Trading Cousins? - Poll.

[TigerForce]

Fine, so you're in the "keep him for his intangibles" camp. That's good as long as you recognise that by turning down a trade you also take take the risk of giving up a future star. As I said, there really is no right or wrong.

Yep there's no right or wrong.

A future star is probably one or a few kids we already have now, so why sell something that was cheap & valuable now for something you can pick up later in time when it's more necessary.

Cuz will teach our kids now, and in a few years time, they will have the 'Cuz' knowledge and skill to teach other kids that we draft.

 

[Disco08]

When is a star "more necessary"?

Like I've already said, I'd hope that some of our quality kids have already picked up enough from Cousins to become teachers themselves.

 

[Scoop]

Another point on Cousins, how many people do we have right now that can replace his role? For all the talk of anti tanking, isn't getting rid of Cousins going to make the side much worse? He plays a brand of football that we should be trying to encourage. Run, block, team first football. For years we have had a bunch of selfish me first footballers who play for themselves and are not willing to do any thing for the group. In this year alone I have seen Cousins lay more blocks then anyone else in the last 10 years.

And now that we have someone who can change a culture of club, a culture that has been flea ridden for 25 years, the fundamental way that the team goes about it's football, displays the type of leadership that we have missed for so long, a bloke that plays the game the way it should be and some want to get rid of him for a pick around 30? Geez, some things just cannot be measured by picks.

 

[BrisTiger24]

Another point on Cousins, how many people do we have right now that can replace his role? For all the talk of anti tanking, isn't getting rid of Cousins going to make the side much worse? He plays a brand of football that we should be trying to encourage. Run, block, team first football. For years we have had a bunch of selfish me first footballers who play for themselves and are not willing to do any thing for the group. In this year alone I have seen Cousins lay more blocks then anyone else in the last 10 years.

And now that we have someone who can change a culture of club, a culture that has been flea ridden for 25 years, the fundamental way that the team goes about it's football, displays the type of leadership that we have missed for so long, a bloke that plays the game the way it should be and some want to get rid of him for a pick around 30? Geez, some things just cannot be measured by picks.

Exceptional post Scoop...spot on IMO :clap

 

[TigerForce]

When is a star "more necessary"?

Like I've already said, I'd hope that some of our quality kids have already picked up enough from Cousins to become teachers themselves.

Like I said we might have some future stars now, so why assume this 2nd round pick will be a 'star' as you mentioned.

I don't think 10 games or half a season from Cuz are enough for our kids to learn from him. They need to go through a pre-season or two with Cuz (and new coaches) until they've finally learnt everything.

 

[Disco08]

Another point on Cousins, how many people do we have right now that can replace his role? For all the talk of anti tanking, isn't getting rid of Cousins going to make the side much worse? He plays a brand of football that we should be trying to encourage. Run, block, team first football. For years we have had a bunch of selfish me first footballers who play for themselves and are not willing to do any thing for the group. In this year alone I have seen Cousins lay more blocks then anyone else in the last 10 years.

And now that we have someone who can change a culture of club, a culture that has been flea ridden for 25 years, the fundamental way that the team goes about it's football, displays the type of leadership that we have missed for so long, a bloke that plays the game the way it should be and some want to get rid of him for a pick around 30? Geez, some things just cannot be measured by picks.

So for those of us that might like to see a young team played and development put very much before results (the picks we get from this will also help) trading Cousins could actually be seen as a requisite?

Like I said we might have some future stars now, so why assume this 2nd round pick will be a 'star' as you mentioned.

I don't think 10 games or half a season from Cuz are enough for our kids to learn from him. They need to go through a pre-season or two with Cuz (and new coaches) until they've finally learnt everything.

I didn't assume anyone will be a star.

As far as how long Cuz needs to pass on his knowledge, no one can really know that. We can only really speculate.

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

No. When I weigh up all the pros and cons, it is a no brainer. Keep him.

However...

According to Craig Cameron in the 'Fighting Tiger' which came in yesterday's mail, the club 'expects' to have more than the usual number of draft picks.

So obviously whilst I doubt it's Cousins, we obviously have some trades in mind to get them. Presumably big trades of players with currency.

I wonder who?

 

[TigerMasochist]

*smile*! Sixteen pages on trading Cuz for a improbable hypothetical second round pick.
Didn't want him when we signed him.
Have watched his efforts with interest this year.
His form has surprised me, I didn't think he could get anywhere near back to his previous capability.
The one thing about Cuz that is priceless is his onfield leadership / STRUT. There's been very little pig headed, smart arsed, figjam about the onfield tigers for a hell of a long time, and with good reason.
The moth eaten old Tiges have been belted from pillar to post for a hell of a long long time and it shows onfield.
Players like Jaaack, Browneye, Nacho, Cotch, Jacko, Snakey Jakey, Hissa and Laceout are probably the only ones who have a bit of upfront stink about them, most of the rest just try to go about their business unobtrusively.
If we're going to be losing most of our more senior players at seasons end we might be best served by hanging on to Cuz for another season.
Simmo, Petts, Cogs, Browneye, Richo, Bowdo, are in the twilight zone, there's decisions to be made at seasons end. Toad's already gone, a few fringies may also go.
Not sure we should be getting rid of someone who knows what the serious winning looks like.

 

[TigerForce]

As far as how long Cuz needs to pass on his knowledge, no one can really know that. We can only really speculate.

The point is that even if he does a hammy and rarely plays again, he still remains with us and we can use his skills, knowledge and leadership off-field.

I'd be happy even if he suddenly decides to retire from playing and remains with us to build our youth.

This bloke's credentials are too important to give away especially in our current situation.

