Trade Week - Richmond Only

[percyms]

Slept on it and wud think Tigers will gave a good plan what players they want with current picks. I wud offer 6 & 18 for 2 or tell Nth enjoy who u pick up for 2. I reckon they will cave as it wud b a waste taking another mid fielder and missing their actual target. Can't see anyone else around our pick 6 offering a better deal. Our current picks r awesome so why compromise it when we don't have to. As I said the longer we hold out the more desperate Nth will get IMO.

 

[Dyer'ere]

Unfortunately addiction isn't temporary. The underlying brain is still the same. Most are looking for a solution outside of themselves. I think it's why so many find god and its why 12 step fellowships invoke that word a lot. There are big links to ADHD and addiction. Emotional disregulation.

Self-awareness is the key, that takes a lot of CBT to understand. And drugs at times. Even then old traits can surface under pressure.

Are clubs equipped to handle addicts or neuro-divergents? As ND diagnosis increases (a shrink I know reckons it is massively under-diagnosed in the general population) that will change. The whole embracing an individual expressing themselves, treating team members indiviudually within a team framework.

This is a terrific post, MD. There's a lot in here. I totally agree with your thinking here. And thanks for introducing the topic.

I think clubs will improve at managing those with an ND profile in the fullness of time. To the extent that I get any information incoming on any club's treatment of a player with what might be an ND profile I am often worried. I'm talking about any club here.

There has to be a culture of inclusion. The forms that takes. As you say "embracing an individual expressing themselves".

Because the ND topic is new to the boards here I'm going to make a few general points that I'm pretty sure you'll be familiar with but just general points.



Here are some stubs-

ADHD, for example, is a diagnosis in one sense. Because it's Attention Deficit Hyperactivity DISORDER. Insofar as it's ADH-DISORDER it's a medical matter. Needs a diagnosis. (Medical matter therefore attracts medical funding. Support.) A diagnosis is a private matter and none of my or anybody else's business. That's the player's business. A club may be aware of that but it's a confidential medical matter. Insofar as it's a diagnosis.

Likewise in say Autism Spectrum DISORDER that's a medical matter. Because we're talking about the DISORDER character of the condition here.

And sure, there are times when a person with an autistic or hyperactive profile may appear to any sane person as a DISORDER or even a DISABILITY. And yes, there are people so deeply and relentlessly effected by such conditions that it would be insanity to not see the disability. Or to deem it otherwise.

But Nerodivergence is a condition. Not a disorder nor a disabilty in itself. And in respect of its being a condition is about having or showing a profile. And then about how a person identifies.

Say at my workplace I notice that Gerald is very focussed. Very, very focussed. I must not interrupt him. He gets upset. I'll be careful with him. Yes. He keeps those buds in, doesn't he? Good. He's got a little office and works his magic in there. The lights he's brought in are much better than the glaring fluoro tubes everybody else has. Who took the tubes out in his office?

And I notice that Yismin changes topics in the middle of every sentence. And drops stuff in the same place every day. (She really does this.) Sometimes I just go and stand at the Yismin catastrophe site ready to pick the *smile* up. Mostly I forget until I hear the racket. And other times I laugh and walk away. Depends on how badly she's melting and it wouldn't hurt brah to pick something up.

The thing is I will not brook any slander of this pair. Or the other 20.

I accidentally profile the *smile* out of everybody coz that's what I do. But I don't tell anybody about it. That would be gaslighting. (IKR?)

 

[123cups]

This is a terrific post, MD. There's a lot in here. I totally agree with your thinking here. And thanks for introducing the topic.

I think clubs will improve at managing those with an ND profile in the fullness of time. To the extent that I get any information incoming on any club's treatment of a player with what might be an ND profile I am often worried. I'm talking about any club here.

There has to be a culture of inclusion. The forms that takes. As you say "embracing an individual expressing themselves".

Because the ND topic is new to the boards here I'm going to make a few general points that I'm pretty sure you'll be familiar with but just general points.



Here are some stubs-

ADHD, for example, is a diagnosis in one sense. Because it's Attention Deficit Hyperactivity DISORDER. Insofar as it's ADH-DISORDER it's a medical matter. Needs a diagnosis. (Medical matter therefore attracts medical funding. Support.) A diagnosis is a private matter and none of my or anybody else's business. That's the player's business. A club may be aware of that but it's a confidential medical matter. Insofar as it's a diagnosis.

Likewise in say Autism Spectrum DISORDER that's a medical matter. Because we're talking about the DISORDER character of the condition here.

And sure, there are times when a person with an autistic or hyperactive profile may appear to any sane person as a DISORDER or even a DISABILITY. And yes, there are people so deeply and relentlessly effected by such conditions that it would be insanity to not see the disability. Or to deem it otherwise.

