless of what we get we would most likely not be any worse off, but to trade one of our best players for a draft pick that may never even make it at AFL level makes no sense whatever!
A bird in the hand gentlemen (and ladies)..... A BIRD IN THE HAND!
Liverpool said:
Spot on. And when he retires, hopefully we can keep him as a coach, so his value goes beyond his playing days. That won't happen if we trade him.
From his perspective, he's had huge upheavals and is probably now feeling more relaxed and settled - the media caravan has largely moved on, he knows his colleagues and the routine, etc - would he want to start all over somewhere else, just one year on?
To me, he's made a fantastic effort (in his own game, how he speaks of the club, and how he relates to and influences his team mates, especially the youngies) to repay our faith. We shouldn't look at him as someone we've just fattened up for trade.
Would be madness to trade Cousins - I've never heard anything so stupid. He's been of enormous benefit to our young players and should have future role at the club as an assistant coach.
Hopefully he'll play two more years and then be a coach with us.
Hopefully he'll play two more years and then be a coach with us.
agincourt said:
A bird in the hand for, at most, a couple more years. I could understand not wanting to accept a trade for him if you are expecting us to be right up there in this time but I happen to think success could be a little further off.
Grigg, Urquhart, Hislop, Proud, Renouf, Djerrkura, Edwards, Dawes, Mackenzie, Petterd, Tippett, Jarryd Morton, Ward, Maric, Selwood, Pears, Hinkley, Collier, Otten, Motlop, Whitecross, Jacky, McCarthy, Greenwood, Swift, Ballantyne, Zaharakis, Suban, Redden, Post, McKernan, Beams and Gillies are all guys drafted in the second round over the last 3 years who have had exposure to AFL already and who appear to be promising types.
Wow, even though I was one of the 11% who voted yes I am impressed by the incredible loyalty that Cuz inspires amongst fans. Maybe we should keep him for the membership boost.
I am pretty surprised by the results of the poll too.
Perhaps it's because he played a great game on the weekend?
I am interested if those who are saying no to the trade think he's worth a first rounder? :headscratch
Also if the shoe was on the other foot would Richmond give up a 2nd rounder for Ben because of his leadership?
Perhaps it's because he played a great game on the weekend?
I am interested if those who are saying no to the trade think he's worth a first rounder? :headscratch
Also if the shoe was on the other foot would Richmond give up a 2nd rounder for Ben because of his leadership?
Tigers of Old said:
If you fall off a horse do you forget how to gallop, if you fall off your bike do you forget how to cycle, if the kitchen burns down do you forget how to cook? Benny was the best in class of elite footballers going around a few year ago until he started lining up with some of his mates.
Being out of the game for 2 years and struggling to get over that hamstring at Round 1 were major hurdles to get back in the groove. The bloke may have lost a yard, but has not lost nothing up stairs.
No way! The young guys need someone with experience they can look up to to show them how its done.
The coaches can only do so much. They need someone on the field and on the training paddock that can lead by example.
The coaches can only do so much. They need someone on the field and on the training paddock that can lead by example.
Disco08 said:
Wow. I clearly don't watch enough games cos I've never heard of most of those guys.... :-[
If Edwards, Post and Hislop are the "players" currently sporting Richmond guernseys then I'm glad this is a hypothetical poll!
None of those players will ever be elite or will even be regular starters for the tigers (apologies to Post who is very much a work in progress and MAY turn into a good player....one day).
Of all the others you mentioned there are probably 3 or 4 that would be worth losing Cousins for.....given our history at picking duds I don't like our odds frankly! :
geoffryprettyboy said:
Yeah but he turns 32 next year? Same age as four others who are likely retiring at season's end.
We could pick up a quality youngster who gives us 10 years and 200 games and will play with us in the next premiership.
I am not arguing his value geoffry, I'm simply putting a price on it.
agincourt said:Wow. I clearly don't watch enough games cos I've never heard of most of those guys.... :-[
If Edwards, Post and Hislop are the "players" currently sporting Richmond guernseys then I'm glad this is a hypothetical poll!
None of those players will ever be elite or will even be regular starters for the tigers (apologies to Post who is very much a work in progress and MAY turn into a good player....one day).
Of all the others you mentioned there are probably 3 or 4 that would be worth losing Cousins for.....given our history at picking duds I don't like our odds frankly! :
So you'd rather have Cuz for two years than have the chance at getting someone like Otten, Beams, Tippett, Ward or Pears for 12?
BTW, how can you know that those blokes won't be regular senior players? None of them are older than 20 and all of them have shown something this year.
Disco08 said:
Doesn't mean you stick with the losing hand you have. Why wouldn't you try and get better by getting rid of those who you know aren't up to it?
As for Cousins, if I got a pick inside 20 I would do it but that is a pipe dream. Still think your better off trying to sell one of younger stocks who is at a percieved high point.
As for Richo, I would want a pick inside the first round.
SCOOP said:
Many here clearly think he is worth a 1st rounder.
I wish that they worked for other clubs.
agincourt said:
Thats the issue.
People keep thinking that in the last decent draft, you will be able to trade someone like Schulz for a second round pick. More than ever the rule will be that you have to give something up to get something.
The only players clubs are likely to be interested in at Richmond are Deledio, Cotchin, Foley, Reiwoldt, etc.... and we cannot afford to give up too many of these. This means the ones we can offer will either:
1) have flaws or defects in their game (i.e. Foley's average disposal)
2) be closer to the end than the beginning of their career
Either of these factors reduce the trade value though.
If we want a first round pick, Tuck and a third round will not do it. Likewise a second round pick will require more than Cogs.
Tigers of Old said:
I think some people are underestimating Cousins impact now, and what he offers in the future for our club. The difference at the club is massive, being around at the start of the year, and being there now.
Anyway, you have your opinion and I have mine. I understand how some could look at Ben Cousins and the situation in black and white, but I see it much more than that. I have not seen a better leader at our club in my lifetime, so for me, my opinion would be how can you give away something like that? I am 26, so you are talking at least 15 years of watching footy intensively I have not seen a better leader in the yellow and black.
Impossible to give away!
Footy is a lot more than players running around kicking the footy through the big sticks, and a football club is a complex place. It takes a lot of special ingredients to forge a successful culture and have that settle throughout a club, and I think the main ingredient is leadership. Ben Cousins in my opinion, and it's only my opinion, is helping change the culture of our football club. Many have tried to, he is succeeding.
For those reasons that I know the club lacks, he is an untradable commodity for mine.
His age is insignificant, his qualities are one of a kind.
You talk about West Coast now, well he left on weird terms and I know the club has distanced themselves from him and I am sure he let a lot of those young guys as well as older players down. do not underestimate the impact of that.
We are very fortunate to have him, and even more fortunate he is remaining clean and having an impact for our club. West Coast's loss (no fault of theirs) is our gain. We would be stupid to let that go.
Disco08 said:
But what are the chances??? That's the problem.....those condoning a trade are living this pipe dream where all of a sudden our recruiting department will magically get their act together and pick a good player for once!
We know what we have with Cuz.....we don't know what we would get with a second round pick.
As a gambling man you need to aseess the risk versus the reward, weigh up the odds.....
In my opinion it's just not worth the risk.
P.S Edwards and Hislop would not get a regular start in any other team. Post is still under notice....I like him a little, not a lot, and hope he progresses to be a good player. I haven't seen enough yet to be convinced that he will though.
