Tigers vs Bloose Gameday thread rnd 16

[Ridley]

It’s disappointing how far and how quickly we have fallen. We are a huge chance to win the spoon and if we do that it would have been achieved in 4 years since winning a flag. Has that ever happened so quickly before?

The club said we would never bottom out. Yze was even talking top 4 after he was appointed. Injuries haven’t helped obviously but it’s also obvious the club was delusional about the state of the list.

 

[TigerForce]

I really hope he plays at least one more, preferably 2. But of course he only does that if want to, if he's fit and want's to mentor the next gen. But for me, thats the ideal scenario. But footy often doesn't deliver the ideal scenario.

I, like many, have loved Duz forever but everytime the media or club builds the hype showing he's fit and ready to go, his performance becomes average as we saw in his 300th. Great start but nothing later. Clear signs he is slowing down.

 

[TigerForce]

It’s disappointing how far and how quickly we have fallen. We are a huge chance to win the spoon and if we do that it would have been achieved in 4 years since winning a flag. Has that ever happened so quickly before?

The club said we would never bottom out. Yze was even talking top 4 after he was appointed. Injuries haven’t helped obviously but it’s also obvious the club was delusional about the state of the list.

If you hear him on SEN with Lyon and Watson last week, you can read between the lines that we are really tanking by contradicting some things he said.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

I love Dusty the Goat but if the Tiges offer him another contract for next year then questions need to be asked

He is cooked.. if it was ok to say Cotchin and Edwards were at the end.
It's OK everyone to say Dusty is finished too

 

[tigersnake]

Of course you couldn’t. But it’s funny when people try to use it as an excuse. Which is exactly what I stated.

We’re so young, so inexperienced, we’re playing all the kids. Age and experience profile shows that to be *smile*.

If their better players are playing better than ours, that’s the problem right there.

We fielded some fairly handy players. Out of form, injured or had a day off?

We’ve still had Hopper, Taranto, Baker, Bolton, Vlaustin, Broad, Nankervis, McIntosh, Rioli, Balta, Short , Graham and Martin on the field
There is more than half pf the team right there. So it’s not irrelevant.

Both the number and the quality of young players is critical. Those age and games profiles you post are skewed, we have old experienced players and young inexperienced players, and very few of those are early draft picks, and not much in between. That in-between profile is the one that contends for flags.

To me, these are just basic, brutal realities we have to deal with. But here's the thing, a lot of clubs have to deal with them, but they missed the winning 3 flags part.

Get used to it. Things can turn and take surprising turns, but on balance of probablities, were are rebuilding. We have to get early draft picks, use them wisely to get the next gen of Tiger stars, 4 to 6 elite players, then gel as a side and get big match hardened. If everything goes well, we're in for at least 5 or 6 years of losses, inconsistency, shuffling the list to get the right balance, probably more like 8 or 10.

You may call that an excuse, I just call it reality, thats footy. You can't win the flag every year.

 

[tigersnake]

He is cooked.. if it was ok to say Cotchin and Edwards were at the end.
It's OK everyone to say Dusty is finished too

People can say whatever they want. You of all people should know that.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

A 10 goal flogging by our nemesis - my how the wheel has turned, we had the best times flogging them for a decade now its their turn. Bugger it!

Did we ever beat them by 61pts+ through our dominated years??

 

[dimmauchamp]

Our issue is we are hamstrung by some big contracts in Lynch, Hopper, Taranto, Rioli and Shai. Add to that players like Vloss, Broad, Short, Grimes, Nank and Kmac who all will be on good coin due to the premierships and we don't have a lot of money in the bank to get creative. That is why the trades of Shai, Baker and Rioli need to be seriously considered. Not only will it net us some crucial top 10 picks but it will also free up the coffers to start the rebuild in earnest.

 

[Willo]

Both the number and the quality of young players is critical. Those age and games profiles you post are skewed,

They’re the reality. I haven’t made them up.

we have old experienced players and young inexperienced players, and very few of those are early draft picks, and not much in between. That in-between profile is the one that contends for flags.

So where do you rank Taranto, Hopper, Bolton, Balta, Rioli, Baker, Graham etc.
How old is old? Is that Nankervis, Vlaustin, Broad, McIntosh? There’s 10 players
Dusty feeling his years maybe

To me, these are just basic, brutal realities we have to deal with. But here's the thing, a lot of clubs have to deal with them, but they missed the winning 3 flags part.

Yes true in one respect. But the other is some of our middle age players are out of form, front runners or bludged for a while in today’s game.
The last of our flags was 4 years ago. All our good players haven’t died off or retired. We’ve had some bad luck with injuries but that’s the way it goes. If Lynch and Prestia were fit. Does our team then look different? Nothing to do Will our las5 flag 4 years ago.
So it comes down to the team on the field.
Most of the “older experienced” players kept going all game. It was the mid tier that fell down and a couple of the younger players. But Carlto; had their share of younger players too. Why didn’t they drop off?

Get used to it. Things can turn and take surprising turns, but on balance of probablities, were are rebuilding. We have to get early draft picks, use them wisely to get the next gen of Tiger stars, 4 to 6 elite players, then gel as a side and get big match hardened. If everything goes well, we're in for at least 5 or 6 years of losses, inconsistency, shuffling the list to get the right balance, probably more like 8 or 10.

