Liam McBean

[Tellitasitis]

can someone explain why fellas who make sweeping, inaccurate, ill-informed statements, often put a full stop followed by 'simple really', or 'blind freddy could see that' or 'full stop' (the ultimate tautology?)
F
Is it to try draw the reader away from the ill-logic? Its a complex one. Not black or white. But sits somewhere on the spectrum of grey. comma

Ah, the body language of forums. Well said, but none of us are immune. Good CHF factoid by the way ET.

Beanie's dropping is not a concern- he's entitled to be 'punished' for poor kicking for goal. As coach I would do the same. He must now go back and kick straight and earn the next opportunity. That is the concern though - in such a toxic environment of self-preservation it will be hard to get one in the short term.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Jacko sez false alarmer.

 

[tigertim]

Jon Brown took 24 quarters to kick his first goal.

he kicked 5 in his first 13 games.

The PRE brains trust wouldnt have stood for Jon Brown :headscratch

cause, yeah, big blokes always dominate and pull down monster pack marks and kick bag in their first few games.

Blind Freddie would have let a few good ones go. Almost all of them as a matter of fact. literally.

Not aimed at anyone, but PRE's critical analysis of footy is at an all time low IMO.

Wow, you know perspective has gone when you're comparing McBean with Jon Brown. Of course there are many examples of players grabbing marks and kicking goals in their first few games. Jesse Hogan for eg. Dermott Brereton...geez, John Georgiadis! yes, critical thinking at PRE is at an all time low.

 

[easy_tiger]

Wow, you know perspective has gone when you're comparing McBean with Jon Brown.

with respect tt, you miss the point entirely. I was pointing out the absurdity of judgement of a tall after 5 games.

I couldve searched for a tall who never made it, who had a great first 5 (stephen jurica, 3M 6D 2G, would be judged better than Buddy and Jon Brown, after 5 games).

 

[tigertim]

with respect tt, you miss the point entirely.

My apologies if I did. I thought you were comparing Jono Browns "development" with Liam Mcbeans in that JB took 24 quarters to kick his first goal. Ie he "slowly" developed, didn't burst onto the scene and grab marks and kick goals.

And that Liam has kicked 1 goal in 17 quarters and is on a similar "development trend/path" to JB.

So the inferred conclusion being that if JB were at RFC some PRE pundits would be treating him like they are Mcbean and say he should be dropped/delisted or whatever they're saying. And that McBean should be given more time.

That's how I took it.

 

[AngryAnt]

Dancing on Beano's grave is way premature, but so is all the absurd angst and calls to burn down Punt Road. Young players get dropped and that's not necessarily bad for their career.

 

[Scoop]

The execution of Beany is extraordinary.

I picked 3 great CHF's and 1 who got lucky in a great side and looked at their 5 game averages. I picked them without knowing their numbers. No selecting stats to prove my point.

Dermie, Jon Brown, Buddy and Mooney

Dermie 4M 12D 2G
JB 2M 5D 0G
Moons 1M 4D 0G
Buddy 3M 10D 1G

theirs 14 flags at CHF between those blokes. probably only Derm would have passed PRE's expectations.

Beanie 2M 5D 0G. SO Bean outstats Jon Brown and Moons (5 flags, CHF's) on the 5 game averages.

Of course, 5 game averages are entirely absurd. Which is my point.

blah blah blah.

Bingo. And compare that to how long we carried Ming VIckery and every third week Griffiths.

Hardwick has killed the boy.

 

[AngryAnt]

.
Hardwick has killed the boy.

A good example of the angst I was talking about.

 

[easy_tiger]

My apologies if I did. I thought you were comparing Jono Browns "development" with Liam Mcbeans in that JB took 24 quarters to kick his first goal. Ie he "slowly" developed, didn't burst onto the scene and grab marks and kick goals.

And that Liam has kicked 1 goal in 17 quarters and is on a similar "development trend/path" to JB.

So the inferred conclusion being that if JB were at RFC some PRE pundits would be treating him like they are Mcbean and say he should be dropped/delisted or whatever they're saying. And that McBean should be given more time.

That's how I took it.

Nah, pointing out that comparisons/judgments are invalid.

YOU CANT JUDGE A TALL ON 5 GAMES. Simple. Full stop. Blind Freddie can see that. Demented Jean remembers that.

im not saying Beanie IS going to make it. Im just saying noone is qualified to declare he ISNT yet either. Not even PRE blokes.

Hardwick has killed the boy.

Ants right scoop, under my logic, its too early to declare him killed.

After 200 games, we could be talking about Dimma using hawks-ike patience in developing him. I doubt it, but we could.

 

[tigertim]

IMO he should've have been given greater opportunity over the last few seasons but unfortunately he wasn't.

He got given 5 games and showed little. Dropped. And seeing Dimma doesn't seem to be going anywhere else it appears Liam will be.

So the silver lining is that when he gets his opportunity at another club he,ll put eggs on some faces.

 

[easy_tiger]

IMO he should've have been given greater opportunity over the last few seasons but unfortunately he wasn't.

He got given 5 games and showed little. Dropped. And seeing Dimma doesn't seem to be going anywhere else it appears Liam will be.

