Silvester (Merged)

[mark davey]

he got beaten badly

his selection also forced Rance into the midfield. Rance was sitting in the centre square for most of the 2nd quarter - not sure what his clearance experience is like but he was beaten badly as well.

 

[BrisTiger24]

Did some good things with the ball. Got soundly beaten in marking contests. But given the way the ball was coming in, that is somewhat understandable from a first gamer. I'd continue to play him for the remainder of the year, giving him the big jobs to see if he can develop. No point judging him on one game where we failed to score for over half a game.

 

[Rosy]

Re: All the best to the big cat

Not really, but I did notice that he was beaten in 80% of the one on one marking contests and even beaten several times on the lead by Kosi.....not up to this level.

Jarrod had 1 contested mark and 6 uncontested. Kosi had 4 contested and 4 uncontested. It's a different perspective if you say that 80% was based on only 4 marks.

Jarrod had more possessions than Kosi and also had 5 1%ers. If Joel had been in the team he would have had the nous and experience to support Jarrod making Kosi's job far harder.

Silvestor had quite a good game. Kosi had his kicking boots on but if his accuracy wasn't quite as radared Jarrod could well have been given the points on the night.

I wonder who those bagging him think would have been a better match up, and if so why weren't they given the job?

 

[GoodOne]

I agree, Sivestor handled himself quite well for a first gamer especially considering how frequently the ball was coming down. Yes he got beaten but Kosi is no slouch. Deserves to play a few more games to gain experience. I agree though that we can't have all of Silvestor, Thursfield, Moore, McGuane and Rance in the side.

 

[shamekha]

Re: All the best to the big cat

Jarrod had 1 contested mark and 6 uncontested. Kosi had 4 contested and 4 uncontested. It's a different perspective if you say that 80% was based on only 4 marks.

Jarrod had more possessions than Kosi and also had 5 1%ers. If Joel had been in the team he would have had the nous and experience to support Jarrod making Kosi's job far harder.

Silvestor had quite a good game. Kosi had his kicking boots on but if his accuracy wasn't quite as radared Jarrod could well have been given the points on the night.

I wonder who those bagging him think would have been a better match up, and if so why weren't they given the job?

Well said Rosy i thought our he and our backline did quite well.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: All the best to the big cat

Jarrod had 1 contested mark and 6 uncontested. Kosi had 4 contested and 4 uncontested. It's a different perspective if you say that 80% was based on only 4 marks.

Jarrod had more possessions than Kosi and also had 5 1%ers. If Joel had been in the team he would have had the nous and experience to support Jarrod making Kosi's job far harder.

Silvestor had quite a good game. Kosi had his kicking boots on but if his accuracy wasn't quite as radared Jarrod could well have been given the points on the night.

I wonder who those bagging him think would have been a better match up, and if so why weren't they given the job?

Silvester wasn't disgraced on the night, but he was definately soundly beaten. To concede 4 contested marks is an extremely high number.

Of the 5 leading contested mark takers this year. Brown, Reiwoldt, Kozi, Bradshaw & Fev. Only Kozi (once with 5) has taken more in a game all year.

 

[Rosy]

Re: All the best to the big cat

Of the 5 leading contested mark takers this year. Brown, Reiwoldt, Kozi, Bradshaw & Fev. Only Kozi (once with 5) has taken more in a game all year.

I don't think Kosi having 3 more contested marks than Jarrod is that unexpected or terrible. It's evened out more by Jarrod having more uncontested marks too. That's a couple of extra times the ball headed back our way rather than though the Saint's goal sticks.

I'm not saying Jarrod won on the night but he wasn't entirely to blame for Kosi's performance like some make out. When a team doesn't score for 80 or whatever minutes it's fair to assume the opposition forwards will see a fair bit more than usual of the ball. Our lack of pressure elsewhere, not Silvestor's fault, resulted in very precise and classy delivery to him.

You've singled out the elite of the game. They beat most backmen. Nobody would claim Jarrod was an AA backman but he was playing his first AFL game and, all things considered, he can hold his head up high. Plenty of his more lauded and renowned team mates couldn't do the same.

 

[tbartiger]

Agree with most that he is not the future and may not be up to it, but definitely not our worst.

I think our back six need to give our midfielders a kick in the arse. Their job would be a lot easier if our mids showed the slightest interest in putting some pressure on the kickers.

 

[Gordietiger]

Thought he was OK!

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: All the best to the big cat

I don't think Kosi having 3 more contested marks than Jarrod is that unexpected or terrible. It's evened out more by Jarrod having more uncontested marks too. That's a couple of extra times the ball headed back our way rather than though the Saint's goal sticks.

Uncontested marks by defenders are among the most meaningless stats in the game. Its generally sideways chipping that the opposition is glad to give up.

Guys like Bret Thornton who is 2nd in the overall marks shows how easy it is to rack up these on the last line of defence. It is also why McGuane takes so many marks for us.

I'm not saying Jarrod won on the night but he wasn't entirely to blame for Kosi's performance like some make out. When a team doesn't score for 80 or whatever minutes it's fair to assume the opposition forwards will see a fair bit more than usual of the ball. Our lack of pressure elsewhere, not Silvestor's fault, resulted in very precise and classy delivery to him.

