MRP 2015 | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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MRP 2015

The sling tackle is highlighting some issues that have come to the fore in recent years.

Firstly, umpires consistently fail to give a free kick for incorrect disposal. Richards just let the ball go when Schulz tackled and it fell to the ground. Once upon a time this was a free kick. Actually it still is, just that it is very rarely paid. The one in fifty that is paid occasionally turns a game, but only because it is so rare.

Gibbs pinned Gray’s arms and held the ball in. This used to be a ball-up. When I played footy in olden times, you tackled to get a free for incorrect disposal and you didn’t want a ball up, you wanted the free. So you didn’t try to pin anyone down, you just tackled them and grabbed them around the hips. Tthey were forced to dispose of the ball and you pressured them so they would stuff up the disposal. This action now elicits a weakly-defined play-on call.

Tackling is now about forcing a ball-up. We call it a stoppage and every coach in the competition is wanting to force hundreds of stoppages every game so his chess pieces can set up in their starting points or whatever other nonsense term that they have for it.

There is no point is chasing a free by tackling any more. When you tackle someone, you are more likely to tackle a Selwood-clone high or be dragged forward by a Priddis-clone and give away the free rather than receive one when they throw away the ball like it was yesterday’s lunch leftovers . In any case, if you don’t pin the arms in your tackle, they just stand up, look around for loose team-mates, put the kettle on while they assess options and take the best one. Again, in the olden days, that was holding the ball. Now it is a career-stopper for the tackler, who gets dragged by his coach for not pinning the arms back.

The textbook tackle today is the tackle that pins at least one arm, turns the player over so you don’t fall in his back and drags him down so he can’t rejoin the fray when the umpire inevitably calls “play on, it was knocked free in the tackle”. The effort required to drag the player down almost certainly means the tackler will fall to the ground, so he had better make sure that the guy with the ball stays down too.

Guess what that is? Yep, sling tackle. Concussion here we come.

If they just paid a free for incorrect disposal none of this would happen and we would have a much smaller number of stoppages and fewer concussions.

The game was much more dangerous in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. The concussion injuries were rarely caused by tackles, they were caused by shirtfronts, bumps, shepherds that attacked the would-be tackler, hits behind play, hits in play, misdirected spoils that connected with head and not ball, pre-meditated punches disguised as spoils that hit the head instead of the ball, pre-meditated punches that were…………well, just premediated punches. Never tackles, though, never tackles.

All this other stuff has been outlawed. No-one not named Buddy Franklin gets away with any of those things any more.

Just pay the free kick for holding the ball/incorrect disposal and that will go away too.
 
Tigers of Old said:
I have no doubt brain damage is real. Lets cancel the sport now then shall we rather than death by a thousand cuts?
In a contact sport accidents happen. I seriously doubt Gibbs or Schulz meant to knock people out but unfortunately it happens in football.

These are not accidents, you can tackle an opponent and stop short of sling tackling them to the ground. Of course you don't intend to knock them out but you know the player is defenceless and chances are much higher that the player could be badly injured. It needs to be stamped out and the MRP inconsistency is not helping. Make a stand and watch how quickly that type of tackle will disappear.
 
davidc0055 said:
Disregarding the hits behind play of yesteryear, I reckon AFL is tougher now than any time in the past. Players attack the contest, and the man, with far more speed and power than before, and use their bodies with much greater intensity.

Watch a replay from the 60s and 70s, and count the number of collisions and tackles that the majority of individual players are part of -- you won't need to count very high. Running back with the flight was a rarity, gang-tackles as well. I don't see it becoming a hybrid of soccer and basketball at all, unless they start reducing the number of players on the field.

Agree, AFL has never been tougher. These are elite sportsmen with elite physiques. Injuries will always be more frequent and severe but surely we can stop short of encouraging and rewarding knocks to the head in any form, whether that be a careless bump to the head or a sling tackle.
 
Jason King said:
Whats next? blokes who crash packs or fly for a speccy and knee their opponents in the process should get rubbed out as well? If anything its a more deliberate attempt to injure the opposition player.

Rubbish!
 
Really don't get the Greene decision. Spitting at an opponent compared to spitting on an opponent. Seriously whats the difference. Just cause the guy has crap aim that means its basically ok and he just gets a fine. Its about the worst look any game in the world can have and pretty much every other sport in the world would have seen him sitting out games and I think they should have been tough on it. IMO a fine pretty much says that its ok to spit at someone just as long as you don't hit them. Do they think the same with a punch?

Obviously the buddy one was a joke and made even more so with Maric now sitting out a week. Both careless with medium impact to the head so they are essentially the same, right!!! Buddys should clearly have been intentional and high impact to the head.

I get confused with the impact to the head too. In terms of impact to the head what was really the difference between Cotch's and Ivan's? I can't see a lot yet one is graded as low and the other is medium!!
 
TOT70 said:
The sling tackle is highlighting some issues that have come to the fore in recent years.

Firstly, umpires consistently fail to give a free kick for incorrect disposal. Richards just let the ball go when Schulz tackled and it fell to the ground. Once upon a time this was a free kick. Actually it still is, just that it is very rarely paid. The one in fifty that is paid occasionally turns a game, but only because it is so rare.

