Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

When you refer to Politicians who most are ex University Graduates you should remember this exchange between a snotty nosed Midshipman & a Veteran Navy Chief Petty Officer.

Snotty " As a Uni graduate I hardly fall into the category of the Village idiot do I Chief ".
Chief " That maybe so but most of the worlds problems are caused by Uni grads & not Village Idiots ".
 
Sintiger said:
I am no CFMEU fan, far from it, but lets put this into context.

20% over 4 years is about 4.7% a year compounded. As an ambit claim that is pretty standard for what we are seeing in all the Union claims now given the inflation rate. The Nurses union, Police, ambos are all asking for more when you factor in all the other stuff included. The nurses union EBA that they just voted down was more than that.

There are of course arguments about worth of each of those but the claim is not an unusually excessive one as an initial ambit claim.

Dan Andrews was initially supported by 3 major unions. The ANMF (nurses), the Firies union and the CFMEU. He delivered all the changes related to the CFA to the Firies and Lisa Fitzpatrick of the ANMF was colloquially known as the deputy premier behind closed doors when he was Premier. The new Premier has no such loyalties, their power is diminished.

The difference is also that the firies and nurses are public sector unions mainly so the government has a say in their EBAs but they don't in the construction industry.
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When a lollipop holder gets 200k for working on the Victorian governments big projects, and will get 20percent pay rise over 4 years ,you know theres something seriously wrong with this picture.
That is more than what a lot of GP'S are getting.
According to Setka the 200k is paid for 50hrs a week work ,so they are on roughly 80$ a hour,,lm sure nurses/police/firies etc would love that sort of money .

Imagine if nurses /doctors/police/etc went on strike for a week ,could you imagine the chaos ,and then the CFMEU members go on strike,life would go on as normal for the majority of the state.
The biggest issue we have is the CFMEU over value there importance ,they don't work they dont get paid ,and most of us wouldn't blink a eye lid ,,they would would soon find tradies willing to do the work for less pay .
Emergencies services on the other hand ,it would impact us all.
 
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bengal tigers said:
When a lollipop holder gets 200k for working on the Victorian governments big projects, and will get 20percent pay rise over 4 years ,you know theres something seriously wrong with this picture.
That is more than what a lot of GP'S are getting.
According to Setka the 200k is paid for 50hrs a week work ,so they are on roughly 80$ a hour,,lm sure nurses/police/firies etc would love that sort of money .

Imagine if nurses /doctors/police/etc went on strike for a week ,could you imagine the chaos ,and then the CFMEU members go on strike,life would go on as normal for the majority of the state.
The biggest issue we have is the CFMEU over value there importance ,they don't work they dont get paid ,and most of us wouldn't blink a eye lid ,,they would would soon find tradies willing to do the work for less pay .
Emergencies services on the other hand ,it would impact us all.
Click to expand...
I did say there is an argument about worth in my reply but to be clear the government does not pay CFMEU members to work on government projects, the lead contractor or sub contractors do.
Construction firms bid for contracts in tenders and they build the cost of labour into their prices.
The cost of construction workers is too high I agree but that has little to do with the state government directly.
 
bengal tigers said:
Get with the program Antman,CFMEU say jump and all the Labor departments say how high.
So the lollipop holders go from 200k a year to 240k...
Victoria the state that keeps on giving:bash
Click to expand...

So is this a fact based program or just a vibe?

Give me some examples of when the Labor government jumped according to a CFMEU directive and how high they jumped. Can't wait!

Lollipop holders getting $200k? Seems excessive. Seek has the average salary range in Melbourne as $60-80k pa.

www.seek.com.au

Traffic Controller Salary in AU (November, 2024) – SEEK

The average salary of a Traffic Controller in Australia is between $60,000 and $80,000.Discover the average Traffic Controller salary in your state and the salary for similar careers.
www.seek.com.au www.seek.com.au

As Sin said, probably depends a lot on the project and arrangements with the contractor. And how many hours.
 
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AngryAnt said:
So is this a fact based program or just a vibe?

Give me some examples of when the Labor government jumped according to a CFMEU directive and how high they jumped. Can't wait!

Lollipop holders getting $200k? Seems excessive. Seek has the average salary range in Melbourne as $60-80k pa.

www.seek.com.au

Traffic Controller Salary in AU (November, 2024) – SEEK

The average salary of a Traffic Controller in Australia is between $60,000 and $80,000.Discover the average Traffic Controller salary in your state and the salary for similar careers.
www.seek.com.au www.seek.com.au

As Sin said, probably depends a lot on the project and arrangements with the contractor.
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Id be curiosu how the Vic rate compares to other states. and how much of the supposed 200k is overtime on a Sunday night etc.
 