Agreed the ball was down there a lot & as leysy said Silvester wasn't disgraced despite being soundly beaten. But on the precise delivery to kozi, leysy's not so sure. Could you explain to leysy if it was so precise how Kozi needed to take as many contested grabs as he did uncontested... Surely precise delivery would mean he could take nearly all of his marks uncontested.

You've singled out the elite of the game. They beat most backmen.

Yes they do. But its still extremely rare for any of them to take as many big marks as Kozi was able (or allowed) to do last night.

 

[GoodOne]

Re: All the best to the big cat

Silvester wasn't disgraced on the night, but he was definately soundly beaten. To concede 4 contested marks is an extremely high number.

Better than heaps of uncontested marks no? Means at least he was pressuring and lets face it the supply was endless. Also started very well on Kosi, maybe the added fitness required at AFL level found him out a bit. Will benefit from the experience.

 

[Dyer'ere]

I didn't think Silvester was too bad. Nothing to get excited about but maybe a stop gap while we rebuild. He was standing under a leather storm and there's nothing you can do when their mids are sending the ball in under no pressure.

Not a bad debut.

By comparison, Muscles McGuane flogged Nick Riewoldt in equally trying circumstances. But he couldn't lend much support to the big cat coz he was watching his own opponent closely.

That left Polo (is he 80kegs?) to fill the holes. It was with Polo in front and the Big Cat earthbound behind that Kosi took his biannual pack mark. Meh.

Unlike pretty much all of his team mates (are there three exceptions?) Silvester is built for the game.

 

[TOT70]

I thought Sylvester did well for a first gamer. He showed more poise than a 20 year old might, but them he has played a lot of footy already at a reasonable level.

I agree with Leysy that he was well beaten by Kosi in the marking duels. He was generally caught behind and didn't have the strength in the air to go with him. Dodgy kicking under pressure didn't help his cause. All up, he did OK though, for a first gamer adjusting to a quicker tempo. HE has the pace of the game now though.

Personally, I would play him in each of the next four games. The Adelaide game will offer a matchup against a youngster, either Tippett or Walker, then I would give him Fevola. Then its Melb and I would expect him to win that matchup regardless of who he plays on. His fifth game will be on Lloyd.

Sink or swim. They should be able to make up their mind on him after that. As a 24 year old, he has to be competitive against the likes of Fevola, Kosi and Lloyd right now or there is no real AFL future.

May as well find out in the next month.

 

[rickyvaughn99]

Re: All the best to the big cat

Jarrod had 1 contested mark and 6 uncontested. Kosi had 4 contested and 4 uncontested. It's a different perspective if you say that 80% was based on only 4 marks.

Jarrod had more possessions than Kosi and also had 5 1%ers. If Joel had been in the team he would have had the nous and experience to support Jarrod making Kosi's job far harder.

Silvestor had quite a good game. Kosi had his kicking boots on but if his accuracy wasn't quite as radared Jarrod could well have been given the points on the night.

I wonder who those bagging him think would have been a better match up, and if so why weren't they given the job?

Well this week it was Kosi that was an ok match-up on paper as Kosi is one of only a few tall key-forwards that are lacking leg-speed (which he makes up for in height). Can we see him being able to defend the likes of Fev, Buddy or J.Brown? As he is purely a defender, these are the jobs he will have to compete with each week.

Let's be realistic about this, our backline is already stacked with non-users of the footy. How can you expect a team to compete at the top level with K.Moore, Thursfield, McGuane and Slyvester all running around in the same backline? They are all dour, negating defenders that cannot use the ball by foot and do not have the leg speed to break or run-through the lines.

If you compare the two backlines from the weekend the Saints had Dawson and Hudgson who are both not quick and purely defensive, then working around them they had Gilbert, Goddard, Gram and Fisher rebounding the ball out quickly and setting up attacking drives. What is attacking about any of the four Richmond backmen I have mentioned? you cannot carry four of these types and win games, it is very simple.

On the other hand the Richmond midfield is riddled with lazy types that will only run both ways and apply pressure to the ball carrier when they are finding the ball themselves and they have their tails up. When the ball is coming down at the speed that we allowed anyone would have given up goals, I just don't see the longevity of a guy like Slyvester, and if you are going to play him it has to be at the price of leaving one of the other three younger, more talented and far better prospects out.

I hope I am proven wrong.

 

[BrisTiger24]

I didn't think Silvester was too bad. Nothing to get excited about but maybe a stop gap while we rebuild. He was standing under a leather storm and there's nothing you can do when their mids are sending the ball in under no pressure.

Not a bad debut.

By comparison, Muscles McGuane flogged Nick Riewoldt in equally trying circumstances. But he couldn't lend much support to the big cat coz he was watching his own opponent closely.

That left Polo (is he 80kegs?) to fill the holes. It was with Polo in front and the Big Cat earthbound behind that Kosi took his biannual pack mark. Meh.

