Trading Cousins? - Poll.

[GoodOne]

But what are the chances??? That's the problem.....those condoning a trade are living this pipe dream where all of a sudden our recruiting department will magically get their act together and pick a good player for once!

This is a ridiculous argument. What are the chances of getting a good player as a 2nd rounder? I'd say damn high actually. But regardless your premise is that because you are unsure of your chances of picking up a good player, you shouldnt do it. So if you don't do it, you have NO chance of picking up a good player. Trading Cousins at his age for a high 2nd rounder would be an easy decision. The point is no-one would offer a 2nd rounder, and we know why.

Cousins would be great for us if we were pushing for a premiership, but we aint. His life expectancy is maybe one or two more years. Cousins will be with us for that time I have no doubt, but most if not all teams in Richmond's position would trade Cousins for a 2nd rounder, especially considering he is not a lifetime player of the Tigers (cold hard fact).

I was against picking up Cousins from the start. My main reason was we already had 5 over 30s in the side. The mistake was not offloading the Johnson's. My mind has changed. We picked Cousins up cheaply and he has been very valuable both on and off the field by all accounts. However he'd still be a trade for a 2nd rounder.

 

[Scoop]

You are the one who mentioned comparing Cousins' stats with other players who get as quarter as much of the ball.

Really? You raised it not me.

If that's the case why didn't Ben do that himself, or why didn't every player do it? His silky skills are mentioned while other players with better efficiency ratings, Whitey for example, skills are bagged.

Don't think the point I made was at all unfair in reference to what you posted above. Do you want to argue Matthew White's ball useage vs Ben Counsins? Seeing as you put the above statement out in the public forum I think I was within my right to ask. Nothing personal just debating points that have been raised.

 

[Baloo]

I'm swaying now.

Cuz for another year or two or another 2nd rounder like Post.

I think I might be back to leaning for the trade.

 

[itsintheblood]

Whoever said yes to this poll is an absolute moron. Sorry but it's unjustifiable. We do all the hard work in getting him to the club and up and running and he's showing his leadership qualities which is exactly what we lack and now these people want to trade him? Just absolutely dumb and you don't know a thing about football. Also looking at our membershio being up 6,000 from last year when it's only been increasing by a thousand or 2 before we got him.

Gimme a break.

:duh :veryupset

 

[Rosy]

Don't think the point I made was at all unfair in reference to what you posted above.

I was talking about disposal efficiency rather than possession numbers. You mentioned comparing with other players by their possession totals..ie alluding to a lower efficiency being acceptable if there are a large number of possessions. There is a difference and you've bagged Jacko, and people giving him votes, when he's had a lot of possessions yet still a reasonable efficiency rating.

Now why did you have a go at me about mentioning Jacko and Whitey on this thread and not about Lids who I also mentioned? ;D

 

[TigerForce]

All Tooheys did was ask a hypothetical question. Some of you are going on like he'd suggested selling the club to Arab rug salesmen.

This is just another episode Oldie's anti-Cousins campaign since last pre-season.

It's a ridiculous question whether it's hypothetical or not because now we can see what skills, knowledge and leadership Cuz is providing our kids which has been a rarity at our club for many years considering the average captains we've had since Weightman (IMO). If Cuz was just a cruiser as Nathan Brown has been, then he'd be worth trading for a 2nd Round pick. This bloke is ADDING more to our club than we all expected.

Why the hell give something like this away for a 2nd round pick we don't even know of ???

All these kids mentioned by other posters are inexperienced and untried. Do clubs tank for 2nd round picks??

Build our current kids with Cuz's influence and experience and then in 2 years, when he'll finish or wear out, and when a new coach is in his 3rd year at the club, we can start to focus on kids only.

Most people voting YES on here are deluded in thinking that trading him now for a 2nd round pick will win us a flag in the next 3 years.

 

[Baloo]

Most people voting YES on here are deluded that trade him now for a 2nd round pick for the reason that we're ready to win a flag in the next 3 years.

TF, you can't use the word deluded without the word feral. Please edit your post.

 

[Rosy]

Whoever said yes to this poll is an absolute moron.

That probably speaks more about you than those who've voted itsy. Better to discuss the opinions than insult people because they don't see things your way.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Whoever said yes to this poll is an absolute moron.

No need for that, I don't think we should trade Cousins, but it's a good question and the type sites like this are made off. Idle speculation to keep us all thinking and discussing Tiger Topics.

I see no reason for the nonsense ToO or people proposing/agreeing with the trade should be bagged for having a different view. Especially when they've done so respectfully.

I think a key part about trades is not ONLY the inarguable rule of, always trying to turn over your list and get long term development scope into it, but you also trade for things you DON'T have. Intangibles.

Leadership and work ethic is one of ours we have lacked for a long time. Something Cousins excels at. He's a rare case where his intangibles break conventional logic in my opinion.

 

[meltiger]

Cant believe so many people venting their anger at ToO.

My guess it's because he has an anti-Ben history... Which is detracting from what is actually a valid argument. I'll admit, my initial thought was "Oh just another excuse to ditch him" ... But reading through the thread he does have a legit argument here (Even if I personally disagree)


FWIW - I wouldn't do it, simply because Ben is at present, the best player at our footy club. Why trade him on for a draft selection that could very well turn out to be a dud?

 

[TigerForce]

All of a sudden we see Cuz get into form and then we think about trading him for a 2nd round pick.

Let's tank for 2nd round picks.

