Trading Cousins? - Poll.

[TigerForce]

www.pro-stats.com.au

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_players?tid=112&sby=9

Exactly the same players I mentioned.

 

[Djevv]

If we're rebuilding I'd take as many second round picks as other clubs were willing to trade for.

Yeah we are rebuilding but where are we in the rebuild? I think we are well along into it and our future core young guns need training in what it takes to be the very best. Trade agressively for extra picks by all means but we need to be astute about whom we trade and what other qualities they bring to the club.

 

[Rosy]

That seems to me to be what you and others are saying, trade Ben for an extra ticket in the lottery,

As with the others who've made false claims about me on this thread I'll ask you to post a link to where I've said that.  They've refused to oblige and I suspect you won't be able to either because unless I have Alzheimers and have forgotten I'm confident I haven't said that at all.

 

[WesternTiger]

Yeah we are rebuilding but where are we in the rebuild? I think we are well along into it and our future core young guns need training in what it takes to be the very best. Trade agressively for extra picks by all means but we need to be astute about whom we trade and what other qualities they bring to the club.

That is the question D. I recall even claw commented at the start of the 2009 season that our structure was about right now we needed to up grade.

 

[Disco08]

Yeah we are rebuilding but where are we in the rebuild? I think we are well along into it and our future core young guns need training in what it takes to be the very best. Trade agressively for extra picks by all means but we need to be astute about whom we trade and what other qualities they bring to the club.

Unless you think that Cousins' influence will still be having an effect when we're in a position to challenge why would it even be a consideration? If our players need more direction I reckon we should get coaches that can provide it. Are the intangibles we're talking about here unique to Ben or are there other people that can do the same thing?

I think we're right at the start of our rebuild. We have a decent core group of 20-23 year olds to build upon but our depth is horrendous.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_players?tid=112&sby=9

Exactly the same players I mentioned.

Great. If there's a decent deal on the table for any of them I'd take it.

 

[TigerForce]

Great. If there's a decent deal on the table for any of them I'd take it.

Good. At least you see both ways.

I'd rather go by each player's value to our next 3-5 years rather than what age they are (as you mentioned over 28's only) when it comes to trading.

You said we're at the start of a rebuild and we have a core of talented kids now (who are learning from Cuz), and this is why we DON'T need a 2nd round pick at Cuz's expense. Build the foundation with Cuz now and start scavenging for as many picks as possible in 2 years time.

 

[Freezer]

Unless you think that Cousins' influence will still be having an effect when we're in a position to challenge why would it even be a consideration? If our players need more direction I reckon we should get coaches that can provide it. Are the intangibles we're talking about here unique to Ben or are there other people that can do the same thing?

Coaches can coach all they want. Having someone showing you how it should be done is much more effective (IMO of course!)

 

[Disco08]

I think coaches do show their players what to do.

Good. At least you see both ways.

I'd rather go by each player's value to our next 3-5 years rather than what age they are (as you mentioned over 28's only) when it comes to trading.

You said we're at the start of a rebuild and we have a core of talented kids now (who are learning from Cuz), and this is why we DON'T need a 2nd round pick at Cuz's expense. Build the foundation with Cuz now and start scavenging for as many picks as possible in 2 years time.

Makes no sense at all. Unless we rebuild now we'll have no one to play alongside the guys Cousin's is teaching before they're all into their twilight years. We need as many quality kids reaching their peaks while the likes of Deledio and Tambling are still in theirs. That means getting them this year or next at the latest.

 

[TigerForce]

I think coaches do show their players what to do.

Makes no sense at all. Unless we rebuild now we'll have no one to play alongside the guys Cousin's is teaching before they're all into their twilight years. We need as many quality kids reaching their peaks while the likes of Deledio and Tambling are still in theirs. That means getting them this year or next at the latest.

I said go for the picks in 2 years time when our current group of 20-23 are at their peak (mid 20s) not twilight.

Rebuild now with Cuz and start building up our picks in 2 years time (2012) when Cuz is gone and we have a solid foundation (something we've never had before) of talented kids at mid-20s age group. Whichever of those kids we don't need, we can trade (from 2013 onwards) and they'd be more valuable than any mid-20s peak player we've had in the past years.

 

[bringbakflemmo]

Why would we get rid of Cuz who is a premiership player, captain of a successful side and a Brownlow Medallist ?
He knows what success is.
We have played finals twice in 26 years so there is a history of failure.
Let's keep successful people at the club to try and instil their knowledge into our players.
Cuz should be very useful for an off field role when he retires from Tigerland.
Stupid idea to think about trading him.

 

[TIGEREXTRA]

CUZ is a GUN! We must keep him and let he continue to lead the kids to proper professionalism.

This bloke is a breath of fresh air and I am sure that he will feel like he owes it to the RFC to finish his career here after we were the ONLY club to give a chance back in the AFL.

 

[Freezer]

I think coaches do show their players what to do.

How? On a whiteboard?

 

[Disco08]

They don't train on footy fields anymore?

I said go for the picks in 2 years time when our current group of 20-23 are at their peak (mid 20s) not twilight.

You expect 17/18 year olds to come in and contribute at a high level straight away? If you pick them in 2 years they'll take 4 or 5 years to develop, just like players have done for years and years. By the times they're producing their best Deledio and Tambling will be well into their twilight.

Rebuild now with Cuz and start building up our picks in 2 years time (2012) when Cuz is gone and we have a solid foundation (something we've never had before) of talented kids at mid-20s age group. Whichever of those kids we don't need, we can trade (from 2013 onwards) and they'd be more valuable than any mid-20s peak player we've had in the past years.

