Trading Cousins? - Poll.

[Mr Brightside]

Geez if we traded Cuz to the Pies he may well bring them a falg .....do we really want that :'(

 

[btoz_01]

Geez if we traded Cuz to the Pies he may well bring them a falg .....do we really want that :'(

Cuz is overrated whats with this win at all costs attitude? 8)

 

[mb64]

Geez if we traded Cuz to the Pies he may well bring them a falg .....do we really want that :'(

No

 

[Ocker]

I’d never trade anyone who can set the crowd alight like he did today when he turned on the nitro in that punt rd pocket and had a shot for goal – he ended up missing but the electricity he generated could run the Belgrave line for a week. Players like him don’t come round that often.

Agree, was there also, could taste the electricity in the crowd...kick didn't miss by much either.
Cuz also set up the final thrust to win the game.
His value to this young team is priceless - He says 'come with me' and the kids dig it.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Exactly Disco. Fair difference now given that Ben's shown he's on the rooad to recovery.

If Cousin's was offered up I have no doubt whatsoever that he'd generate plenty of interest.

Agree, still say we shouldn't do it though. ;D

 

[mexican_radio]

everything we have done for 27 years has turned to pooh, I say we reverse that trend. i.e have a quality player in the team
just can't believe anyone wants to trade him.

 

[pahoffm]

Cousins has certainly done much better than expected this season.

With that, though, every player has a price.
If another club came with an offer that we couldn't refuse ..........???

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Cousins has certainly done much better than expected this season.

With that, though, every player has a price.
If another club came with an offer that we couldn't refuse ..........???

IMO the only offer you couldn't refuse would be a Top 10 pick and that won't happen

 

[Dyer Disciple]

I chuckle at claims of what Ben's influence will be in the future when I look back and see what the people making the claims said about getting Terry at the time, and how he'd be the saviour of particular players, a great tactician, a great motivator, won't have the boring, negative stuff we copped from Spud. Just examples from some who've been strong in their claims about Ben's likely influence. We can comment as much as we want about the future but that doesn't mean it will eventuate.

Your last sentence is very true, couldn't agree more. What I think you and some others holding similar doubts with you, are missing, is that Cousins is here now. This is not speculation on someone not even at the club yet. As has been stated before, if you talk to players, club officials or around the club you see and hear constant stark impressions Cousins has made on people.

Do I think Ben has some influence? Yeah probably, as do many people involved at the club. Fact is we haven't rocketed up the ladder. We've had a few wins against mostly ordinary teams, and the change of coach influence can't be dismissed there either. He hasn't been getting best on ground votes too often despite claims he's in his prime. Our fitness, which he's said to have a great influence on, is still being questioned.

We can talk all we like about auras and spirits and past performances elsewhere and influences on the future but it's all just words and opinion until it can be measured by on-field success.

A hypothetical question. If Ben wasn't at Richmond this year would our on-field performance have been much worse?

I can't speak for others but in speaking for myself I am certainly not labelling Cousins as any messiah. Had it have been up to me he wouldn't be at the club.

However now he is and he has done all that is asked of him, he is one of us, and is having a massive positive effect from a leadership/mentoring perspective and this should be recognised.

Richmond Football Club is a club that has lacked elite professionals who have achieved success at the highest level for a long time now in nearly every section of the football department. We finally have somone who is having a clear and positive impact on our kids/players and we want to play the draft pick game and get another pick at all costs.

It takes time for these things to manifest, they aren't going to do it overnight. HOWEVER for those who are questioning the short term impact ask some of the players. Someone mentioned asking Gary March and Cameron and co, I've personally had a conversation with March where he was glowing about Ben's effect on our players footy wise.

Apart from Ben Cousins, can someone tell me the last time a player went to a club (and keep in mind we have been a loosing club also) and there have been so many on record testaments on different angles glowing about his affect on the playing group.

I'm not sure I even remember as much being stated about Judd for the season after he was at Carlton by insiders.

I've been critical of Carlton and Essendon for some time now as I don't rate their lists strongly. When people have been scrambling to jump on board them I have been shaking my head, Judd being at Carlton does not assure them success. Just like Cousins at Richmond does not assure as success.

It does improve culture and player development however, and those things are intangibles that you just can't put a value of one player on (the hypothetical 2nd Round Pick).

A hypothetical question of my own: Would people prefer a potential elite development coach on top of existing development efforts we need to improve on or a second round pick that will pick a potential good player on a list we need to improve on.

Both are adding to something we already have; a Development Coach and a existing 2nd Round. What are the odds of a better return? I would say on the Development Coach myself.

It's all about calculated risks to me, like so many things in list management.

 

[Rosy]

What I think you and some others holding similar doubts with you, are missing, is that Cousins is here now. This is not speculation on someone not even at the club yet.

