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Liam McBean
- Thread starter puregreen
- Start date
Rancey18 said:
Not that relevant imo. Liam's fate is largely up to Liam himslef. Fact is when spots are up for grabs this year Liam doesn't appear to be standing up and saying "select me". Regardless of who else is selected or not he could be showing better form. "Earn it" isn't rubbish at all. Coaches reviews have shown a constant theme of things to work on. Kicking goals in VFL isn't necessarily enough to force your way into an AFL side. When he got that chance in that side he didn't do a lot. I reckon excuses and blaming others for his situation is a cop out. Liam could be dominating every week if he's so far above VFL level...but apparently he's not. Do it Liam.
Sorry Rosy, but I don't think it's possible to disagree more. The point is very relevant. What it highlights is the inequities of the selection process in the senior team.
Chaplin was a good defender. He may also still be a good leader. He has never been a good forward.
The main job (not only job) but main job of a key forward is to take marks and kick goals. When you can't do the former, spoil the contest to give your smalls a chance.
Chaplin has never shown any real skill in doing the above, whereas up until this season, McBean has done so. More frequently than not, as is shown by his position amongst the league leading goal kickers at VFL level. We're putting someone who has little skill and little future in front of someone who has demonstrated performance and has a potential future with the club. If I were a forward and saw the selection policy, I'd be wondering what more I had to do, when those in front of me weren't doing things which were considered the benchmarks for success for that position.
So far we've had Ivan\Hampson played ahead of him and Chaplin played ahead of him. None of those have performed as forwards in any level this year.
So McBean needs to improve and "earn it", however players who are more favoured by Dimma don't have the same expectations. It's just rubbish and would ruin the confidence of many players. Telling McBean to suck it up and just "do it" is not the answer. His performance this year has gone downwards, when it had been tracking up. I wonder how much of that has got to do with the poor development by the senior coach?
Chaplin was a good defender. He may also still be a good leader. He has never been a good forward.
The main job (not only job) but main job of a key forward is to take marks and kick goals. When you can't do the former, spoil the contest to give your smalls a chance.
Chaplin has never shown any real skill in doing the above, whereas up until this season, McBean has done so. More frequently than not, as is shown by his position amongst the league leading goal kickers at VFL level. We're putting someone who has little skill and little future in front of someone who has demonstrated performance and has a potential future with the club. If I were a forward and saw the selection policy, I'd be wondering what more I had to do, when those in front of me weren't doing things which were considered the benchmarks for success for that position.
So far we've had Ivan\Hampson played ahead of him and Chaplin played ahead of him. None of those have performed as forwards in any level this year.
So McBean needs to improve and "earn it", however players who are more favoured by Dimma don't have the same expectations. It's just rubbish and would ruin the confidence of many players. Telling McBean to suck it up and just "do it" is not the answer. His performance this year has gone downwards, when it had been tracking up. I wonder how much of that has got to do with the poor development by the senior coach?
rosy23 said:
Seriously Rosy, that is quite absurd.
The one thing that everyone on this forum agree's on, is that our VFL sides are/have been rubbish. Anyone who expects
a player, particularly a tall forward to be performing every week, in a team like that, is unrealistic or deluded. As for when
he got a chance, he had 6 out of a possible 8 quarters. So much for the opportunity. 3 of those quarters was
on Mr Gadget (Fletcher), a modern great of the game, who has played on and regularly beat some of the great forwards in
the last 25 years.
What contributors to this forum should consider, particularly those that have written him off, is what was a realistic return for
a kid 200+cm tall, playing forward with Jack, and at the time, a team that was not playing that well. Would you all rather a
Dean Polo or Stephen Jurica? Both played a blinder first up, then for the remainder of their AFL careers, fail to live up to us
supporters expectations, as they are never able to come close to it, let alone repeat it. We all know what happened to them.
Or do we want is someone to grow into the team and become a regular and consistent contributor?
As has been mentioned, he has consistently out performed others in the VFL, yet his reward has been 6 out 8 quarters. Would
any of us, continue to put in at our workplace, if we are constantly overlooked for recognition and/or promotion and these opportunities
given to less performed people? Or do we start to look for other opportunities?
Bean how could anyone want this guy to play . List clogger please don't offer him another contact if he is as good as peeps say trade for a pick who knows Leppa mite want him for a high second round pick I think not so try not to spam PRE with this gab age
The simple reason Chaplin plays ahead of McBean is because rightly or wrongly they don't think Liam's strong enough to play as a key forward and crash packs.
Is Chappy more impactful at the contest? IMO no but I can see the dilemma give the type of player McBean is.
Basically after 5 years in the system he still has minimal presence as a KEY forward at VFL level. That is a very real problem for him based on my obs at VFL level.
He's still hoping to make it as a 202cm third tall/small forward.
Maybe he will but as I have said right from the outset, this would make him a statistical anomaly. A freak.
