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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Pick 9 ND 2012 – Who should we pick?
- Thread starter AstuteTiger
- Start date
I am not on the medical gravy train but I have heard that the Lars surgery can have the knee functioning before the surrounding tissue has sufficiently healed and can carry the knee stress that early recovery can produce. Lars might have a long term negative impact on the knee joint surfaces.
This could be the source of further injury of knees.
This could be the source of further injury of knees.
Anyone else head spinning from the words used on this thread. :upside
A little bit longer than old leysy's normal vocabulary. ;D
A little bit longer than old leysy's normal vocabulary. ;D
Have to apologise for my irrationally overbearing previous post, was having a foul day at work, didn't mean to sound so confrontational.
Also frustrated at having similar arguments about Troy Menzel previously.
Yes, as various posters have pointed out, (with lots of reasearch) there are familial genetic links in some cases of structurally unsound joints resulting in ACL ruptures, as well as genetic links to weaknesses in connective tissue, I did not mean to suggest that there could not be a genetic cause to ACL ruptures.
What i meant to say is that Troy's knees can in no way be interpreted as being genetically linked to Daniels. And, based on such a small sample size of incidences, it is scientifically unsound to conclude that Troy is predisposed to any further injury.
It has been revealed that Troy's initial knee reco was due to an injury sustained through IMPACT, which does not point to a weakness in the knee necessarily, and could happen to anyone regardless of genetics.
This is an understandable point of concern initially, as any player who has had serious injury would need to be assessed carefully.
What irks me, somewhat, is pointing to the problems of his brother as evidence for not drafting him. I would like to see how many family members physicalities are assessed when drafting new players, and whether, if Daniel had the injuries, but wasn't well known, people would be as worried about Troy's knees as much. I doubt that on one previous, (and reportedly very strong and stable currently) knee problem, Troy's talents would be overlooked so easily.
I don't know that we can assume they have the same genetic flaws, it doesn't seem very sound to me. Unless we can grab some cheek scrapings off them and do a quick PCR. Better yet, lets do whole genome sequencing of every potential draftee to assess their natural endurance, power, structural qualiieis... It's getting close to about a thousand bucks a pop now anyway.
Yes, Daniels injuries were innocuous, and point to structural issues, Troy's injury was not, and does not necessarily. Indeed, rumours of a clean bill of health, and rumours of him sliding up the draft order suggest some medico's have assessed his issues, and given him a pass. Julian Feller certainly has.
Yes there is a familial disposition to some presentations of the injury, but I think it would take further research into this particular pair to assess whether there is actually a link between these two. There could be, but I wouldn't ignore him based on could be.
Also frustrated at having similar arguments about Troy Menzel previously.
Yes, as various posters have pointed out, (with lots of reasearch) there are familial genetic links in some cases of structurally unsound joints resulting in ACL ruptures, as well as genetic links to weaknesses in connective tissue, I did not mean to suggest that there could not be a genetic cause to ACL ruptures.
What i meant to say is that Troy's knees can in no way be interpreted as being genetically linked to Daniels. And, based on such a small sample size of incidences, it is scientifically unsound to conclude that Troy is predisposed to any further injury.
It has been revealed that Troy's initial knee reco was due to an injury sustained through IMPACT, which does not point to a weakness in the knee necessarily, and could happen to anyone regardless of genetics.
This is an understandable point of concern initially, as any player who has had serious injury would need to be assessed carefully.
What irks me, somewhat, is pointing to the problems of his brother as evidence for not drafting him. I would like to see how many family members physicalities are assessed when drafting new players, and whether, if Daniel had the injuries, but wasn't well known, people would be as worried about Troy's knees as much. I doubt that on one previous, (and reportedly very strong and stable currently) knee problem, Troy's talents would be overlooked so easily.
I don't know that we can assume they have the same genetic flaws, it doesn't seem very sound to me. Unless we can grab some cheek scrapings off them and do a quick PCR. Better yet, lets do whole genome sequencing of every potential draftee to assess their natural endurance, power, structural qualiieis... It's getting close to about a thousand bucks a pop now anyway.
Yes, Daniels injuries were innocuous, and point to structural issues, Troy's injury was not, and does not necessarily. Indeed, rumours of a clean bill of health, and rumours of him sliding up the draft order suggest some medico's have assessed his issues, and given him a pass. Julian Feller certainly has.
Yes there is a familial disposition to some presentations of the injury, but I think it would take further research into this particular pair to assess whether there is actually a link between these two. There could be, but I wouldn't ignore him based on could be.
Mayes pic 13? to GC if he is there at pic 9 no way should RFC pass him up over Vlastuin...