Gibbs pinned Gray’s arms and held the ball in. This used to be a ball-up. When I played footy in olden times, you tackled to get a free for incorrect disposal and you didn’t want a ball up, you wanted the free. So you didn’t try to pin anyone down, you just tackled them and grabbed them around the hips. Tthey were forced to dispose of the ball and you pressured them so they would stuff up the disposal. This action now elicits a weakly-defined play-on call.

Tackling is now about forcing a ball-up. We call it a stoppage and every coach in the competition is wanting to force hundreds of stoppages every game so his chess pieces can set up in their starting points or whatever other nonsense term that they have for it.

There is no point is chasing a free by tackling any more. When you tackle someone, you are more likely to tackle a Selwood-clone high or be dragged forward by a Priddis-clone and give away the free rather than receive one when they throw away the ball like it was yesterday’s lunch leftovers . In any case, if you don’t pin the arms in your tackle, they just stand up, look around for loose team-mates, put the kettle on while they assess options and take the best one. Again, in the olden days, that was holding the ball. Now it is a career-stopper for the tackler, who gets dragged by his coach for not pinning the arms back.

The textbook tackle today is the tackle that pins at least one arm, turns the player over so you don’t fall in his back and drags him down so he can’t rejoin the fray when the umpire inevitably calls “play on, it was knocked free in the tackle”. The effort required to drag the player down almost certainly means the tackler will fall to the ground, so he had better make sure that the guy with the ball stays down too.

Guess what that is? Yep, sling tackle. Concussion here we come.

If they just paid a free for incorrect disposal none of this would happen and we would have a much smaller number of stoppages and fewer concussions.

The game was much more dangerous in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. The concussion injuries were rarely caused by tackles, they were caused by shirtfronts, bumps, shepherds that attacked the would-be tackler, hits behind play, hits in play, misdirected spoils that connected with head and not ball, pre-meditated punches disguised as spoils that hit the head instead of the ball, pre-meditated punches that were…………well, just premediated punches. Never tackles, though, never tackles.

All this other stuff has been outlawed. No-one not named Buddy Franklin gets away with any of those things any more.

Just pay the free kick for holding the ball/incorrect disposal and that will go away too.


Brilliantly said TOT
 
TOT70 said:
The sling tackle is highlighting some issues that have come to the fore in recent years.

Firstly, umpires consistently fail to give a free kick for incorrect disposal. Richards just let the ball go when Schulz tackled and it fell to the ground. Once upon a time this was a free kick. Actually it still is, just that it is very rarely paid. The one in fifty that is paid occasionally turns a game, but only because it is so rare.

Gibbs pinned Gray’s arms and held the ball in. This used to be a ball-up. When I played footy in olden times, you tackled to get a free for incorrect disposal and you didn’t want a ball up, you wanted the free. So you didn’t try to pin anyone down, you just tackled them and grabbed them around the hips. Tthey were forced to dispose of the ball and you pressured them so they would stuff up the disposal. This action now elicits a weakly-defined play-on call.

Tackling is now about forcing a ball-up. We call it a stoppage and every coach in the competition is wanting to force hundreds of stoppages every game so his chess pieces can set up in their starting points or whatever other nonsense term that they have for it.

There is no point is chasing a free by tackling any more. When you tackle someone, you are more likely to tackle a Selwood-clone high or be dragged forward by a Priddis-clone and give away the free rather than receive one when they throw away the ball like it was yesterday’s lunch leftovers . In any case, if you don’t pin the arms in your tackle, they just stand up, look around for loose team-mates, put the kettle on while they assess options and take the best one. Again, in the olden days, that was holding the ball. Now it is a career-stopper for the tackler, who gets dragged by his coach for not pinning the arms back.

The textbook tackle today is the tackle that pins at least one arm, turns the player over so you don’t fall in his back and drags him down so he can’t rejoin the fray when the umpire inevitably calls “play on, it was knocked free in the tackle”. The effort required to drag the player down almost certainly means the tackler will fall to the ground, so he had better make sure that the guy with the ball stays down too.

Guess what that is? Yep, sling tackle. Concussion here we come.

If they just paid a free for incorrect disposal none of this would happen and we would have a much smaller number of stoppages and fewer concussions.

The game was much more dangerous in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. The concussion injuries were rarely caused by tackles, they were caused by shirtfronts, bumps, shepherds that attacked the would-be tackler, hits behind play, hits in play, misdirected spoils that connected with head and not ball, pre-meditated punches disguised as spoils that hit the head instead of the ball, pre-meditated punches that were…………well, just premediated punches. Never tackles, though, never tackles.

All this other stuff has been outlawed. No-one not named Buddy Franklin gets away with any of those things any more.

Just pay the free kick for holding the ball/incorrect disposal and that will go away too.

Can someone forward this to the MRP?
 
I wonder whether a tackler is more likely to receive or give away a free kick. It makes more sense for them to receive more free kicks than they give away, but it doesn't appear they do.
 
I like this quote from Dane Swan. Seems a lot of the players think Gibbs was unlucky to get suspended too..