Brodders17 said:
Id be curiosu how the Vic rate compares to other states. and how much of the supposed 200k is overtime on a Sunday night etc.
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I saw Melbourne Tunnel traffic controllers can get up to $120k incl overtime.

Can't help but feel ol' Bengals got his data from the Daily Mail.

Edit - Bingo - tiktok influencer/thirst trap via the Daily Mail. Never let it be said that Bengals doesnt do some serious research.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Lollipop lady's jaw-dropping salary shocks Australia

A Sydney TikTok user shared a video during a week in April at her traffic controller job on construction sites and revealed the impressive amount she earns.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
AngryAnt said:
I saw Melbourne Tunnel traffic controllers can get up to $120k incl overtime.

Can't help but feel ol' Bengals got his data from the Daily Mail.

Edit - Bingo - tiktok influencer/thirst trap via the Daily Mail. Never let it be said that Bengals doesnt do some serious research.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Lollipop lady's jaw-dropping salary shocks Australia

A Sydney TikTok user shared a video during a week in April at her traffic controller job on construction sites and revealed the impressive amount she earns.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
As usual shoot off your mouth without looking...
au.finance.yahoo.com

Reason entry-level Aussie road traffic controllers earn $200,000 a year: 'So dangerous'

CFMEU Victorian secretary John Setka hit back at the claim these tradies stand around and do nothing all day.
au.finance.yahoo.com au.finance.yahoo.com

Now if you want more info look it up yourself ,if your capable.....
 
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Sintiger said:
I did say there is an argument about worth in my reply but to be clear the government does not pay CFMEU members to work on government projects, the lead contractor or sub contractors do.
Construction firms bid for contracts in tenders and they build the cost of labour into their prices.
The cost of construction workers is too high I agree but that has little to do with the state government directly.
Click to expand...
Look at the donations from the CFMEU To the Labor party ,,they aren't donating for nothing.

https://www.afr.com/politics/federa...labor-surge-between-elections-20230202-p5chhr
 
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bengal tigers said:
Look at the donations from the CFMEU To the Labor party ,,they aren't donating for nothing.

https://www.afr.com/politics/federa...labor-surge-between-elections-20230202-p5chhr
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If you look into posts on this thread you will see me comment on how the ALP is compromised by it's reliance on Union donations. (As the Liberal party is by so many of it's donations from business groups and the like.) I am a supporter of good unions and a big critic of bad ones but I am not a fan of the role they play in the ALP. (Of course the history of the ALP is related to the Union movement)

What I can tell you as a fact and not an opinion is that in awarding Victorian state government construction tenders there is no requirement for any builder to use CFMEU members as labour included in the tender response nor is it included in the decision making process. As I said I am not giving you an opinion on this because I know this to be the case because I have done it and I know what the Victorian government purchasing rules are.
 
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bengal tigers said:
As usual shoot off your mouth without looking...
au.finance.yahoo.com

Reason entry-level Aussie road traffic controllers earn $200,000 a year: 'So dangerous'

CFMEU Victorian secretary John Setka hit back at the claim these tradies stand around and do nothing all day.
au.finance.yahoo.com au.finance.yahoo.com

Now if you want more info look it up yourself ,if your capable.....
Click to expand...


yeah, I did. Turns out you have to work a 56 hour 6 day week.

"When asked whether he thinks it's okay for tradies to earn more than $200,000 when other professions like nurses, teachers and paramedics earn comparatively much less, he agreed that they are all underpaid for what they do.

The $206,000 salary for a road traffic controller on a CFMEU site in Victoria is based off a six-day, 56-hour work week.

They receive a base rate of $49 per hour and that doubles to $98 an hour for 16 hours of double time. They also get $315 for a travel allowance, $186 for a meal allowance on overtime, and $280 for a site allowance on mega projects.

That works out to be $4,309 per week and $206,832 per year.

Night shift pay isn't all it's cracked up to be​

Setka admitted the hefty $200,000 salary only comes when a worker is doing several hours of overtime a week or doing back-to-back night shifts.

While that might be attractive to some people, he said it's not for everyone."
 
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AngryAnt said:
yeah, I did. Turns out you have to work a 56 hour 6 day week.

"When asked whether he thinks it's okay for tradies to earn more than $200,000 when other professions like nurses, teachers and paramedics earn comparatively much less, he agreed that they are all underpaid for what they do.

The $206,000 salary for a road traffic controller on a CFMEU site in Victoria is based off a six-day, 56-hour work week.