But Nerodivergence is a condition. Not a disorder nor a disabilty in itself. And in respect of its being a condition is about having or showing a profile. And then about how a person identifies.

Say at my workplace I notice that Gerald is very focussed. Very, very focussed. I must not interrupt him. He gets upset. I'll be careful with him. Yes. He keeps those buds in, doesn't he? Good. He's got a little office and works his magic in there. The lights he's brought in are much better than the glaring fluoro tubes everybody else has. Who took the tubes out in his office?

And I notice that Yismin changes topics in the middle of every sentence. And drops stuff in the same place every day. (She really does this.) Sometimes I just go and stand at the Yismin catastrophe site ready to pick the *smile* up. Mostly I forget until I hear the racket. And other times I laugh and walk away. Depends on how badly she's melting and it wouldn't hurt brah to pick something up.

The thing is I will not brook any slander of this pair. Or the other 20.

I accidentally profile the *smile* out of everybody coz that's what I do. But I don't tell anybody about it. That would be gaslighting. (IKR?)

And then there's the Geralds who couldn't navigate the pandemic and lost a lifetime of preparation for said job, so the magic ends up as lost productivity for everyone. Hopefully the club can unearth some talented ND players through non-traditional pathways in the coming years.

 

[leon]

The 1 & 2 of the last 20 drafts and some players who weren’t:


2023: Reid, Mckercher
2022: Cadman, Ashcroft (Sheezel)
2021: Horne Francis, Darcy (Daicos, Callaghan,)
2020: Ugle Hagen, Thilthorpe (Gulden, not much else that year!)
2019: Rowell, Anderson (Jackson, Serong, Green)
2018: Walsh, Lukosius (Rozee, Blakey, Butters)
2017: Rayner, Brayshaw (LDU, Kelly)
2016: McGrath, Taranto (McLuggage, Berry, Bolton)
2015: Weitering, Schache (Mills, Oliver, Parish, McKay, Dunkley)
2014: McCartin, Petracca (Brayshaw, Degoey, Moore, Heeney)
2013: Boyd, Kelly (Bontempelli, Cripps, Merrett)
2012: Whitfield, O’Rourke ( Vlaustin, Wines, Daniher)
2011: Patton, Coniglio (Greene, Mitchell)
2010: Swallow, Bennell (Prestia, Parker, Libba)
2009: Scully, Trengrove (Martin, Fyfe, Gawn)
2008: Watts, Natanui (Sidebottom, Walters, Beams)
2007: Kruezer, Cotchin (Dangerfield, Rance, Taylor)
2006: Gibbs, Gumbleton (Selwood, Riewoldt, Boak)
2005: Murphy, Thomas (Pendlebury, Kennedy, Ryder)
2004: Deledio, Roughead (Franklin)

Proving what amazing quality can be found beyond the top two pics - which everyone expects to be great!

 

[DavidSSS]

This is a terrific post, MD. There's a lot in here. I totally agree with your thinking here. And thanks for introducing the topic.

I think clubs will improve at managing those with an ND profile in the fullness of time. To the extent that I get any information incoming on any club's treatment of a player with what might be an ND profile I am often worried. I'm talking about any club here.

There has to be a culture of inclusion. The forms that takes. As you say "embracing an individual expressing themselves".

Because the ND topic is new to the boards here I'm going to make a few general points that I'm pretty sure you'll be familiar with but just general points.



Here are some stubs-

ADHD, for example, is a diagnosis in one sense. Because it's Attention Deficit Hyperactivity DISORDER. Insofar as it's ADH-DISORDER it's a medical matter. Needs a diagnosis. (Medical matter therefore attracts medical funding. Support.) A diagnosis is a private matter and none of my or anybody else's business. That's the player's business. A club may be aware of that but it's a confidential medical matter. Insofar as it's a diagnosis.

Likewise in say Autism Spectrum DISORDER that's a medical matter. Because we're talking about the DISORDER character of the condition here.

And sure, there are times when a person with an autistic or hyperactive profile may appear to any sane person as a DISORDER or even a DISABILITY. And yes, there are people so deeply and relentlessly effected by such conditions that it would be insanity to not see the disability. Or to deem it otherwise.

But Nerodivergence is a condition. Not a disorder nor a disabilty in itself. And in respect of its being a condition is about having or showing a profile. And then about how a person identifies.

Say at my workplace I notice that Gerald is very focussed. Very, very focussed. I must not interrupt him. He gets upset. I'll be careful with him. Yes. He keeps those buds in, doesn't he? Good. He's got a little office and works his magic in there. The lights he's brought in are much better than the glaring fluoro tubes everybody else has. Who took the tubes out in his office?