He was the last pick in the whole draft and some still take it as if he wasted our early picks.

What a laugh !!

It's like a poor man walking over $1000 cash and then giving it to a rich man.

 

[WesternTiger]

No need for that, I don't think we should trade Cousins, but it's a good question and the type sites like this are made off. Idle speculation to keep us all thinking and discussing Tiger Topics.

I see no reason for the nonsense ToO or people proposing/agreeing with the trade should be bagged for having a different view. Especially when they've done so respectfully.

I think a key part about trades is not ONLY the inarguable rule of, always trying to turn over your list and get long term development scope into it, but you also trade for things you DON'T have. Intangibles.

Leadership and work ethic is one of ours we have lacked for a long time. Something Cousins excels at. He's a rare case where his intangibles break conventional logic in my opinion.

Many, many other things to bag ToO about DD! ;D

 

[davidrodan]

All of a sudden we see Cuz get into form and then we think about trading him for a 2nd round pick.

Let's tank for 2nd round picks.

He was the last pick in the whole draft and some still take it as if he wasted our early picks.

What a laugh !!

It's like a poor man walking over $1000 cash and then giving it to a rich man.

For a lotto ticket

 

[meltiger]

^ Spot on.

No way in the world would I want the club to do this trade

 

[marella jube]

Good reading & appreciate the issue ToO has thrown up for debate.

Realise he’s past his best but Cousins seems to be providing what we’ve often lamented has been lacking in our other senior players , the drive & example to try & make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

Not that it matters what others think & not advocating the RFC become a ‘retirement home’ but if Cousin’s form holds up might we not be accused of ‘short term’ thinking or cynically just indulged in a cheap marketing gimmick if we cut him loose after just 1 year ….If he wants to go, well ,that another story…That said, I’d like to think he’d be worth far more than Schulz (pick 28 , 2008 valuation)

 

[Disco08]

What's with the "b!tch much" Disco?

My opinion of you was generally rather high until that.

It can't have been that high if 1) it can be significantly lowered by two words and 2) you think I'd edit someone's posts because it hurt my argument on a footy forum. You made a little song and dance about me moving your article. Where I come from that's bitching, but whatever.

http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=37079.0

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/the-art-of-ben-cousins/2009/06/12/1244664851199.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

OK, so an article from 6 weeks ago says he'd only just started having a bigger impact on game day in the last few weeks. It also says that he's been great at Coburg and great at training. I don't reckon it took him long to start doing that stuff. Certainly none of the coaches have to add something like "he started off very quiet, but lately....." when they make these glowing statements about him. Like this for example:

"He's got this mystique to him, but he's put in an amazing effort to get to know them, and he gives them all the same amount of time, and they've responded, they really like having him around. I think he's made a real effort with the young guys to make sure they don't see him as this mythical character."

I think it's fair to say Cousin's has already had a pretty heavy impact at the club. The question is whether or not it's enough to effect the young players for good or whether they need him there for longer to keep ramming the message home.

 

[meltiger]

That said, I’d like to think he’d be worth far more than Schulz (pick 28 , 2008 valuation)

Talls always get overpriced remember. Hawthorn got what A first rounder and very early second rounder for Nathan Thompson? :rofl


I doubt we'd get anyone offering up a first rounder in the shadows of the GC scam that's about to come.

 

[agincourt]

This is a ridiculous argument. What are the chances of getting a good player as a 2nd rounder? I'd say damn high actually. But regardless your premise is that because you are unsure of your chances of picking up a good player, you shouldnt do it. So if you don't do it, you have NO chance of picking up a good player. Trading Cousins at his age for a high 2nd rounder would be an easy decision. The point is no-one would offer a 2nd rounder, and we know why.

Cousins would be great for us if we were pushing for a premiership, but we aint. His life expectancy is maybe one or two more years. Cousins will be with us for that time I have no doubt, but most if not all teams in Richmond's position would trade Cousins for a 2nd rounder, especially considering he is not a lifetime player of the Tigers (cold hard fact).

I was against picking up Cousins from the start. My main reason was we already had 5 over 30s in the side. The mistake was not offloading the Johnson's. My mind has changed. We picked Cousins up cheaply and he has been very valuable both on and off the field by all accounts. However he'd still be a trade for a 2nd rounder.

We already have a good....no make that GREAT.....player who will give more to this club in the next 1 or 2 years than 90% of the second round draft picks ever will!


.....and I'll ask you, what makes you so confident we have a quite high chance of getting a good player when our recruiting dept has consistently let us down, year after year, not to mention our abysmal record of player (non)-development.

I think the chances are actually a lot higher that any player we picked up in the second round would more than likely never be half the player Cuz is now. For every good (let alone top grade) player gained as a second pick there are 3 or 4 who are at best average and at worst complete duds....and Richmond has a proven track record at picking duds! :hihi

 

[Tigerbob]

I think people need to lay off ToO.

I am definitely opposed to his view but I respect his angle and where it comes from.

He has a different view to some, that is all, no menace in what he puts forth.

I am adament that under no way do we trade Ben Cousins, I would not even contemplate it, but, I see where others are coming from in regards to it. A second round is nothing to sneeze at, it's just my opinion Ben Cousins brings so much more to our footy club.

 

[Harry]

How about in 6 years time when the 18 year old we could have picked at 25 turns out to be a 24 year old around the calibre of say, Sam Mitchell or Leigh Montagna?

c'mon disco - 6 years !!!

who's gonna wait THAT long.

geez.