How are we supposed to rebuild now when we have the minimum amount of picks? Unless we trade into some decent picks you can't call it a rebuild. Well, I suppose you can but rebuilding with consecutive picks in the 80's isn't exactly a proven method for building a solid list.

 

[the claw]

Yeah we are rebuilding but where are we in the rebuild? I think we are well along into it and our future core young guns need training in what it takes to be the very best. Trade agressively for extra picks by all means but we need to be astute about whom we trade and what other qualities they bring to the club.

thats the key question where is the list at and where will players like deledio cotchin cousins be when the club is ready to stake a claim at top 4 status. if we ever stake a claim.

ive said a few times on other threads there is also a downside to go along with the upside of having cousins. im not going into it all again im sick and tired of the roundabout. we either learn from successful sides and our own past and become competetive or we dont and we are doomed to wallow in mediocrity forever. we should have processes in place and i would hope the club would not be silly enough to knock back valuable draft picks for over 30 yr olds.

the real question is two yrs of cousins or hopefully 10 to 15 yrs from the second rounder. yep theres risk but like everything in footy theres a risk to me for a club where we are at its a matter of weighing up the potential LONG TERM benefits

claw has been on here talking about processes for a long time now, processes that are written in stone and stand you in good stead not just this yr but every yr.

to me there is only one situation where claw would not accept a 2nd rnd pick for a player turning 31 or more and that is if the premiership clock was ticking. unfortunately for us we are at about 2 or 4 on the premiership clock and it is highly likely cousins wont be playing in any finals at this club and will be retired in 2 yrs time.

 

[TigerForce]

You expect 17/18 year olds to come in and contribute at a high level straight away? If you pick them in 2 years they'll take 4 or 5 years to develop, just like players have done for years and years. By the times they're producing their best Deledio and Tambling will be well into their twilight.

How are we supposed to rebuild now when we have the minimum amount of picks? Unless we trade into some decent picks you can't call it a rebuild. Well, I suppose you can but rebuilding with consecutive picks in the 80's isn't exactly a proven method for building a solid list.

I'm sure some or most players can take less than 4 years to develop especially the smart ones (Lids, Bling, Chimp, Jack etc...) and especially with a better coach around. We've got enough 'core' players to use now, we won't be a top 8 side for about 2 years and we have to accept the fact of losing games until these players develop us into a top side. Other picks will come as long as we trade every season. We've rarely ever traded enough before. Only gaining 80's picks is going a bit too far.

 

[Freezer]

They don't train on footy fields anymore?

Ah... they stand in the middle and point.

By show, I mean lead by example. By actions. By efforts. By repeatedly putting your body on the line. Coaches can't do that. They can expain the theory, but having someone put that theory into practice in a game as an example to others is a million times more valuable than any training session.

 

[Disco08]

Geez, a million times? It's a wonder anyone employs more than one gameday coach then. Haven't our players already seen Cousins do these things in games this year? How many times do they need to see it before they eventually emulate it? Can't they learn this stuff from playing against great players to an extent also?

I'm sure some or most players can take less than 4 years to develop especially the smart ones (Lids, Bling, Chimp, Jack etc...) and especially with a better coach around. We've got enough 'core' players to use now, we won't be a top 8 side for about 2 years and we have to accept the fact of losing games until these players develop us into a top side. Other picks will come as long as we trade every season. We've rarely ever traded enough before. Only gaining 80's picks is going a bit too far.

Tambling is the ultimate example of how long a player takes to develop. If you want more quality to play along side him and Deledio and any of our other guys that are 22 already you need to draft them now or next year at the latest. If you draft them a year or two before you expect them to contribute you'll end up with what we have now - a very young team that is, for the most part, uncompetitive.

 

[TigerForce]

the real question is two yrs of cousins or hopefully 10 to 15 yrs from the second rounder. yep theres risk but like everything in footy theres a risk to me for a club where we are at its a matter of weighing up the potential LONG TERM benefits

I can't understand how just ONE pick would be so necessary to the expense of a player adding rare value to the club now.

claw has been on here talking about processes for a long time now, processes that are written in stone and stand you in good stead not just this yr but every yr.

What Cuz's doing now is probably some informal process to develop our kids knowledge.

to me there is only one situation where claw would not accept a 2nd rnd pick for a player turning 31 or more and that is if the premiership clock was ticking. unfortunately for us we are at about 2 or 4 on the premiership clock and it is highly likely cousins wont be playing in any finals at this club and will be retired in 2 yrs time.

If the majority of our team are able to win a premiership, what influence would Cuz have anyway? He wouldn't be the matchwinner. If our kids became top players into their peak and were able to win a flag, then I'd trade Cuz for a 2nd round pick because our players would be skilful to do it themselves.

 

[TigerForce]

Tambling is the ultimate example of how long a player takes to develop. If you want more quality to play along side him and Deledio and any of our other guys that are 22 already you need to draft them now or next year at the latest. If you draft them a year or two before you expect them to contribute you'll end up with what we have now - a very young team that is, for the most part, uncompetitive.

You can't just use Tambling as the perfect example. The others I mentioned are the majority.

Have we been uncompetitive in the last few games where Cuz's influence (and Jade's) on players have shown us something better than what Wallace provided in 4 years?

Yeah, were gonna lose games, win games but that's the nature of football until our core group of players click and become a top 8 side.

 

[Disco08]

The vast majority of players don't produce their best form for at least 4 years after being drafted. I could give you some examples but you're just going to have to take my word for it.

Anyway TF, if you think our current group of 18-23 year olds are good enough to mature into a consistent finals contender without major additions to the list, good for you. I wish I could share your enthusiasm.