Trading Cousins? - Poll.

[rockstar_tiger]

Also majority of fans did not want Cousins at all because they thought he'd destroy our culture 9 months ago... lol... and 'the majority' were wrong then too.

So I have to agree with Disco that 'majority rules' is a terrible argument. Unless you're talking about players or people with expert opinion, the opinion of supporters are not usually a perfect sign for sound logic.

 

[Rosy]

Also majority of fans did not want Cousins at all because they thought he'd destroy our culture 9 months ago... lol...

How do you form the conclusion that the majority of fans didn't want Cousins? I thought there was massive support for getting Ben and the club even alluded to bowing to their pressure.

 

[btoz_01]

How do you form the conclusion that the majority of fans didn't want Cousins? I thought there was massive support for getting Ben and the club even alluded to bowing to their pressure.

Hope this link works it should take you to the original poll .... 86.6% wanted Cuz at the time.
http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=34413.0

 

[Baloo]

I thought there was massive support for getting Ben and the club even alluded to bowing to their pressure.

Agree with the massive support at the end, but I don't recall the club suggestion it was people power that changed their mind.

 

[Disco08]

Im amazed with your ability to quote poll results (Jesus, Galileo and now Wally) but the is the earth square or round question proved too difficult??

No. Like I said mate, if you want to play games find yourself another friend to play with.

 

[Rosy]

Hope this link works it should take you to the original poll .... 86.6% wanted Cuz at the time.
http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=34413.0

Thanks for the link btoz but a PRE poll doesn't exactly equate to a "majority of fans".

 

[btoz_01]

No. Like I said mate, if you want to play games find yourself another friend to play with.

Youre just because I got the Cuz stats on here before you did. 8)

Thanks for the link btoz but a PRE poll doesn't exactly equate to a "majority of fans".

Come on Rosy youre selling this site short. Its a decent representaion of fans.

 

[rockstar_tiger]

Once it became clear than Ben was a possibility of coming, int eh week leading up to the PSD, supporters jumped on the bandwagon.

But a month beforehand - when Collingwood etc were favourites to get him and supporters weren't excited he'd be at Richmond, it was a different story.

I think once everyone realised Ben was realistically a good chance to become a Tiger (everyone else ruled him out) supporters then got excited without thinking. These supporters didn't want Ben because they thought he would change our culture, most of us got excited at the idea of getting Cousins for free right before the PSD. I was talking about before this wave of excitement came over them (edit: which was mindless and asn't backed up with strong arguments).

There was a time when majority thought he was more harm than good, now majority wouldn't even trade him for a 2nd round pick!

 

[Scoop]

Meh, lot of people on this thread who refuse to listen to anyone else and justing looking to create issues.

The second round pick will never be offered.

 

[TigerForce]

Not sure if I've read the replies you refer to. Not that interested.

Is it too hard to find reply #517 ?? I can answer your question but you're not that interested in answering mine??

Well here it is again.

Do I think Ben has some influence? Yeah probably, as do many people involved at the club. Fact is we haven't rocketed up the ladder. We've had a few wins against mostly ordinary teams, and the change of coach influence can't be dismissed there either. He hasn't been getting best on ground votes too often despite claims he's in his prime. Our fitness, which he's said to have a great influence on, is still being questioned.

Rosy, explain what you mean by that statement. What's your 'fact' actually based on?

You mention that Ben has some influence, just like other 'people' at the club. "Fact that we haven't 'rocketed' up the ladder" to me sounds as if Cousins was supposed to be a bigger influence in us winning a lot of games (rocketed) but hasn't, and you also mention he wasn't getting BOG votes. A player who performs well in a game doesn't always get BOG votes.

 

[Rosy]

Agree with the massive support at the end, but I don't recall the club suggestion it was people power that changed their mind.

I didn't bother checking the exact wording Baloo but the supporters opinion was certainly given consideration in the decision.

Perhaps the most influential body, finally, was that most volatile and unforgiving force: the Tiger army, which has sacked coaches and overturned administrations in the past. The fans, by a margin of at least five-to-one, were for Cousins, who will pack the MCG for the club's round one home game against Carlton.