And I notice that Yismin changes topics in the middle of every sentence. And drops stuff in the same place every day. (She really does this.) Sometimes I just go and stand at the Yismin catastrophe site ready to pick the *smile* up. Mostly I forget until I hear the racket. And other times I laugh and walk away. Depends on how badly she's melting and it wouldn't hurt brah to pick something up.

The thing is I will not brook any slander of this pair. Or the other 20.

I accidentally profile the *smile* out of everybody coz that's what I do. But I don't tell anybody about it. That would be gaslighting. (IKR?)

Yeah, good post. I used to work at a university. It will surprise few that there are plenty of people at universities with challenging traits. Plenty have slight ADHD which, if they can handle it, can make them excellent researchers - very focussed. Plenty have a bit of autism too. Plus a lot who are brilliant in their field, and terrible on anything else. Of course, there are a higher than usual proportion of complete freaks who are just too smart and great at everything they try.

It is a pretty divergent world when you think about it.

I always remember one academic who would just bounce around from one thing to another. Given I generally have at least 3 things going on in my head at once I could follow her but lots couldn't. Always makes you think about how others' brains are functioning, you want others to take into account the way you think, you need to try and do the same for everyone else - can be a challenge if their way of seeing the world is too different and hard to follow.

DS

 

[leon]

The rumoured deal is pick 2 and their F1 for our 6 and 11.
Thats 2 picks for 2 picks.
it is upgrading pick 6 to pick 2 and swapping pick 11 for North's f1.

If true, I cannot see how we could possibly say no.

Yes, l see that. It looks in our favour ... looks. Except, beware of ... Norf bearing gifts. I really don't think Norf will play finals in '25 despite a very favorable draw they will be gifted again. But I think they've tanked for more and more high draft picks for years, remember the priority pics in '23! They have timed it when ready to launch; it's pretty random but l can see them possibly finishing much higher in '25.
This looks to be a strong and deep draft. Not so next year and probably more compromised. 11 following 10 is almost foolproof.
I'd just as rather keep these pics and strike while the iron's hot. Get another quality kid in our system now. Next year can look after itself; we will probably push one back and get pick 1 plus more high pics in '25 anyway.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

Yes, l see that. It looks in our favour ... looks. Except, beware of ... Norf bearing gifts. I really don't think Norf will play finals in

a very favorable draw they will be gifted again. But I think they've tanked for more and more high draft picks for years, remember the priority pics in '23! They have timed it when ready to launch; it's pretty random but l can see them possibly finishing much higher in '25.
This looks to be a strong and deep draft. Not so next year and probably more compromised. 11 following 10 is almost foolproof.
I'd just as rather keep these pics and strike while the iron's hot. Get another quality kid in our system now. Next year can look after itself; we will probably push one back and get pick 1 plus more high pics in '25 anyway.

North is *smile*, they aren't going from winning 15 games in 5 years to winning 10 in 1 year.
If they win 6 games that's still a bottom 4 finish.
10 wins 10 - 14th

 

[turk-d-tiger]

North is *smile*, they aren't going from winning 15 games in 5 years to winning 10 in 1 year.
If they win 6 games that's still a bottom 4 finish.
10 wins 10 - 14th

I could see them winning 7-9 games 10/11 worst case scenario if they get on a roll

They will play Richmond , Eagles , Bombers , Stkilda x 2

 

[Sintiger]

The rumoured deal is pick 2 and their F1 for our 6 and 11.
Thats 2 picks for 2 picks.
it is upgrading pick 6 to pick 2 and swapping pick 11 for North's f1.

If true, I cannot see how we could possibly say no.

If that is true what it tells me is that Blair is playing hard ball.
Clearly what north originally wanted for pick 2 has not been accepted.
Not sure we should accept even this one not just the reasons others have stated but also because I can see us getting a couple of other first round picks in 2025 from using our later picks as trade capital.

 

[Tigermad2005]

Force norths hand and make them use two.

 

[Number8]

I actually doubt North has offered this deal, it seems to favour us too much.

In contrast, I think this is outstanding business by North.

Pick #2 doesn't mean anywhere near as much to them as it does to us. That's the central idea to hold in your mind.

North will do this deal if they remain confident they get their first choice selection (likely Tauru).

The cream on the cake is they get another gun at #11.

Looking at the age profile of North's list, their time is now. As others have said, their F1 may end up being equivalent to anything from #5—#10 anyway.

Having dubiously coughed up pick #25, North wants to back into this draft.

Holding picks #6 and #11, obtaining their first choice target and selecting another jet at #11 is the way to do it.

Hard to see how the mooted deal isn't a win-win.

Excellent work by both clubs if it happens.

 

[Brodders17]

In contrast, I think this is outstanding business by North.

Pick #2 doesn't mean anywhere near as much to them as it does to us. That's the central idea to hold in your mind.

North will do this deal if they remain confident they get their first choice selection (likely Tauru).

