Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

Sintiger said:
I worked in the industry and I know what a nurse costs. This sort of analysis ignores a multitude of allowances and is very misleading.

But even so at $31.39 an hour that is $62k p.a for a nurse straight out of Uni with no experience. 56 hours a week they would be earning 18 hours at either 1 1/2 time, double time or even triple time for public holidays, they would get nights shift allowances as well. That would get them to close to $120 k even with none of the allowances they would get on top of that.

Nurses go up the scale very quickly, they get extra for working in different areas based on study they get paid for and time off for. These are base rates for nurses with no extra responsibilities and no certificates above a registered nurse (RN)

As I said there is a great argument that nurses don;t get paid enough but it is not as bad as these sorts of base rate tables show.
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The funny thing with these arguments, especially for the Murdoch press, they will present the salary of the bad guys and include all penalties and OT and present it as if its a base wage, but present the base wage of the good guys when the reality is there are penalties and allowances on top that everyone tends to get. Its the oldest trick in the tabloid book.
 
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Sintiger said:
I am no CFMEU fan, far from it, but lets put this into context.

20% over 4 years is about 4.7% a year compounded. As an ambit claim that is pretty standard for what we are seeing in all the Union claims now given the inflation rate. The Nurses union, Police, ambos are all asking for more when you factor in all the other stuff included. The nurses union EBA that they just voted down was more than that.

There are of course arguments about worth of each of those but the claim is not an unusually excessive one as an initial ambit claim.

Dan Andrews was initially supported by 3 major unions. The ANMF (nurses), the Firies union and the CFMEU. He delivered all the changes related to the CFA to the Firies and Lisa Fitzpatrick of the ANMF was colloquially known as the deputy premier behind closed doors when he was Premier. The new Premier has no such loyalties, their power is diminished.

The difference is also that the firies and nurses are public sector unions mainly so the government has a say in their EBAs but they don't in the construction industry.
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4.70% compounded or 5% whatever way you look at it will continue to cause inflation over the Reserve Bank target band. It will result in either higher interest rates or the remain what they are for longer as the economy cannot reduce its inflation to be lower than the target band.

Victoria’s debt is already out of control. A dud deal for all non CFMEU tax payers.
 
tigersnake said:
Just stuck in an application for the lollipop man gig, contacted my primary school lollipop lady for a ref, she's on board, bought a labcoat, I will be changing my handle to Tiger Lollipop. I can smell the folding gear right now, ka-chingo baby!
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Bengals has convinced me, imma quit my high paid corporate drone job and go work in the sun for about the same money.

Thanks Bengals and John Setka for setting this up.
 
MB78 said:
4.70% compounded or 5% whatever way you look at it will continue to cause inflation over the Reserve Bank target band. It will result in either higher interest rates or the remain what they are for longer as the economy cannot reduce its inflation to be lower than the target band.

Victoria’s debt is already out of control. A dud deal for all non CFMEU tax payers.
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Of course, record company profits and price-gouging have nothing to do with inflation, it's all the fault of working people.
 
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MB78 said:
4.70% compounded or 5% whatever way you look at it will continue to cause inflation over the Reserve Bank target band. It will result in either higher interest rates or the remain what they are for longer as the economy cannot reduce its inflation to be lower than the target band.

Victoria’s debt is already out of control. A dud deal for all non CFMEU tax payers.
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It is 4.7%. That’s just arithmetic.

I said it was an ambit claim not that they should get it. But whether they do or don’t has nothing to do with the state government. It is an EBA negotiation between a union and employers.

The debate about which comes first I.e. do wage increases fuel inflation or does inflation lead to wage increases, has been going on since I studied economics and that was a bloody long time ago.
 
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You know, all this talk about people earning $100k and that somehow being a low salary just shows how ill informed people are.

The average salary is $90k and the median $80k.

That's right, half of all wage earners earn less than $80k.

So, I don't think there are a pile of really wealthy unskilled workers out there. Yes, some construction workers might get paid what seems a salary beyond some arbitrary notion of the value of their worth, but a lot of this comes from allowances and shift loadings for working unsociable hours. I would think there would be some compensation for the risks of working as a traffic controller too.

Anyone who has worked shift work knows how much it affects your life, there are very good reasons for shift allowances. Working overtime means less time with family, less time going to bands or the footy, you end up more tired - this deserves compensation.