"I have no problem with Schulz getting off. As long as Bryce Gibbs got off, there needs to be some consistency.

"I think Gibbs is very unlucky. How many tackles are there a game, maybe 150? How many times has someone been knocked out from it this year, twice? The math is you would say it doesn't happen a lot.


Kneejerk Bartlettism.
 
Tigers of Old said:
I like this quote from Dane Swan. Seems a lot of the players think Gibbs was unlucky to get suspended too..

"I have no problem with Schulz getting off. As long as Bryce Gibbs got off, there needs to be some consistency.

"I think Gibbs is very unlucky. How many tackles are there a game, maybe 150? How many times has someone been knocked out from it this year, twice? The math is you would say it doesn't happen a lot.


Kneejerk Bartlettism.
Bartlettism, I like it.
 
For those claiming KO's suffered in tackles should be considered a "rub of the green"... Shane Edwards has been on the receiving end of one of these, years ago, knocked out cold on the Etihad concrete by Mooney. Notably copped another heavy knock recently but somehow escaped serious consequences.

Let's say Gibbs, wiser after suspension, executes a Schulz-style "one motion" tackle on Edwards tomorrow night. Edwards is KO'd and taken to hospital for scans; like Michael Mitchell before him, Edwards subsequently announces his retirement based on doctors' advice.

Would we all be happy to defend Gibbs and just "move on"? I'd say we almost asked for it to happen by accepting the Schulz verdict.

The MRP is sending unacceptably mixed messages. Again.
 
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
For those claiming KO's suffered in tackles should be considered a "rub of the green"... Shane Edwards has been on the receiving end of one of these, years ago, knocked out cold on the Etihad concrete by Mooney. Notably copped another heavy knock recently but somehow escaped serious consequences.

Let's say Gibbs, wiser after suspension, executes a Schulz-style "one motion" tackle on Edwards tomorrow night. Edwards is KO'd and taken to hospital for scans; like Michael Mitchell before him, Edwards subsequently announces his retirement based on doctors' advice.

Would we all be happy to defend Gibbs and just "move on"? I'd say we almost asked for it to happen by accepting the Schulz verdict.

The MRP is sending unacceptably mixed messages. Again.

Gotta agree with Gerard on AFL360. They had a useable template. If you pin the arms, you ate going to be in trouble if the player gets slung. The MRP have done an excellent job of muddying the water this year and have done it again.
 
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
For those claiming KO's suffered in tackles should be considered a "rub of the green"... Shane Edwards has been on the receiving end of one of these, years ago, knocked out cold on the Etihad concrete by Mooney. Notably copped another heavy knock recently but somehow escaped serious consequences.

Let's say Gibbs, wiser after suspension, executes a Schulz-style "one motion" tackle on Edwards tomorrow night. Edwards is KO'd and taken to hospital for scans; like Michael Mitchell before him, Edwards subsequently announces his retirement based on doctors' advice.

Would we all be happy to defend Gibbs and just "move on"? I'd say we almost asked for it to happen by accepting the Schulz verdict.

The MRP is sending unacceptably mixed messages. Again.
I remember that incident, L2R2R, although I think it was Milburn, not Mooney, that KO'ed Shane. Both thugs, though, who were allowed to get away with far too much. Milburn was suspended for that, but he appealed and got off! Not long after they started to alter the rules about tackling and damage done and we're where we are now.
 
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
For those claiming KO's suffered in tackles should be considered a "rub of the green"... Shane Edwards has been on the receiving end of one of these, years ago, knocked out cold on the Etihad concrete by Mooney. Notably copped another heavy knock recently but somehow escaped serious consequences.

Let's say Gibbs, wiser after suspension, executes a Schulz-style "one motion" tackle on Edwards tomorrow night. Edwards is KO'd and taken to hospital for scans; like Michael Mitchell before him, Edwards subsequently announces his retirement based on doctors' advice.

I would say that would be an extremely rare & highly unlikely occurrence.
Concussions happen a lot in football, being tackled with pinned arms just one of those instances but players don't try to knock players out cold.
Guy on twitter just made a good point that players are taught to turn players when they tackle because if they don't then it's a push in the back.
So they're taught to pin and turn at training but then when they execute it perfectly they get suspended because the tackled player accidentally hits their head on the turf?
It's madness.
 
Personally I think what Taylor Adams did last night by deliberately & repeatedly dropping his knees into Westoff's head whilst on the ground, is far worse than what Gibbs did. Whilst the injuries sustained were not as bad it was a considerably worse incident.
Very dangerous and and absolute dog act by Adams. I would give the mug 3 weeks for each time he dropped his knee. Deliberate acts off the ball like that are much more serious than those largely accidental in the act of play. This should go straight to the tribunal.
 
KB gold on SEN this morning............saying Adams could have got a free kick for contact below the knees. Like throwing petrol on a fire....
 
Adams and Greene both kind of remind me of the old 80's/90's David Rhys Jones from Sydney and Carltank.

Can play but have that same mongrel grub look about them.

I expect to see these two fronting the Tribunal regularly in the future.