Reality check. He's not a freak.
I'd like him to get another senior opportunity, if for nothing else but for some to simply accept him for what he is. I hope he does and I hope he takes the chance with both hands but my sense is that ship has sailed at Richmond.
Is Chappy more impactful at the contest? IMO no but I can see the dilemma give the type of player McBean is.
Basically after 5 years in the system he still has minimal presence as a KEY forward at VFL level. That is a very real problem for him based on my obs at VFL level.
He's still hoping to make it as a 202cm third tall/small forward.
Maybe he will but as I have said right from the outset, this would make him a statistical anomaly. A freak.
Reality check. He's not a freak.
I'd like him to get another senior opportunity, if for nothing else but for some to simply accept him for what he is. I hope he does and I hope he takes the chance with both hands but my sense is that ship has sailed at Richmond.
It's was reported on SEN pre-season review and a few times since that the biggest knock on McBean is that he doesn't work hard enough.
This kid should be keen as mustard and doing everything he possibly can to improve his game and force his way into the side before it's too late. Sounds like it's all a bit hard for him.
McBean obviously has talent but without the work ethic to match he is just another list clogger that needs to be moved on.
This kid should be keen as mustard and doing everything he possibly can to improve his game and force his way into the side before it's too late. Sounds like it's all a bit hard for him.
McBean obviously has talent but without the work ethic to match he is just another list clogger that needs to be moved on.
Tigers of Old said:
Not sure how the myth that the beanster plays as a 200cm small forward continues to get oxygen. Yeah he's great below his knees, and has more ways to kick goals than the ol' lead and mark.
But he still does lead and mark. And he takes plenty of contested marks too. More so than other more favoured players on our list.
So he's had an inconsistent first few rounds in the VFL. With the exception of Jack, you could say the same for pretty much every forward and/or tall on our list this season, at any level.
Of course he's still got a lot to prove, but other players have done less so far this year and have been given games in the seniors. But that's all been discussed ad nauseum, nothing new to add there.
Guess I'm just tired of people holding the beanster to a higher standard than some others. Especially when it's simply not possible for him to turn in five straight weeks of 20 possession, 10 contested mark, 5 goal performances with the rubbish delivery our entire forward line receives from our midfield of hacks and suburban footballers.
(And for those who think I'm exaggerating, I ask you - what exactly does the beanster need to do and over what period of time to warrant a call up?)
Seriously, enough with the bean bagging already. He's a talented kid, the season is gone anyway, and we should probably do our due diligence to find out whether he's worth keeping around.
Chaplin, Morris, Hampson, Griffiths - I'd be more interested in learning whether the beanster can mix it in the seniors on the end of some AFL quality delivery, than watch these guys spud it up again, and again and again...
Surely the example at the moment is Ben Brown. A gangly non-natural key forward. Browns advantage is size, or at least the appearance of it. From the start he looked like he would be able to crash packs, though didn't and mostly played as freaky third tall. I have seen exactly 19mins of McJeebus in the flesh but that didn't tell me much. Iv re seen more imposing blokes playing in the VAFA.
Indeed it has. I don't know if L2T can do it but I wonder how many players have been on a list for 4 years for 2 senior games and gone on to be "successful" ( I dunno, say 50 games?)Tigers of Old said:
Trouble is we have 2 of em! Liam & Toddy E. 4 games in 9 seasons between them.
BiddiscombeSkills said:
Good posting.
Beanie is probably suffering from not following the game plan (and good on him if that's the case) of leading into the pockets to create a stoppage. The richmond way that has infested into the reserves. He's probably ignoring orders and leading into open space down the middle and the ball is delivered nowhere near him.
Baloo said:
On one hand I thought it odd for one to have such apparent glee in a player not getting/taking an opportunity but it seems the default position for you (and many) to defend all the club does.
Not sure if it's trolling, or you actually have genuine faith in Hardwick and his decisions.
Because people watch games and take note of the way he plays and how he kicks his goals.BiddiscombeSkills said:
You may well have a different opinion of him and that's fine.
Have seen him play enough games now to have mine.
These are genuine weaknesses in his game for a such a tall player.
BTW it's a bit of a myth that he's so great below his knees too..
BiddiscombeSkills said:
On that we can agree on. He deserves a chance to ply his wares. Lets see what he's got.
dusty delivers said:
Yep, this is one of the few downsides of PRE I'm afraid. Best to ignore DD.
Tigers of Old said:
I've watched plenty of his games too, and have taken note of the way he plays and how he kicks his goals too. Of course he has weaknesses in his game - very few players don't.
But the commonly peddled misconception that most of his goals are somehow cheapies is a total furphy. And for such a tall player, he really is great below his knees.
Maybe we've been at different games.
Anyway, like you say, we agree on the bit that's important right now - he could easily be given an opportunity at the expense of serial underperformers, with pretty much zero risk. And whether the upside is there or not, at least we won't die wondering.