I'm aware he's here now believe it or not. :hihi

 

[Harry]

It's all about calculated risks to me, like so many things in list management.

why does it have to be a calculated risk? This is where we go wrog - we take calculated risks when you don't have to. List management is a numbers game, it's all about doing your homework on the juniors, taking maximum amount of talented kids each and every year covering all areas of the list, putting time and resources into development, and getting games into them. If you do this each and every year for a sustained period of time then there is no other way than up and sustained finals and top 4 appearances. However at tigerland we are obsessed with taking "calculated risks" in an attempt to short cut our way back into finals appearances. This short cut has taken us 27 years to master. calculated risks are the last thing we require and if a pick inside the top 40 came along for ben we have to take it to the bank - no questions asked.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

I'm aware he's here now believe it or not. :hihi

I'm sure you are, my point was you were having a go at other's posts about being wrong about someone COMING to our club, which is a different case to someone AT our club.

While I get the point you were trying to make, it's very different people speculating on someone not at the club yet (which is clearly crystal ball gazing and fantasy land) and people discussing someone at the club (who can be quantified past/current tense).

 

[Dyer Disciple]

why does it have to be a calculated risk? This is where we go wrog - we take calculated risks when you don't have to. List management is a numbers game, it's all about doing your homework on the juniors, taking maximum amount of talented kids each and every year covering all areas of the list, putting time and resources into development, and getting games into them. If you do this each and every year for a sustained period of time then there is no other way than up and sustained finals and top 4 appearances. However at tigerland we are obsessed with taking "calculated risks" in an attempt to short cut our way back into finals appearances. This short cut has taken us 27 years to master. calculated risks are the last thing we require and if a pick inside the top 40 came along for ben we have to take it to the bank - no questions asked.

Respect your difference of opinion, you certainly have one. 9 out of 10 occassions I would agree with you. Though you have taken the entire wrong context of me using "calculated risk", I disagree strongly with you in saying we did such with trading draft picks. Clearly such was not done in those cases. They were decisions that when you looked at the risks should never have been made.

It's easy to point out where RFC has gone wrong draft wise, that's the easy game online.

It's easy to play speculative trade scenarios and upgrade pick scenarios online.

It's easy to kick us for doing things wrong continually for 27 years online.

What's not easy is to understand the balance. I don't profess to have the answers, but I know it's not as simple as trading players based on their age and speculative shelf life.

Not sure if this is a good example but Hawthorn held onto Crawford for a reason, they didn't put him on the trade table or talk him into retirement because they didn't think he would be in their next premiership (keeping in mind they didn't expect to be in a premiership the next year). Do you think a side like Sydney wouldn't have paid a pick inside 40 for Crawford if he was willing to go to them? Do you think pelchen wouldn't want another second round pick?

It's just not that simple.

 

[gustiger12]

Anyone happen to notice Cuz having a quiet chat to Lids after the game. A lot to be said there alone.

 

[gustiger12]

Geez if we traded Cuz to the Pies he may well bring them a falg .....do we really want that :'(

That just ended this argument. ;D

 

[Tiger74]

Geez if we traded Cuz to the Pies he may well bring them a falg .....do we really want that :'(

Maybe a new poll. Would you accept a round 1 pick for Cousins, if it meant knowing the Pies would win a flag?

I for one would be switching to the "keep Cousins" camp on that basis :hihi

 

[Rosy]

I'm sure you are, my point was you were having a go at other's posts about being wrong about someone COMING to our club, which is a different case to someone AT our club.

While I get the point you were trying to make, it's very different people speculating on someone not at the club yet (which is clearly crystal ball gazing and fantasy land) and people discussing someone at the club (who can be quantified past/current tense).

Making comments about what will happen in the future is just as crystal ball gazing and fantasy land stuff. Either way it's speculation about what might be rather than fact. It might happen and then again it just may not.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Making comments about what will happen in the future is just as crystal ball gazing and fantasy land stuff. Either way it's speculation about what might be rather than fact. It might happen and then again it just may not.

We are talking about someone at the club now and the impact they have now (that is not in the future) and we are talking about the benefits of that in the future. So only half of what you are saying is applicable to the discussion in this thread.

Your view is splitting hairs or fairly negative though. Leading organisations around the world whether it be in business or sports don't get dynamic leaders into the organisation, see that they are having an impact on the staff and then state the next year "Well, maybe we should move them on, there are no certainties in the future after all, maybe they will stop having an affect"

The only way I can see sense in that is if you thought Ben has offered the majority of what he can as some of your view have already stated on here. Is that your belief?

 

[Rosy]

We are talking about someone at the club now and the impact they have now (that is not in the future) and we are talking about the benefits of that in the future. So only half of what you are saying is applicable to the discussion in this thread.

Your view is splitting hairs or fairly negative though. Leading organisations around the world whether it be in business or sports don't get dynamic leaders into the organisation, see that they are having an impact on the staff and then state the next year "Well, maybe we should move them on, there are no certainties in the future after all, maybe they will stop having an affect"

I don't know what you're on about to be honest DD.  I've commented a bit about claims of the Cousins legacy in a few years time, rather than present impact.

The only way I can see sense in that is if you thought Ben has offered the majority of what he can as some of your view have already stated on here. Is that your belief?

I can't answer the question because I can't make sense of what you're actually asking me. I haven't talked, as far as I can recall at least, of moving Ben on. If you elaborate, and maybe give examples of what you're referring to I'll have a crack at it.

 

[btoz_01]

Congrats everyone 40+ pages and still going strong :clap