They receive a base rate of $49 per hour and that doubles to $98 an hour for 16 hours of double time. They also get $315 for a travel allowance, $186 for a meal allowance on overtime, and $280 for a site allowance on mega projects.

That works out to be $4,309 per week and $206,832 per year.

Night shift pay isn't all it's cracked up to be​

Setka admitted the hefty $200,000 salary only comes when a worker is doing several hours of overtime a week or doing back-to-back night shifts.

While that might be attractive to some people, he said it's not for everyone."
Click to expand...
200K A YEAR TO HOLD A LOLLIPOP SIGN ,YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DO 2 NIGHTS A WEEK ...
A nurse who works night shift for 56hrs a week full time,,would earn 2200 A WEEK AROUND 120K A YEAR .

You would think we have a massive problem with our priorities ,,Government big projects are more important than health and safety.
 
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bengal tigers said:
200K A YEAR TO HOLD A LOLLIPOP SIGN ,YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DO 2 NIGHTS A WEEK ...
A nurse who works night shift for 56hrs a week full time,,would earn 2200 A WEEK AROUND 120K A YEAR .

You would think we have a massive problem with our priorities ,,Government big projects are more important than health and safety.
Click to expand...

Yes I've noticed you campaigning tirelessly for increased pay for nurses in the past.
 
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bengal tigers said:
200K A YEAR TO HOLD A LOLLIPOP SIGN ,YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DO 2 NIGHTS A WEEK ...
A nurse who works night shift for 56hrs a week full time,,would earn 2200 A WEEK AROUND 120K A YEAR .

You would think we have a massive problem with our priorities ,,Government big projects are more important than health and safety.
Click to expand...
There is no way that a nurse working 56 hours a week including night shifts and weekends earns $120k, it would be more than that, even if they are just an RN in first year. There are lots of different grades of nurses and they get various allowances but even for an entry level nurse it would be probably more than that.

Average cost of a nurse across the public sector per base EFT (no overtime or allowances) is about $110-120k. They get 5-6 weeks leave p.a., they get an education allowance and study leave.

They also get salary packaging allowances ( some tax free salary) by working in the public sector or for Charitable NFPs ( like Epworth, Cabrini, Mercy etc)

I am not saying nurses get paid well but don't understate it. Nurses get paid better than teachers as an example, certainly their opportunity to claim overtime is way better.
 
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Just stuck in an application for the lollipop man gig, contacted my primary school lollipop lady for a ref, she's on board, bought a labcoat, I will be changing my handle to Tiger Lollipop. I can smell the folding gear right now, ka-chingo baby!
 
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Sintiger said:
There is no way that a nurse working 56 hours a week including night shifts and weekends earns $120k, it would be more than that, even if they are just an RN in first year. There are lots of different grades of nurses and they get various allowances but even for an entry level nurse it would be probably more than that.

Average cost of a nurse across the public sector per base EFT (no overtime or allowances) is about $110-120k. They get 5-6 weeks leave p.a., they get an education allowance and study leave.

They also get salary packaging allowances ( some tax free salary) by working in the public sector or for Charitable NFPs ( like Epworth, Cabrini, Mercy etc)

I am not saying nurses get paid well but don't understate it. Nurses get paid better than teachers as an example, certainly their opportunity to claim overtime is way better.
Click to expand...
www.medshop.com.au

Nurse Salary Guide 2024 (Updated) | Medshop Australia

Explore the most up-to-date Nurse Salary Guide for 2024. Get insights on average salaries, regional differences, experience levels, and more.
www.medshop.com.au www.medshop.com.au
 
bengal tigers said:
www.medshop.com.au

Nurse Salary Guide 2024 (Updated) | Medshop Australia

Explore the most up-to-date Nurse Salary Guide for 2024. Get insights on average salaries, regional differences, experience levels, and more.
www.medshop.com.au www.medshop.com.au
Click to expand...
I worked in the industry and I know what a nurse costs. This sort of analysis ignores a multitude of allowances and is very misleading.

But even so at $31.39 an hour that is $62k p.a for a nurse straight out of Uni with no experience. 56 hours a week they would be earning 18 hours at either 1 1/2 time, double time or even triple time for public holidays, they would get night shift allowances as well. That would get them to close to $120 k even with none of the allowances they would get on top of that.

Nurses go up the scale very quickly, they get extra for working in different areas based on study they get paid for and time off for. These are base rates for nurses with no extra responsibilities and no certificates above a registered nurse (RN)

As I said there is a great argument that nurses don;t get paid enough but it is not as bad as these sorts of base rate tables show.
 
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