DS
 
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MB78 said:
4.70% compounded or 5% whatever way you look at it will continue to cause inflation over the Reserve Bank target band. It will result in either higher interest rates or the remain what they are for longer as the economy cannot reduce its inflation to be lower than the target band.

Victoria’s debt is already out of control. A dud deal for all non CFMEU tax payers.
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But somehow increases in profit margins, and the increase in the profit share of income has no relationship to inflation?

Give me a break, even the OECD found that Unit Profits contributed more to the rise in inflation than unit labour costs.

Businesses push prices up when they think they can get away with it, and the disruptions arising from the COVID pandemic gave them a great excuse to push prices up - which they did with alacrity. We know this as the profit share of income rose with the outbreak of inflation - it was the cause of the inflation, and they continue to increase prices.

Now we get the Reserve Bank saying we need more unemployment to get inflation under control. All on the basis of their loopy economic theories. So, inflation caused by increasing profits but it is employees who are to bear the brunt of the supposed solution. I don't see why people should lose their livelihood to satisfy some theoretical notion that inflation should be in the Reserve Bank's preferred range.

DS
 
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DavidSSS said:
But somehow increases in profit margins, and the increase in the profit share of income has no relationship to inflation?

Give me a break, even the OECD found that Unit Profits contributed more to the rise in inflation than unit labour costs.

Businesses push prices up when they think they can get away with it, and the disruptions arising from the COVID pandemic gave them a great excuse to push prices up - which they did with alacrity. We know this as the profit share of income rose with the outbreak of inflation - it was the cause of the inflation, and they continue to increase prices.

Now we get the Reserve Bank saying we need more unemployment to get inflation under control. All on the basis of their loopy economic theories. So, inflation caused by increasing profits but it is employees who are to bear the brunt of the supposed solution. I don't see why people should lose their livelihood to satisfy some theoretical notion that inflation should be in the Reserve Bank's preferred range.

DS
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The inflation post the pandemic was definitely caused by much of this, it could not possibly have been wages. It was also "imported inflation" which is the massive increase in the price of imported goods due to shortages and supply chain disruptions and also rents and energy costs.
There is a massive group of Australians who have never been compensated through wages for these cost increases
 
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Sintiger said:
What I can tell you as a fact and not an opinion is that in awarding Victorian state government construction tenders there is no requirement for any builder to use CFMEU members as labour included in the tender response nor is it included in the decision making process.
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Haaarrrgh FMD Sinnerman. Try running that line past the CFMEU.
There will never be anything official written in the contractural paperwork because that would be " illegal " under Aust industry law. But it's amazing what happens without the law even acknowledging WTF is going on right in front of it. Unions, especially the CFMEU have a thousand work around manipulations to the industrial "laws " and are happy to utilise every single fudge they can to break anyone and anything that stands in their way.
 
TigerMasochist said:
Haaarrrgh FMD Sinnerman. Try running that line past the CFMEU.
There will never be anything official written in the contractural paperwork because that would be " illegal " under Aust industry law. But it's amazing what happens without the law even acknowledging WTF is going on right in front of it. Unions, especially the CFMEU have a thousand work around manipulations to the industrial "laws " and are happy to utilise every single fudge they can to break anyone and anything that stands in their way.
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You need to follow the context of the statement TM.

The post was in relation to a statement from Bengal that the CFMEU has the state government in their pocket and they don't donate money to the ALP for nothing. My reply was a simple statement of fact that the state government procurement rules do not require tender respondents and successful construction tenderers to employ CFMEU affiliated workers. That is not an opinion, it is a fact. What is also a fact is that contracts are let to construction firms without any requirement to employ CFMEU affiliated workers.

Whether a construction firm uses CFMEU workers on government contracts is totally up to them but it has nothing to do with anything the state government has in place and that was the context of the discussion and post.
 
Sintiger said:
You need to follow the context of the statement TM.

The post was in relation to a statement from Bengal that the CFMEU has the state government in their pocket and they don't donate money to the ALP for nothing. My reply was a simple statement of fact that the state government procurement rules do not require tender respondents and successful construction tenderers to employ CFMEU affiliated workers. That is not an opinion, it is a fact. What is also a fact is that contracts are let to construction firms without any requirement to employ CFMEU affiliated workers.

