Tiger troy Taylor

[lamb22]

Ridiculous statement considering clubs have dedicated development managers. Indigenous players struggling would not be Hardwick's fault.

Maybe , maybe not. If Hardwick has a Voss like inflexibility some players or groups of players may struggle to adapt.

Good coaches will have different strategies for different players and personality types. One size fits all coaches might struggle long term.

 

[jb03]

Well if thats the case then good on Hardwick.Why should anyone on the list be treated different to any other?Hardwick should get on the phone to Troy and ask him one simple question.Do you want a career in the AFL?if he says Yes then Hardwick demand he be back in Melb by Monday.if he says i need time.Then if i was hardwick id tell him some home truths and delist him.

Ridiculously simplistic skip. PLayers do need to be treated differently to get the best out of them. Happens at good and smart local clubs as well.

I reckon the easy option is what many have done in the past, pander to them trying to make them believe that they really want to play AFL when they clearly do not.

Possibly you are right. Taylor is young and has a troubled history - perhaps for that reason alone needs a longer time to adjust. As Scoop says, write him off for 2011 and work on him becoming a part in 2012 and beyond.

 

[lamb22]

Ridiculous statement considering clubs have dedicated development managers. Indigenous players struggling would not be Hardwick's fault.

The record doesn't look good Goody. If Troy doesn't return that's 4 indigenous players gone in one year. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde to lose one is unfortunate, to lose 4..

 

[GoodOne]

Maybe , maybe not. If Hardwick has a Voss like inflexibility some players or groups of players may struggle to adapt.

Good coaches will have different strategies for different players and personality types. One size fits all coaches might struggle long term.

In the end you play footy, you play as part of a team, you play for the team. If your style of play doesn't suit the team plan then you must move on and players who do fit the game plan must be found. I doubt any coach these days is of the 'one size fits all' variety. Footy has eveolved a long way in terms of professionalism and player needs.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The record doesn't look good Goody. If Troy doesn't return that's 4 indigenous players gone in one year. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde to lose one is unfortunate, to lose 4..

In all honesty at least two weren't good enough regardless of background. Not a great look though I agree.

 

[Scoop]

Surely you wouldn't give up on him now. Instead of taking the easy option and casting him out as weak, do what it takes to get him back and (hopefully) playing well.

Agree, it is not like we are expecting the boy to play 22 games next year. The term project player was what he was and still is. Would be crazy to turf after one year. He is 19 and came with baggage, this is nothing that shouldn't have been expected. I don't think the powers that be would be pulling their hair out and saying we didn't see this coming. It is a process. The goal is to have him playing good footy by the time he is 22. Today means nothing if we can achieve that.

Maybe , maybe not. If Hardwick has a Voss like inflexibility some players or groups of players may struggle to adapt.

Good coaches will have different strategies for different players and personality types. One size fits all coaches might struggle long term.

So he got the older group playing better then expected (King, White, Tuck) he blooded a bunch of kids (Martin, Nason, Astbury, Griffiths), the newest player to the club Shaun Grigg talked about coming because he could see the group plays for the coach but some want to point that finger at Hardwick?

Miles off the mark.

The three boys who have had issues 1) left the club and been exposed as a excuse maker 2) Ate hamburgers 30 mins before a VFL game and 3) A 19 year old who we took on as project who had huge social issues that were there for all to see. Two we gave up on for good reason, the third will be one that we work with and do everything possible to get back. Pick 51 Troy Taylor was risk reward. Big risk for a bigger reward. So far nothing has happened to make me think that is wasn't worth the risk and that it won't pay off.

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

Agree, it is not like we are expecting the boy to play 22 games next year. The term project player was what he was and still is. Would be crazy to turf after one year. He is 19 and came with baggage, this is nothing that shouldn't have been expected. I don't think the powers that be would be pulling their hair out and saying we didn't see this coming. It is a process. The goal is to have him playing good footy by the time he is 22. Today means nothing if we can achieve that.

Agree with both of you, Troy was a troubled kid before he came to us, these are the kinds of ups and downs you could expect.

Btw Titch is Ingenious and he is developing fairly well, clearly he club is not completely useless at it

 

[lamb22]

In all honesty at least two weren't good enough regardless of background. Not a great look though I agree.

I think they were all good enough Oldie, although Relton just never really had the appetite for AFL and was always a long shot.

Gilligan actually looked very promising in patches but clearly had trouble adapting.

 

[GoodOne]

The record doesn't look good Goody. If Troy doesn't return that's 4 indigenous players gone in one year. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde to lose one is unfortunate, to lose 4..

Suely must be Hardwick's fault then. Tambling's traits were apparent well before Hardwick took over. Tambling received preferential treatment this year. Troy just another example of many who have gone AWOL across many clubs. Gilligan and Roberts were rookies for god's sake. If they aren't good enough, ship em out. Held on to players for too long in the past.

 

[Djevv]

That's a bit sad to here Djevv. Are you saying conditions includng education are getting worse?

Are the young kids not getting access to their culture or are they turning their backs on it?

That’s exactly what I am saying. Indigenous students these days have next to no literacy and numeracy skills and things are getting worse not better! Indigenous culture is nowhere near as strong as it once was. Many communities are totally dysfunctional - still. You hear anecdotally that the Indigenous youth don't respect their elders any longer.