"Supporters were a major consideration," March said. "There's a compelling argument that this was in the best interests of the unity of the entire football club."

http://www.realfooty.com.au/articles/2008/12/16/1229189623674.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

 

[Rosy]

Is it too hard to find reply #517 ??  I can answer your question but you're not that interested in answering mine??

Well here it is again. 

Rosy, explain what you mean by that statement.  What's your 'fact' actually based on?

Haha are you for real asking what my 'fact' that "we haven't exactly rocketed up the ladder" is based on.  Clue- Just look at the ladder.

 

[Disco08]

Surely the point of the poll is which is of greater value to the club? Most avid Richmond supporters voted no and like me perhaps they felt they had good reason to. You cannot assume that supporters don't understand the value of a second rounder simply because they disagree with you. I simply believe the leadership qualities which he exhibits coupled with his playing ability is of more value. I also think that to say the mids have learnt all they can from him in 8 months is drawing a very long bow. How many apprenticeships last only 1 year?

I didn't say they'd learnt all there was to be learnt. I said they'd have learnt a lot. Given the way some of the players talk about him I think this is quite evident. The question is whether the sum of what's left to be taught is worth more than a second rounder. IMO it all depends on the player we pick if we do the trade. Obviously if we end up with someone the quality of Chapman, Mitchell or Montagna then Cousins will have had to have had a very profound effect on the current list to outweigh the importance of 12 years service from a top line player. As I've also already said, I admit it's a double edged sword and that it could all go wrong. I'd just like to see certain posters do the same.

I agree the poll proves nothing about which is the better option. I'm not even sure such a thing is provable, its all just opinion and a hypothetical scenario. At the end of the day only CCs opinion counts.

OK cool. So why then did you quote a post of mine referring to the unreliability of poll results and suggest that I was "continually depreciating peoples intelligence and understanding of the game"? How exactly is anything I've said in this thread so disrespectful?

Youre just because I got the Cuz stats on here before you did. 8)

Not sure what this one's supposed to mean, but I'm not angry at you at all.

 

[TigerForce]

Haha are you for real asking what my 'fact' that "we haven't exactly rocketed up the ladder" is based on. Clue- Just look at the ladder.

Nice cop out. You mentioned Cousins in your comments and now refuse to admit it with an answer like that.

 

[Rosy]

I didn't refuse to admit anything.  I answered your question about my fact in regard to us not rocketing up the ladder which is the only thing I claimed as FACT. Not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse TF but sensible discussion seems a lost cause.  I'll leave you to it.

 

[TigerForce]

I didn't refuse to admit anything. I answered your question about my fact in regard to us not rocketing up the ladder which is the only thing I claimed as FACT. Not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse TF but sensible discussion seems a lost cause. I'll leave you to it.

I can't see any sensible discussion from you either.

If you mention Cousins in that paragraph, then there must be a point you're trying to make about him. What is it?

 

[Harry]

Don't know if it's been mentined (can't be bothered reading all the posts) but it could easily be argued that ben has had a negative influence on the team going by our results compared to last year.

 

[TigerForce]

I didn't refuse to admit anything. I answered your question about my fact in regard to us not rocketing up the ladder which is the only thing I claimed as FACT. Not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse TF but sensible discussion seems a lost cause. I'll leave you to it.

I can't see any sensible discussion from you either.

If you mention Cousins in that paragraph, then there must be a point you're trying to make about him. What is it?

Is this what you call a discussion Rosy? I ask a simple question from comments you made but you refuse to answer?

Looks like authority wins again.

 

[Rosy]

Is this what you call a discussion Rosy?  I ask a simple question from comments you made but you refuse to answer?

Looks like authority wins again.

You're cracking me up TF.  I did answer the question you asked about my claim of fact and ladder position.  You need to learn to differentiate between fact and opinion.  Just cos it's not what you wanted to hear doesn't mean I didn't answer your question.  Read your question and read my answer.  All in order, the only thing I referred to as fact was ladder situation.  I'm really not discussing that with you any further. 

I wasn't going to bother with you again but you've got me intrigued.  What does authority have to do with the price of cheese in China?

 

[Streak]

What does authority have to do with the price of cheese in China?

Quite a lot given China is a communist state :hihi

Sorry, couldn't resist. Please leave me out of this debate