Whether a construction firm uses CFMEU workers on government contracts is totally up to them but it has nothing to do with anything the state government has in place and that was the context of the discussion and post.
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As I said before and will say again Sinner, regardless of what's written in the rule book, try getting any of this past the CFMEU. Simply does not happen, 'coz the CFMEU plays the game by their own rules and everyone else can simply tag along like good little Noddy dogs or suffer until such time as they learn to nod along to the CFMEU's beat.
 
TigerMasochist said:
As I said before and will say again Sinner, regardless of what's written in the rule book, try getting any of this past the CFMEU. Simply does not happen, 'coz the CFMEU plays the game by their own rules and everyone else can simply tag along like good little Noddy dogs or suffer until such time as they learn to nod along to the CFMEU's beat.
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Well once again TM you will see from earlier posts I am no apologist for the CFMEU but I do know some facts about what happens.

It is a fact you can contract builders in the public sector without any reference to the CFMEU. I know this because I have done it.
 
bengal tigers said:
When a lollipop holder gets 200k for working on the Victorian governments big projects, and will get 20percent pay rise over 4 years ,you know theres something seriously wrong with this picture.
That is more than what a lot of GP'S are getting.
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after the LNP destroyed bulk billing.

bengal tigers said:
Look at the donations from the CFMEU To the Labor party ,,they aren't donating for nothing.

https://www.afr.com/politics/federa...labor-surge-between-elections-20230202-p5chhr
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the CFMEU donate almost 2 million. Yet you don't blink at Clive Palmer spending $100 million in 2022 in an attempt to manipulate Australian democracy. How much money are the billionaire businessmen donating to Advance for their lying propaganda? Significantly more than $2 million I would suggest.

and the irony of you criticising unions when you use that avatar. Cookers know nothing about history.

MB78 said:
4.70% compounded or 5% whatever way you look at it will continue to cause inflation over the Reserve Bank target band. It will result in either higher interest rates or the remain what they are for longer as the economy cannot reduce its inflation to be lower than the target band.

Victoria’s debt is already out of control. A dud deal for all non CFMEU tax payers.
Click to expand...

The biggest cause of inflation (more than two thirds) is corporate profits. Source: Australian Institute
 
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Sintiger said:
I worked in the industry and I know what a nurse costs. This sort of analysis ignores a multitude of allowances and is very misleading.

But even so at $31.39 an hour that is $62k p.a for a nurse straight out of Uni with no experience. 56 hours a week they would be earning 18 hours at either 1 1/2 time, double time or even triple time for public holidays, they would get night shift allowances as well. That would get them to close to $120 k even with none of the allowances they would get on top of that.

Nurses go up the scale very quickly, they get extra for working in different areas based on study they get paid for and time off for. These are base rates for nurses with no extra responsibilities and no certificates above a registered nurse (RN)

As I said there is a great argument that nurses don;t get paid enough but it is not as bad as these sorts of base rate tables show.
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You must of worked in a lot of places Sin,your a expert in the health industry,and a expert on how tenders operate for construction.

Your pissing on the wrong tree if you think a entry level nurse earns anywhere near 200k a year,and that includes over time/night shifts etc.
Entry level lollipop holders earn 200k a year and MAY do 2 nights a week,,,thats ridiculous the mind boggles as to what qualified tradies working on the big builds are earning,,no wonder there is no investment into new projects from private and even the federal.government.

Lollipop holders get allowances as well,the Qld code is similar to Victoria.

200,000 reasons teachers, nurses and police should stop and go traffic controlling – Civil Contractors Federation

www.civilcontractors.com www.civilcontractors.com
 
Ian4 said:
after the LNP destroyed bulk billing.



the CFMEU donate almost 2 million. Yet you don't blink at Clive Palmer spending $100 million in 2022 in an attempt to manipulate Australian democracy. How much money are the billionaire businessmen donating to Advance for their lying propaganda? Significantly more than $2 million I would suggest.

and the irony of you criticising unions when you use that avatar. Cookers know nothing about history.



The biggest cause of inflation (more than two thirds) is corporate profits. Source: Australian Institute
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My doctor bulk bills and has for years,even thought l have private health insurance.

Clive Palmer spent his own money big deal,,,The CFMEU money is from members ,and it's a bit of a stretch to say they all vote labor.
 
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