The cream on the cake is they get another gun at #11.

Looking at the age profile of North's list, their time is now. As others have said, their F1 may end up being equivalent to anything from #5—#10 anyway.

Having dubiously coughed up pick #25, North wants to back into this draft.

Holding picks #6 and #11, obtaining their first choice target and selecting another jet at #11 is the way to do it.

Hard to see how the mooted deal isn't a win-win.

Excellent work by both clubs if it happens.

Yep, great deal. Until North finish 18th again and they miss the chance to draft the next big thing. (At least hopefully if we have their pick. )

Bottom teams trading future 1st rd picks is very risky business.

 

[mrposhman]

Yep, great deal. Until North finish 18th again and they miss the chance to draft the next big thing. (At least hopefully if we have their pick. )

Bottom teams trading future 1st rd picks is very risky business.

Which is why we should do it. They are a Nick Larkey injury away from another bottom 3 finish. Lose him or Sheezel to injury and we'll be licking our lips as we deathride them next year.

 

[Tiggy Train]

The rumoured deal is pick 2 and their F1 for our 6 and 11.
Thats 2 picks for 2 picks.
it is upgrading pick 6 to pick 2 and swapping pick 11 for North's f1.

If true, I cannot see how we could possibly say no.

it's a no brainer

 

[Brodders17]

Which is why we should do it. They are a Nick Larkey injury away from another bottom 3 finish. Lose him or Sheezel to injury and we'll be licking our lips as we deathride them next year.

I think people are getting carried away with the reported depth of this draft.
My take on it is that the high end quality is typical, but the quality in the teens and 20s is higher than usual.
A top ten pick next year will give us access to a potentially very good player.
A top 3 pick gives a potential superstar.

I would trade 11 for their F1 straight up. Getting 2 for 6 is a big bonus.

 

[Tiggy Train]

If there is doubt over whether the top mids will still be there at 10 (or whatever it ends up being after the rorts which push picks back), then upgrading 6 to 2 would be wise as we then get to pick the 2 best mids according to the judgement of our recruiting staff. To then swap 11 for North's F1 seems a good deal too.

I actually doubt North has offered this deal, it seems to favour us too much.

I'd take it.

DS

agree it's too good to be true

 

[caesar]

Yep, great deal. Until North finish 18th again and they miss the chance to draft the next big thing. (At least hopefully if we have their pick. )

Bottom teams trading future 1st rd picks is very risky business.

Even top teams trading F1st is risky , Richmond, (Hopper).

 

[mrposhman]

I think people are getting carried away with the reported depth of this draft.
My take on it is that the high end quality is typical, but the quality in the teens and 20s is higher than usual.
A top ten pick next year will give us access to a potentially very good player.
A top 3 pick gives a potential superstar.

I would trade 11 for their F1 straight up. Getting 2 for 6 is a big bonus.

Totally agree, some of the comments that people would prefer 11 (which is really 13 or maybe even 14) over whatever Norths pick next year is crazy. Its ironic that some of these are the same people bashing the club for giving up the pick we did for Hopper.

I agree with you on the drafts, the top 10 are as good as any other draft IMO, possibly a bit lower right at the pointy end - Ie. no clear superstar this year - and you are right I think 10-25 are probably better than most years but, doesn't mean that player in the middle of that group will be better than a top 5 pick next year.

There are already statements that Dyson Sharp would have gone number 1 in this years draft as his exposed form is excellent, and with some of the other guys for next year showing signs, there is nothing to suggest that the top 10 next year will be duds.

If we are offered 2 and F1st for 6 and 11 we should be snapping their hands off and running away like giggling schoolgirls.

 

[Tiggy Train]

In contrast, I think this is outstanding business by North.

Pick #2 doesn't mean anywhere near as much to them as it does to us. That's the central idea to hold in your mind.

North will do this deal if they remain confident they get their first choice selection (likely Tauru).

The cream on the cake is they get another gun at #11.

Looking at the age profile of North's list, their time is now. As others have said, their F1 may end up being equivalent to anything from #5—#10 anyway.

Having dubiously coughed up pick #25, North wants to back into this draft.

Holding picks #6 and #11, obtaining their first choice target and selecting another jet at #11 is the way to do it.

Hard to see how the mooted deal isn't a win-win.

Excellent work by both clubs if it happens.

NO, as you're forgetting the massive advantage we get next year to double dip early in the draft and they don't. That deal people are saying is massively skewed in our favour and if it's true then Blair should sign off on it now.

 

[Willo]

Yep, great deal. Until North finish 18th again and they miss the chance to draft the next big thing. (At least hopefully if we have their pick. )

Bottom teams trading future 1st rd picks is very risky business.

Then the afl will probably give #lolnorf a priority pick 1 and we’d still miss Dyson Sharp