Trading Cousins? - Poll.

[Djevv]

I didn't say they'd learnt all there was to be learnt. I said they'd have learnt a lot. Given the way some of the players talk about him I think this is quite evident. The question is whether the sum of what's left to be taught is worth more than a second rounder. IMO it all depends on the player we pick if we do the trade. Obviously if we end up with someone the quality of Chapman, Mitchell or Montagna then Cousins will have had to have had a very profound effect on the current list to outweigh the importance of 12 years service from a top line player. As I've also already said, I admit it's a double edged sword and that it could all go wrong. I'd just like to see certain posters do the same.

Heh heh if we were guaranteed 12 years service consider the deal done, but what is the average number of games played by, say, a no.35 draft pick I wonder? Anyway this is an interesting thread but I really wonder how realistic the premise is? How would Ben feel if he was shopped around? How would the team take it? Is a second rounder realistic? Senior players like Ben are deserving of respect and are very respected within clubs, as Gaspargate showed, what would the playing group think of such a move? Etc.

Also I expect for it to become a reality, Ben would have to agree, and I doubt he would given how undignified it would be to be shopped around like a side of beef and haggled over. If I were him I'd like to finish my playing days on a positive note and leave a legacy for the future.

OK cool. So why then did you quote a post of mine referring to the unreliability of poll results and suggest that I was "continually depreciating peoples intelligence and understanding of the game"? How exactly is anything I've said in this thread so disrespectful?

I read your posts on the majority being against trading Ben as implying that people who had voted this way had not thought it through or hadn't understood the value of a 2nd rounder, but I see now you were actually saying the majority in a poll such as this doesn't prove the point, which I agree with. So I withdraw that assertion since it obviously wasn't your intention.

 

[TigerForce]

You're cracking me up TF. I did answer the question you asked about my claim of fact and ladder position. You need to learn to differentiate between fact and opinion. Just cos it's not what you wanted to hear doesn't mean I didn't answer your question. Read your question and read my answer. All in order, the only thing I referred to as fact was ladder situation. I'm really not discussing that with you any further.

I wasn't going to bother with you again but you've got me intrigued. What does authority have to do with the price of cheese in China?

You obviously can't keep track of replies. I'm talking about the question I asked on my previous post which I've highlighted below. I can differentiate between fact and opinion thankyou very much. No need for patronising now.
It's just a question I asked about what you meant by 'fact'.

I can't see any sensible discussion from you either.

If you mention Cousins in that paragraph, then there must be a point you're trying to make about him. What is it?

 

[Disco08]

Cheers.

FWIW I don't think Tooheys really presented it as a realistic or detailed hypothetical. I reckon he just thought it was an interesting proposition and a good topic for discussion of list management philosophies in general. I think some people have taken it way too literally (not looking at you here at all).

 

[Rosy]

You obviously can't keep track of replies. I'm talking about the question I asked on my previous post which I've highlighted below.
It's just a question I asked about what you meant by 'fact'.

I had given up. I answered your one about facts and ladder positions and it's futile to continue any further. Your authority comment supports that feeling. I told you what I meant about FACT. I only claimed one FACT.


"Authority wins again" + "No need for patronising" = :rofl

 

[TigerForce]

I had given up. I answered your one about facts and ladder positions and it's futile to continue any further. Your authority comment supports that feeling. I told you what I meant about FACT. I only claimed one FACT.


"Authority wins again" + "No need for patronising" = :rofl

Did I have a question about "facts" & "ladder positions" did I ?

"You need to learn to differentiate between fact & opinion" is patronising. I'm not a kid.

You've got a good way in playing around with other people's comments and questions I must admit.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Don't know if it's been mentined (can't be bothered reading all the posts) but it could easily be argued that ben has had a negative influence on the team going by our results compared to last year.

Absolutely agree Harry.

How do you explain Deledio's going backwards for example? Or self admitted 'slackness'.

Perhaps he simply thought that having Benny on board would make his life easier.

How do you explain the round 1 debacle?

There are most certainly arguements both for and against Ben Cousins recruitment.

 

[Rosy]

Did I have a question about "facts" & "ladder positions" did I ?

I've played a bit of think music and come to the conclusion that, considering I only mentioned one 'fact' and that was in regard to ladder position, the answer resembles yes.

Fact is we haven't rocketed up the ladder.

What's your 'fact' actually based on?

 

[TigerForce]

I've played a bit of think music and come to the conclusion that, considering I only mentioned one 'fact' and that was in regard to ladder position, the answer resembles yes.

I wasn't asking about "ladder positions" .......as you stated. Maybe you should be aware of what words you type.

I just changed my question regarding to your paragraph I quoted, on what point are you making regarding Cousins and the fact we haven't rocketed up the ladder, along with him not receiving more BOG votes?

Reading between the lines, I assume you are indirectly blaming Cousins for us not 'rocketing' up the ladder considering you mention his name regarding BOG votes.

It's my assumption / opinion of what you insinuated.