Interestingly with Jurrah, despite having only limited English (and hence education) he is a very well respected initiated man in his community. Perhaps that is why he is coping well.

The really sad thing is that these people are often really, really gifted athletically (and in other areas) but they are unable to develop these gifts due to a lack of stable background.

 

[GoodOne]

I think they were all good enough Oldie, although Relton just never really had the appetite for AFL and was always a long shot.

Gilligan actually looked very promising in patches but clearly had trouble adapting.

Well if its all Hardwick's fault then look forward to other clubs picking up these classy players and make it happen, maybe just like Hawthorn did with Peterson (oh wait a minute) ;D

 

[lamb22]

Just on Relton and the hamburgers. Why not let him have them on condition that he meets other benchmarks - possessions, goals, gym benchmarks.

In the old days some of the champs used to have fags or a punt at half time.

Gary senior trained when he felt like it. He was accommodated.

Of course output determines how much leniency or incentive you give a player but in principle a happy player is likely to perfom better than an unhappy player.

 

[Scoop]

Just on Relton and the hamburgers. Why not let him have them on condition that he meets other benchmarks - possessions, goals, gym benchmarks.

In the old days some of the champs used to have fags or a punt at half time.

Gary senior trained when he felt like it. He was accommodated.

Of course output determines how much leniency or incentive you give a player but in principle a happy player is likely to perfom better than an unhappy player.

Oh my. Let's spend 20 million on getting a state of the art facility but let blokes eat all the burgers they want 30 mins before the game.

The old days are long gawn. We need to be moving forward taking on modern day ideas that will improve things, not looking back at blokes smoking darts or having a punt at Flemington. Geez.

Lamby, I suggest you ring Visy Park and put the burger idea across to Brett Ratten for your boy Collins.

 

[lamb22]

Well if its all Hardwick's fault then look forward to other clubs picking up these classy players and make it happen, maybe just like Hawthorn did with Peterson (oh wait a minute) ;D

To be fair Goody, he was more productive at Hawks than with us including being fairly influential for them in beating us this year.

Been on their rookie list for a while before this year too.

Be interesting to see how Tambling goes next season. His year under Hardwick chalk and cheese compared to his playing under Rawlings.

 

[Tigers of Old]

To be fair Goody, he was more productive at Hawks than with us including being fairly influential for them in beating us this year.

To be fair, he's also 3 years older. Same fundamental issues were there though hence his delisting.

What do you put Edwards progression this year down to?

 

[lamb22]

Oh my. Let's spend 20 million on getting a state of the art facility but let blokes eat all the burgers they want 30 mins before the game.

The old days are long gawn. We need to be moving forward taking on modern day ideas that will improve things, not looking back at blokes smoking darts or having a punt at Flemington. Geez.

Lamby, I suggest you ring Visy Park and put the burger idea across to Brett Ratten for your boy Collins.

Actually burgers for Andy should be mandatory (upsized) ;D

What I am saying Scoop is we'd taken a risk on Relton and he is struggling either with the physical demands of the game or the disciplines. In play he is pretty much a free spirit. He's on a one year deal and he is likely to be cut - Why not say - 'Relton we can loosen up some criteria but you've got to give on others' - or "show us you can perfrom is we give you this latitude"

Also to be fair on Relton I believe he had a partner and child up north and was down here on rookie wages. All things considered you could undertsand why he was struggling and wanted to go home.

 

[GoodOne]

To be fair Goody, he was more productive at Hawks than with us including being fairly influential for them in beating us this year.

I always liked Peterson, he was the only one I was disappointed with us losing last year, but the point is he is no longer at the Hawks for the very same reason, he went AWOL. Does Clarkson therefore take the blame for his inability to keep him from going AWOL? No, it has nothing to do with coaching styles or inflexibility from a coaching aspect.

 

[lamb22]

To be fair, he's also 3 years older. Same fundamental issues were there though hence his delisting.

What do you put Edwards progression this year down to?

Oldie, Shane has been progressing form year 1 and showed in game 1 at Coburg at 18 he was classes above that level.

Only the Cassandras on PRE have been bagging this kid. Always needed to add size and ezperience to become a quality palyer, He has and will continue to do so

 

[Tigers of Old]

Oldie, Shane has been progressing form year 1 and showed in game 1 at Coburg at 18 he was classes above that level.

Developing well though isn't he.
Does the club get any credit for that? Or do we only kick them for the ones that fall over?

Only the Cassandras on PRE have been bagging this kid. Always needed to add size and ezperience to become a quality palyer, He has and will continue to do so

Yeah always thought he'd make it. Been a fan since day dot.

 

[Kel_Bolt]

I do not understand how people think you can rip a kid out of his home and expect him to conform to such a foreign AFL lifestyle, just because of athletic capability. A person's natural instinct to change is resistance, the change from an indigenous environment to Melbourne city life is enormous and something a majority could not appreciate.

An example of this is the story of Liam Jurrah found shaking in fear in his car at his first recovery session; he had seen the sea before but never swum in it. This is a tiny example how overwhelming the AFL system could be to an individual.

You cannot blame the individual, but the environment they grow up in.

RFC need to reassess their approach of managing these players, whether that learning from Melbourne Football Club or possibly an EPL club etc, i don't know, but the current process is clearly not working.