If we improved and became a regular finals contender under Wallace, and we decided to give Cuz a chance to play footy again, then I'd trade him for a 2nd round pick as he wouldn't be too important for us considering our players have developed great skills and leadership to play in finals consistently.

 

[Ian4]

this is a bloody good thread. i just read 17 pages of good, healthy debate with a lot of good opinions.

Geez I have been one of Cousins must ardent admirers and supported him coming to the club from day dot but to knock back a second rounder for a 31 year old (hypothetically) is nonsense. The trade should be done in a heart beat.

completely agree.

Those who want to trade Cousin's have in the majority been opposed to him coming in the first place.

hold on a sec... I’m a huge cuz fan. I wanted him picked up last year and he has turned into one of my favourite players.

I also agree with the points about his leadership at the club (everyone knows my opinion of our current skipper). I would love to see cuz play at Richmond for another 2-3 years, but if we were offered a 2nd rounder for him, this is a no brainer… in our current position, we would have to take the deal, no ifs or buts. I voted yes.

 

[TigerForce]

hold on a sec... I’m a huge cuz fan. I wanted him picked up last year and he has turned into one of my favourite players.

I also agree with the points about his leadership at the club (everyone knows my opinion of our current skipper). I would love to see cuz play at Richmond for another 2-3 years, but if we were offered a 2nd rounder for him, this is a no brainer… in our current position, we would have to take the deal, no ifs or buts. I voted yes.

And then continue using Newman's leadership skills?

 

[Disco08]

Cotchin, Tambling, Deledio, Riewoldt and a couple of others all need to start making this their thing. Cousins isn't going to be there very long either way.

 

[Ian4]

And then continue using Newman's leadership skills?

thats a debate for another thread :angel:

 

[ILuvLids]

I wouldn't consider trading Cousins. He is playing some fantastic footy and is getting better with each game. I can't wait to see what he can do after he gets a full pre-season under is belt. What Ben has done off the field and on the field with the playing group and younger players has been very helpful. I would hope to have Ben around for a few more seasons.

 

[Brettstigers]

No. I also worry about the impact on Delidio and Cotchin. Cousins gives them a reason to be at Richmond and not at the Gold Coast for example on a super deal. Over the next year or two having reasons for our midfield to stay together will be very important. There was an article earlier this year penned by Delidio which read like an impassioned plea for a new coach not to retire Cousins.

Look at it another way - things are improving - Cousins has done more than gather his own touches.

And another way, has anyone else thought that after being discarded by West Coast, unlike normal champions he may not necessarily be allowed back - he is therefore open to Richmond as a midfield coach or coaching assistant when he retires. I think he is proving his value in this capacity right now. A possibility.

 

[Shauny83]

cousins has what no other richmond player has had in the past 20 years. keep him.

 

[Liverpool]

No. I also worry about the impact on Delidio and Cotchin. Cousins gives them a reason to be at Richmond and not at the Gold Coast for example on a super deal. Over the next year or two having reasons for our midfield to stay together will be very important. There was an article earlier this year penned by Delidio which read like an impassioned plea for a new coach not to retire Cousins.

Look at it another way - things are improving - Cousins has done more than gather his own touches.

And another way, has anyone else thought that after being discarded by West Coast, unlike normal champions he may not necessarily be allowed back - he is therefore open to Richmond as a midfield coach or coaching assistant when he retires. I think he is proving his value in this capacity right now. A possibility.

Brett,
Pretty much what I said a few pages back.
If he is keen to stay in footy after his playing days are over and the club are keen to have him in some sort of role, like mentoring, coaching, or developing.....then why not let him play out his days at Richmond and help the kids coming through (like R.Harvey did at St.Kilda towards the end and Crwaford did at Hawthorn).

I really can't fathom why a club like Richmond has supporters wanting to see one of their better players this season traded for a pick in the lottery....all for the "future".....yet we are a club that hasn't had someone like Cousins so the young players can learn from him, which is one of the main reasons we have had mediocrity for such a long time.

Luckily, there is only a very small percentage of people on this forum who want to trade Cousins so there is hope for some of the posters on this forum after all.

 

[GoodOne]

All of a sudden we see Cuz get into form and then we think about trading him for a 2nd round pick.

Well you didnt think we'd get a 2nd round pick if he was on the injury list again with a twanged hammy and shooting drugs to ease the pain did you?

 

[GoodOne]

We already have a good....no make that GREAT.....player who will give more to this club in the next 1 or 2 years than 90% of the second round draft picks ever will!

This is purely your opinion. You're telling me only 10% of second draft picks will go on to play a successful and long career? Hmmm

.....and I'll ask you, what makes you so confident we have a quite high chance of getting a good player when our recruiting dept has consistently let us down, year after year, not to mention our abysmal record of player (non)-development.

Well thats the exact point isn't it? We can't rest our future success on one exceptionally talented player at the end of his career. We need our recruiting department to have the ability to pick our future. Look at the clubs who have had success. Amazingly its been their ability to use as many of their draft picks wisely that has helped create their success.

I think the chances are actually a lot higher that any player we picked up in the second round would more than likely never be half the player Cuz is now. For every good (let alone top grade) player gained as a second pick there are 3 or 4 who are at best average and at worst complete duds....and Richmond has a proven track record at picking duds! :hihi

I'm still not getting the drift here. Its not about whether a player will be half the player Cuz is. Finding someone of that quality is very hard. But the point is he ONLY has a little playing time left. Sure if Cousins was 25 or 26, as others have mentioned, you wouldnt trade him. The argument is not really whether Cousins is a better player than what we would pick up in the draft, its about whether what Cousins can give in terms of the growth of other players outweighs the potential drafting of a very good 10 year player as a 2nd rounder, admittedly with the risk of them becoming a failure. Its called playing the percentages

 

[sportshow]

what a rediculous thread