 

[Tigers of Old]

FWIW I don't think Tooheys really presented it as a realistic or detailed hypothetical. I reckon he just thought it was an interesting proposition and a good topic for discussion of list management philosophies in general. I think some people have taken it way too literally (not looking at you here at all).

I honestly believe that given where we are at that we need to make some ruthless decisions on players to attain draft picks that will grow with the current young group which is showing plenty of potential.

Think of the first half against North for example where Cousins didn't even play.
We need to move towards that direction. Youth, youth, youth.

If it were possible to trade Cuz for a second rounder, absolutely you would do do it with where we are at.

That club's may not do it is not the issue. We should TRY.

 

[Djevv]

Cheers.

FWIW I don't think Tooheys really presented it as a realistic or detailed hypothetical. I reckon he just thought it was an interesting proposition and a good topic for discussion of list management philosophies in general. I think some people have taken it way too literally (not looking at you here at all).

I'm just finding it increasingly confusing. And now people are trying to pin our ladder position on Ben. I think they are just taking the *smile* but one can never be sure .

Anyway I have cast my vote and given my opinion so I am going to wig out of this thread. Cheers .

 

[Rosy]

And now people are trying to pin our ladder position on Ben. I think they are just taking the p!ss but one can never be sure .

Can you name names, or post links, so I can read how people are pinning our ladder position on Ben please djevv.

 

[btoz_01]

Don't know if it's been mentined (can't be bothered reading all the posts) but it could easily be argued that ben has had a negative influence on the team going by our results compared to last year.

Yes its all Bennys fault that we didnt play finals under Wally as well.
Ben must be sacked enough of this trade him thats too good for him. Sack Ben Now!

 

[Scoop]

I honestly believe that given where we are at that we need to make some ruthless decisions on players to attain draft picks that will grow with the current young group which is showing plenty of potential.

Think of the first half against North for example where Cousins didn't even play.
We need to move towards that direction. Youth, youth, youth.

If it were possible to trade Cuz for a second rounder, absolutely you would do do it with where we are at.

That club's may not do it is not the issue. We should TRY.

Don't disagree ToO. But while we are still chock full of blokes who can't kick and constantly pick the wrong choice with the ball in there hands we need to keep those who do the right thing.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Ben must be sacked enough of this trade him thats too good for him. Sack Ben Now!

Why would we sack him whilst he is worth something?

Of course if no one bites he stays but unless you're simply happy with watch a 32 year old former weagles champion run around for his last season or so in a floundering Richmond side, we should be looking to try and upgrade to a quality junior who might replace him.

 

[Djevv]

Can you name names, or post links, so I can read how people are pinning our ladder position on Ben please djevv.

Are you serious?

Harry and Oldie's comments on the last page. Thats how I read what they said anyway. I'm fairly sure they weren't serious either :hihi.

I think you need to step back and take a deep breath Rosy. When I post I often skim read and then I post what I think. I often generalise and I rarely research. I post opinions which I sometimes back with facts. I also read and try to comprehend what a poster is trying to say and frequently read between the lines. If I make an error I will admit it as well. But at the end of the day I don't put huge amounts of thought into everything I say and I'm here mainly for fun and relaxation and to hear the latest on the mighty Tigers.

 

[Streak]

I will not be repyling further to posts questioning everthing I say

What? :hihi

 

[Rosy]

Are you serious?

I think you need to step back and take a deep breath Rosy. When I post I often skim read and then I post what I think. I often generalise and I rarely research.

Are you asking am I serious and saying I need to step back and take a deep breath because I asked you for further info so I can see what you're referring to?  That would be very precious.  Discussion on a forum isn't just one way and surely it's reasonable to try and understand what someone is saying and how they formed their opinions, especially when claims are attributed to other posters.

Twice on this thread I've asked you to clarify comments you've made about what you've claimed others have said and both times there has seemingly been no evidence to support them.  You've done it to before me in private too. 

Neither of the examples you gave have mentioned ladder position. Maybe Harry and ToO were pinning ladder position on Ben, I wouldn't have a clue, but they certainly didn't say so and it could have meant many things.  ToO did give examples that mentioned the first round debacle and Lids' slackness but certainly didn't mention our ladder position.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

Why would we sack him whilst he is worth something?

Of course if no one bites he stays but unless you're simply happy with watch a 32 year old former weagles champion run around for his last season or so in a floundering Richmond side, we should be looking to try and upgrade to a quality junior who might replace him.

So you expect us to give up Cuz for a quality kid?Good luck with that if you think any other club would want to give up that quality kid for the very same reason your trying to flog off Cousin,s.

 

[jb03]

Another way to look at this question is to ask yourself whether in the 2008 draft you would have preferred a second round draft choice or the last choice in the PSD.

Trading the last choice in the PSD for a second round draft choice would be pretty astute list management.

 

[mb64]

So you expect us to give up Cuz for a quality kid?Good luck with that if you think any other club would want to give up that quality kid for the very same reason your trying to flog off Cousin,s.

Exactly