Yea( that’s all well and good. We’ll churn the list over and over. And trade as well.
Another 10 years, well I’d hope not.
But all that had little bearing on today’s game.
15 minutes of poor football cost us. Not our “young” or “old” list.

You may call that an excuse, I just call it reality, thats footy.

I don’t call that an excuse at all. That’s exactly what I stated and you disagreed with

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

Tarranto got me really angry today.
Massive butcher that really dosent give a shiit.

 

[tigersnake]

They’re the reality. I haven’t made them up.

I know you haven't. You've missed my point. a team with 3 300 game players and 5 20 game players have the same average games as 8 120 game players, but they have very different profiles. You're suggesting our list profile and Carlton's are the same. They aren't.

 

[Willo]

I know you haven't. You've missed my point. a team with 3 300 game players and 5 20 game players have the same average games as 8 120 game players, but they have very different profiles. You're suggesting our list profile and Carlton's are the same. They aren't.

No I didn’t mention the list profile.
What I did mention was
1. The age profile. I mentioned that because so many posters were saying we had a much younger team than Carlton
2. The games experience profile. If you happened to look at it broke down the experience.
We were an average age of 26.7. They were an average age of 25.7
We averaged 101.7 games they were 102.2 games. That was because we were so much more “inexperienced”

We had 9 players with less than 50 games. They had 6.
Over 50 games we had 14 players. They had 17 players.

 

[MD Jazz]

I know you haven't. You've missed my point. a team with 3 300 game players and 5 20 game players have the same average games as 8 120 game players, but they have very different profiles. You're suggesting our list profile and Carlton's are the same. They aren't.

Maths and stats ain't his strong point.

Anyone expecting anything different from what we have been puttng on the park has rocks in their head.

We have been stuffed by injuries, been forced to play too many inexperienced kids and out of form players (eg Short). And then you have to face the fact that getting up for 120 mniutes of football when you are completely out of contention is not easy. We stuck with the opposition for a half which we often have.

Players like Bolton started like a house on fire this year but I don't think he bears the weight of responsibility well. If we had our best 22 available we are in the 8. Dusty has rarely fired a shot.

Not sure what posters expect Yze to do. Pull on the boots?

 

[tigersnake]

No I didn’t mention the list profile.
What I did mention was
1. The age profile. I mentioned that because so many posters were saying we had a much younger team than Carlton
2. The games experience profile. If you happened to look at it broke down the experience.
We were an average age of 26.7. They were an average age of 25.7
We averaged 101.7 games they were 102.2 games. That was because we were so much more “inexperienced”

We had 9 players with less than 50 games. They had 6.
Over 50 games we had 14 players. They had 17 players.

You're supporting my argument. Age and experience broadly correlates. 9 v 6 inexperienced players is significant. And I reckon if you drilled down further it would get more significant. Banks, Blight, Brown, Campbell, McAuliffe, Sonsie all under 15 games, light years away from 50

 

[mrposhman]

We had 9 players with less than 50 games. They had 6.

Kemp - 36
Hollands - 33
Boyd - 31
Cincotta - 27
Hollands - 27
Cowan - 16
3 1st round draft picks among them

Vs
Mansell - 45
HRS - 42
Miller - 38
Sonsie - 21
Brown - 14
Campbell - 14
Banks - 13
McAuliffe - 8
Blight - 1
1 1st round draft pick among them

Average games for those 6 were 28 vs 22 for ours. Median shows a bigger swing though, 31 to 14.

Big difference in who those under 50 players were and how much experience and quality they have.

 

[RoarEmotion]

Our issue is we are hamstrung by some big contracts in Lynch, Hopper, Taranto, Rioli and Shai. Add to that players like Vloss, Broad, Short, Grimes, Nank and Kmac who all will be on good coin due to the premierships and we don't have a lot of money in the bank to get creative. That is why the trades of Shai, Baker and Rioli need to be seriously considered. Not only will it net us some crucial top 10 picks but it will also free up the coffers to start the rebuild in earnest.

You have to pay 95% of the salary cap every year at the moment. You can do some wriggling with back ending and front ending but there is no ‘free up the coffers’ IMO.

 

[22nd Man]

Did we ever beat them by 61pts+ through our dominated years??

No. Largest win of ours in the Dimma years was 43 points in 2017. (Remember for most of that era Carlton’s Grand Final was v Rich, for us it was just round 1)
And in 2011 we lost by 103 mid season game 89 the year prior and 83 in 2009.

 

[BluesBloke]

Did we ever beat them by 61pts+ through our dominated years??

I think it generally hovered around the five-goal mark. We never got absolutely belted, but in a few of them the scoreboard flattered us somewhat.

 

[TigerForce]

So, looks like Blighty learnt another thing in his 1st game. How *smile* pathetic these flogs are!!!

Just watching the game now, we stayed in touch until the flog called a mark to McKay who Blight and Vloss yelled touched and the flog stands his ground "that's the decision". No review but replay showed Brown touched it. We lost the game there.

 

[tigersnake]

So, looks like Blighty learnt another thing in his 1st game. How *smile* pathetic these flogs are!!!

Just watching the game now, we stayed in touch until the flog called a mark to McKay who Blight and Vloss yelled touched and the flog stands his ground "that's the decision". No review but replay showed Brown touched it. We lost the game there.

I was actually very surprised at how much the commentators went on about it. Umps missed a slight touched off the boot, not ideal but really, who cares? No impact on the game.