From Inside Footballs Draft Edition
1. GWS - Lachie Whitfield
2. GWS - Jimmy Toumpas
3. GWS - Jonathan O'Rourke
4. Melbourne - Oliver Wines
5. Western Bulldogs - Jackson Macrae
6. Western Bulldogs - Troy Menzel
7. Port Adelaide - Brodie Grundy
8. Brisbane - Lachie Plowman
9. Richmond - Nick Vlastuin
10. Essendon - Joe Daniher
11. Carlton - Kristian Jacksch
12. GWS - Tom Clurey
13. Gold Coast - Sam Mayes
14. GWS - Jake Stringer
15. North Melbourne - Ben Kennedy
16. Geelong - Jesse Lonergan
17. Fremantle - Mason Shaw
18. Collingwood - Josh Simpson
19. Collingwood - Taylor Garner
20. Adelaide - Dayle Garlett
21. Collingwood - Sam Colquhoun
22. Western Bulldogs - Tim Membrey
23. Sydney - Tanner Smith
24. Brisbane - Matthew Haynes
From Inside Footballs Draft Edition
1. GWS - Lachie Whitfield
2. GWS - Jimmy Toumpas
3. GWS - Jonathan O'Rourke
4. Melbourne - Oliver Wines
5. Western Bulldogs - Jackson Macrae
6. Western Bulldogs - Troy Menzel
7. Port Adelaide - Brodie Grundy
8. Brisbane - Lachie Plowman
9. Richmond - Nick Vlastuin
10. Essendon - Joe Daniher
11. Carlton - Kristian Jacksch
12. GWS - Tom Clurey
13. Gold Coast - Sam Mayes
14. GWS - Jake Stringer
15. North Melbourne - Ben Kennedy
16. Geelong - Jesse Lonergan
17. Fremantle - Mason Shaw
18. Collingwood - Josh Simpson
19. Collingwood - Taylor Garner
20. Adelaide - Dayle Garlett
21. Collingwood - Sam Colquhoun
22. Western Bulldogs - Tim Membrey
23. Sydney - Tanner Smith
24. Brisbane - Matthew Haynes
Would be a good result for us if GWS pick up O'Rourke at 3.
Really hope we have a good get slider at 9.
If Grundy is available then we pick him.
Derrickx can go next year so we will have Maric, Vickery, Grundy and a late draft/rookie draft ruckman.
Our ruck stocks are set for years.
Really hope we have a good get slider at 9.
If Grundy is available then we pick him.
Derrickx can go next year so we will have Maric, Vickery, Grundy and a late draft/rookie draft ruckman.
Our ruck stocks are set for years.
More people do seem to be predicting Mayes as a slider now. Him or Macrae would be an excellent result.
Back to it.
I know notthing about the juniors this year nooooothing havent seen a minute of the juniors this season past.
Mayes, Macrae and Grundy seem to be the boys gathering momentum here when it was Kennedy 6 months back now Vlastuin.
Some very astute junior watchers here i appreciate and value their opinions on the juniors are these 3 boys simply a better fit for the Tigers than say Vlastuin.
We hear Vlastuin is a solid citizen, a leader wins the footy and has very good disposal and decision making skills yet a bit of a question mark over his ability to get the aerobic capacity to go through as a specialist midfielder, sounds very much like Conca in writing are they similar or nothing alike. Vlastuin has the traits the RFC is in need of apart from turn of foot and query over tank.
Macrae became very popular after the finals series and Mayes was always out of reach, Grundy if we could nigh on guarantee grab Tyson next year would be a great result list wise and structure but would he want to go back to SA thus taking a local boy would take out the go home factor.
What are the strengths of Macrae and Mayes?
So many varaibles and connotations spose we can count on this at least we will gain a very good player this year who will join the 22.
I know notthing about the juniors this year nooooothing havent seen a minute of the juniors this season past.
Mayes, Macrae and Grundy seem to be the boys gathering momentum here when it was Kennedy 6 months back now Vlastuin.
Some very astute junior watchers here i appreciate and value their opinions on the juniors are these 3 boys simply a better fit for the Tigers than say Vlastuin.
We hear Vlastuin is a solid citizen, a leader wins the footy and has very good disposal and decision making skills yet a bit of a question mark over his ability to get the aerobic capacity to go through as a specialist midfielder, sounds very much like Conca in writing are they similar or nothing alike. Vlastuin has the traits the RFC is in need of apart from turn of foot and query over tank.
Macrae became very popular after the finals series and Mayes was always out of reach, Grundy if we could nigh on guarantee grab Tyson next year would be a great result list wise and structure but would he want to go back to SA thus taking a local boy would take out the go home factor.
What are the strengths of Macrae and Mayes?
So many varaibles and connotations spose we can count on this at least we will gain a very good player this year who will join the 22.
We need quality inside midfielders. As much as I like Mayes, he isn't a fit.
Vlastuin is. Stringer is. Grundy is, if he's available as he also fills a list need.
Take out Nathan Foley, Trent Cotchin and Shane Tuck we don't have much else.
In an ideal world, Reece Conca, Brandon Ellis, Brett Deledio, Shaun Grigg and Dustin Martin are our recievers.
We need quality clearance players. We have have a major gap in that area aged between 18-21. It showed through our lack of midfield depth at Coburg.
We have an awesome top 8 or so, but then it drops off. Matt White was in the centre late in the year FFS. We can't have that.
Vlastuin is. Stringer is. Grundy is, if he's available as he also fills a list need.
Take out Nathan Foley, Trent Cotchin and Shane Tuck we don't have much else.
In an ideal world, Reece Conca, Brandon Ellis, Brett Deledio, Shaun Grigg and Dustin Martin are our recievers.
We need quality clearance players. We have have a major gap in that area aged between 18-21. It showed through our lack of midfield depth at Coburg.
We have an awesome top 8 or so, but then it drops off. Matt White was in the centre late in the year FFS. We can't have that.
Whilst that is no doubt true Cotch, we also chronically lack some class in our front half. Which Mayes does possess.
Leysy Days said:
Give me the midfielder any day.
Deledio, Cotchin and Martin can be that class.
If we landed Stringer you can throw him in there too.
I've also seen queries on Vlastuin's apparent lack of endurance. Where have they come from?
The Cotch said:
I haven't seen the combine results but maybe he tested poorly there?
Anyway I agree we need inside midfield depth but that can be found later in the draft (Pongracic, Hrovat, Lonergan etc.). If we have a chance to grab Mayes we should IMO. He reminds me of Ryan Griffin in the early stages of his career. He'll be a midfielder eventually but will start off on a HFF developing as a pinch hitting mid. The kid is all class.