So the silver lining is that when he gets his opportunity at another club he,ll put eggs on some faces.

I dont mind the slow development (i.e. the 2nds) of young talls.

The outcry/angst has come from the quality of talls playing in the ones. Its unfortunate.

I dont remember much of an outcry when brian taylor and mark jackson where playing twos when Roachy and Clokey where in the ones. There was some Taylor angst, but i thin it was mostly his own????

anyway, this thread provided some light relief for a few hundred pages. It was fun. Now its pretty angst ridden. we live in troubled times.

 

[Brodders17]

The execution of Beany is extraordinary.

I picked 3 great CHF's and 1 who got lucky in a great side and looked at their 5 game averages. I picked them without knowing their numbers. No selecting stats to prove my point.

Dermie, Jon Brown, Buddy and Mooney

Dermie 4M 12D 2G
JB 2M 5D 0G
Moons 1M 4D 0G
Buddy 3M 10D 1G

theirs 14 flags at CHF between those blokes. probably only Derm would have passed PRE's expectations.

Beanie 2M 5D 0G. SO Bean outstats Jon Brown and Moons (5 flags, CHF's) on the 5 game averages.

Of course, 5 game averages are entirely absurd. Which is my point.

blah blah blah.

Out of interest who out of those guys were 18 at the time and who was 22?

Also do you have stats comparing them after 4 years on an AFL list? Just out of interest.

 

[Dev Tiger]

I think the reality is that other than Jack, Rance and Grimes (Third Tall) all the other talls we have haven't been able to produce consistent AFL quality performances. It is in part why so many teams have moved past us this year. We should be all in on Hurley.

 

[easy_tiger]

Out of interest who out of those guys were 18 at the time and who was 22?

Also do you have stats comparing them after 4 years on an AFL list? Just out of interest.

dont have those numbers Brodds. They are not entirely irrelevant to the point im making, but pretty irrelevant.

I imagine, given how hawks have always slow-baked their talls, that Derm would have done some time in the twos?

JB was certainly a teen, as was Buddy.

edit: Dermie was just gone 18!!!! point taken, to a point. The thing is, I could find a cohort who debut'd (how the hell do you write debut in past tense, debutted?) at 20, had a crap first 5, and came on. Just as I could find blokes who debutted at 20, had a ripper first 5 and never made it. Torture yoiur data with stats and they will confess. I picked a gun cohort out of my head to try demonstrate the point that, as Ive said, you just cant judge a tall after 5 games. With the possible exception of Richard Lounder.


all this has been done several times. Its a waste of time for all of us. Beany may come on. He may not. Some will be definate one way. Some the other. a few will sit in the grey zone. and so it goes.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The thing with the Bean is his best footy will be from 26-30. Probably in the ruck, Cox-style. He's 22 soon. So do you keep him for four years?

I've always been a fan. But VFL footy is very different to AFL. The reason the coaches are on him to work up the ground is because forwards have to in the big league.

Everyone has to be able to run, even a 'deep forward' has to spend half his time the wrong side of centre half forward. That's the way the game is. I had hoped reduced rotations might herald a return to positional football, but flood-kick-chase is still the dominant method.

I don't know where that leaves Beanie.

Much as I would like to have seen Liam get another opportunity in dead rubbers ahead of Ty who's in the exit lounge, this is a fair post Spook.
Whilst Liam has some good footy nous, what the coaches no doubt would have been looking for is how he competes physically at the level.
To be fair he's been underwhelming in that regard as he has also been at VFL level so it's not really a surprise. Is that likely to improve over the next few matches?....
I'm disappointed that he hasn't been given more of a go but I'm not convinced at this stage of his development that it'll matter much either.
As I have said countless times, not too many 202cm players succeed as small mid sized forwards.
Will he stay on the list at year's end? Looking increasingly unlikely.

He's also a bit of a victim of Griff going out of the side. He's just not physically ready to compete in the ruck or as a KPP. That really limits him as a player.

 

[tigerlove]

I dont remember much of an outcry when brian taylor and mark jackson where playing twos when Roachy and Clokey where in the ones. There was some Taylor angst, but i thin it was mostly his own????

I don't remember much in life at all going that far back.

 

[tigerlove]

He's also a bit of a victim of Griff going out of the side. He's just not physically ready to compete in the ruck or as a KPP. That really limits him as a player.

Will be interesting to see how much Vickery actually does ruck. I reckon Grigg might get more ruck taps.

 

[easy_tiger]

I don't remember much in life at all going that far back.

I can remember the first part of an Angels' concert at the Ballarat Civic Hall.

 

[Tiger Ghost]

I'm not convinced Liam will make it, but one thing i expect is him to walk come years end. Now if that happens and Vickery walks to via FA our forward stocks are in a world of hurt.
We'll likely lose 3 maybe even 4 talls with Maric and Elton surely on the way out.

 

[thejinx]

I think everyone can agree, Liam's VFL performances have deserved more than 5 AFL games.

Whether or not we think he'll make it, he should have played more AFL games by now.

And to give him a 3 game spell to determine whether or not he stays at the club- after years of consistently performing in the VFL, is unfair.