Unlike pretty much all of his team mates (are there three exceptions?) Silvester is built for the game.

Good synopsis Jack. Agree, Lukey had the better of Riewoldt but that took all his effort. Polo, to his credit, was brave on a number of occasions in jumping in front of Kosi but just not big enough. Would have liked to have seen Rance released to play back in that role.

 

[Rosy]

Re: All the best to the big cat

..... I just don't see the longevity of a guy like Slyvester, and if you are going to play him it has to be at the price of leaving one of the other three younger, more talented and far better prospects out.

Younger by 1 or 2 years isn't a massive difference and not a great relevance imo.  Jarrod has had a lot of valuable experience in that time.  When we had reserves players like Tiva and Andy Kellaway had heaps of experience before they slotted into the senior team.

More talented is subjective when you compare different roles.  There are many different kinds of talents required in a team.

Better prospect is purely speculative and that's why I'm happy to see Jarrod given a decent chance to show what he can do.

It seems to me a few posters got stuck into Jarrod's selection before the game, based on their superior knowledge from observing Coburg, but he did enough to warrant being given a go at the big time.  Better than letting a player go without ever trying them out.

Jarrod did enough to have another crack when match-ups suit his style of play.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: All the best to the big cat

Well this week it was Kosi that was an ok match-up on paper as Kosi is one of only a few tall key-forwards that are lacking leg-speed (which he makes up for in height). Can we see him being able to defend the likes of Fev, Buddy or J.Brown? As he is purely a defender, these are the jobs he will have to compete with each week.

Let's be realistic about this, our backline is already stacked with non-users of the footy. How can you expect a team to compete at the top level with K.Moore, Thursfield, McGuane and Slyvester all running around in the same backline? They are all dour, negating defenders that cannot use the ball by foot and do not have the leg speed to break or run-through the lines.

If you compare the two backlines from the weekend the Saints had Dawson and Hudgson who are both not quick and purely defensive, then working around them they had Gilbert, Goddard, Gram and Fisher rebounding the ball out quickly and setting up attacking drives. What is attacking about any of the four Richmond backmen I have mentioned? you cannot carry four of these types and win games, it is very simple.

On the other hand the Richmond midfield is riddled with lazy types that will only run both ways and apply pressure to the ball carrier when they are finding the ball themselves and they have their tails up. When the ball is coming down at the speed that we allowed anyone would have given up goals, I just don't see the longevity of a guy like Slyvester, and if you are going to play him it has to be at the price of leaving one of the other three younger, more talented and far better prospects out.

I hope I am proven wrong.

Excellent post that Michael Vaughan. Especially on the skill & run of the respective backlines.

Teams have sweated on particular backline players of ours for a long long time.

 

[Redford]

Re: All the best to the big cat

Well this week it was Kosi that was an ok match-up on paper as Kosi is one of only a few tall key-forwards that are lacking leg-speed (which he makes up for in height). Can we see him being able to defend the likes of Fev, Buddy or J.Brown? As he is purely a defender, these are the jobs he will have to compete with each week.

Let's be realistic about this, our backline is already stacked with non-users of the footy. How can you expect a team to compete at the top level with K.Moore, Thursfield, McGuane and Slyvester all running around in the same backline? They are all dour, negating defenders that cannot use the ball by foot and do not have the leg speed to break or run-through the lines.

If you compare the two backlines from the weekend the Saints had Dawson and Hudgson who are both not quick and purely defensive, then working around them they had Gilbert, Goddard, Gram and Fisher rebounding the ball out quickly and setting up attacking drives. What is attacking about any of the four Richmond backmen I have mentioned? you cannot carry four of these types and win games, it is very simple.

On the other hand the Richmond midfield is riddled with lazy types that will only run both ways and apply pressure to the ball carrier when they are finding the ball themselves and they have their tails up. When the ball is coming down at the speed that we allowed anyone would have given up goals, I just don't see the longevity of a guy like Slyvester, and if you are going to play him it has to be at the price of leaving one of the other three younger, more talented and far better prospects out.

I hope I am proven wrong.

Good post.

Silvestor was always up against it the way the Saints managed to get their forward line open and deliver quickly, but he is (as you point out) way too slow. Kosi always had a yard or two on him, and Kosi aint that quick.

Good VFL player.

 

[Dyer Disciple]

Re: All the best to the big cat

Good VFL player.

Indeed. It's sad when the only thing a player playing his first game offers is some decent kicking/field kicking skills. Too slow and not agile enough for the AFL. Just one more of the "comprimised" types we have accepted onto our list that are just not up to it at the highest level.

I also question how many talls we went in with, nothing was going to affect the end result but our structure was all wrong for a game we decide to bring him in for. Too top heavy.

 

[Streak]

Re: All the best to the big cat

Indeed. It's sad when the only thing a player playing his first game offers is some decent kicking/field kicking skills. Too slow and not agile enough for the AFL. Just one more of the "comprimised" types we have accepted onto our list that are just not up to it at the highest level.

Not disagreeing, but interesting to note that you thought he brought decent kicking skills to the game. Must be one of the few recent recruits we have had to do this.