Global Warming

[tigersnake]

Better compare the runtime and output before you get too excited

How would you know it must a nice place to reside? Personal experience?

Well seeing they have a few years head start it’s no wonder.
And funnily enough Borumba costs are expected to double from the initial build costs.
And the new ones have only “desktop exercises with very little site visits” hahaha.



As I said, they’ve had a few years head start and only costed it at half the actual build cost.
Hmmm, Queensland government pushing to have these built. Throwing people of their land. Flooding massive areas of land.


What are the main works of the Borumba project?

Main works for the project will include construction of a new lower Borumba dam, the upper reservoir dams, tunnels and underground powerhouse, and associated construction facilities such as access roads and surface works including switch yard, quarries, and construction camps.

There goes people’s livelihoods, their homes, their businesses.

You're getting your wires crossed.

2 Projects, Borumba (near Gympie/ Noosa) and Burdekin (near Mackay).

Borumba is on state-owned land, mix of national park, state forest and old farmland the state purchased in the 80s in case this project happened. No homes being lost, no businesses.

Its the smaller of the 2, 2000mw, or approx 2 million homes. Thats a lot, and a good reason to hate it because the problems of renewables go away. Once its built, set and forget, it will tick away for at least 100 years, a few grease and oil changes, a coat of paint on the smoko shed and site office, thats it. No waste, no emissions, no lithium etc etc. Located near the Bris/ Sunshine Coast metro area.

Burdekin is bigger, double the output but the same budget. This is on a farmland which the government has been resuming.

1) Borumba state land, more advanced, bipartisan support.
2) Burdekin freehold land, still on the drawing board, LNP are against it.

Both of these projects are very different to Snowy, it requires a 23km long tunnel (what was Turnbull thinking?). Borumba requires a 1km long tunnel, Burdekin requires a 4km long tunnel.

 

[DavidSSS]

You're getting your wires crossed.

2 Projects, Borumba (near Gympie/ Noosa) and Burdekin (near Mackay).

Borumba is on state-owned land, mix of national park, state forest and old farmland the state purchased in the 80s in case this project happened. No homes being lost, no businesses.

Its the smaller of the 2, 2000mw, or approx 2 million homes. Thats a lot, and a good reason to hate it because the problems of renewables go away. Once its built, set and forget, it will tick away for at least 100 years, a few grease and oil changes, a coat of paint on the smoko shed and site office, thats it. No waste, no emissions, no lithium etc etc. Located near the Bris/ Sunshine Coast metro area.

Burdekin is bigger, double the output but the same budget. This is on a farmland which the government has been resuming.

1) Borumba state land, more advanced, bipartisan support.
2) Burdekin freehold land, still on the drawing board, LNP are against it.

Both of these projects are very different to Snowy, it requires a 23km long tunnel (what was Turnbull thinking?). Borumba requires a 1km long tunnel, Burdekin requires a 4km long tunnel.

Don't confuse him with facts, it troubles him.

DS

 

[Willo]

I was thinking we could use the nuclear subs to transport the charge batteries.

Nah Albo’s nuclear subs wont make it inland.

Or possibly just use the same technology here if it was successful.

So we’ll build a rail line to cart batteries
Maybe they use the little sugar cane railcarts, except they won’t make it up the Eungella and Mackay highlands.

 

[Willo]

You're getting your wires crossed.

2 Projects, Borumba (near Gympie/ Noosa) and Burdekin (near Mackay).

Borumba is on state-owned land, mix of national park, state forest and old farmland the state purchased in the 80s in case this project happened. No homes being lost, no businesses.

Its the smaller of the 2, 2000mw, or approx 2 million homes. Thats a lot, and a good reason to hate it because the problems of renewables go away. Once its built, set and forget, it will tick away for at least 100 years, a few grease and oil changes, a coat of paint on the smoko shed and site office, thats it. No waste, no emissions, no lithium etc etc. Located near the Bris/ Sunshine Coast metro area.

Burdekin is bigger, double the output but the same budget. This is on a farmland which the government has been resuming.

1) Borumba state land, more advanced, bipartisan support.
2) Burdekin freehold land, still on the drawing board, LNP are against it.

Both of these projects are very different to Snowy, it requires a 23km long tunnel (what was Turnbull thinking?). Borumba requires a 1km long tunnel, Burdekin requires a 4km long tunnel.

A tunnel eh. What about the rest of the infrastructure.
I ‘now they’re different than the Snowy.

Don't confuse him with facts, it troubles him.

DS

yeah well I notice you couldn’t reply.

 

[Willo]

You're getting your wires crossed.

Which wires have I got crossed? Burdekin and Borumba. That’s ok. Obviously you knew which I referred to

2 Projects, Borumba (near Gympie/ Noosa) and Burdekin (near Mackay).

Thats what I said and posted links to

Borumba is on state-owned land, mix of national park, state forest and old farmland the state purchased in the 80s in case this project happened. No homes being lost, no businesses.

Yes I did get them mixed up.
I meant Burdekin. But the point still I was making still remains .Burdekin isn’t state land and there are peoples homes, businesses etc affected.

Home, property owners 'shell shocked' by Queensland Hydro plan to flood their land

"Bloody ludicrous, gutless, and rude" is how residents are describing plans to develop the world's biggest pumped hydro project in the Land of Clouds.

www.abc.net.au

It’s the smaller of the 2, 2000mw, or approx 2 million homes. Thats a lot, and a good reason to hate it because the problems of renewables go away.

Silly statement

Once it’s built, set and forget, it will tick away for at least 100 years, a few grease and oil changes, a coat of paint on the smoko shed and site office, thats it. No waste, no emissions, no lithium etc etc. Located near the Bris/ Sunshine Coast metro area.

Oh they don’t have turbines, electrical switchgear, large scale pumps. Just a shed and an office. No moving parts or machinery. Nothing that will need replacing when worn out or anything like that. Why didn’t they even use this across the world instead of other power plants? Just build a dam and energy flows. Ok then. I wonder what powers this magical system. Obviously it does it all itself. Simple marvellous.

Burdekin is bigger, double the output but the same budget. This is on a farmland which the government has been resuming.

And affects private landowners, businesses, home s etc. see the link I provided

Home, property owners 'shell shocked' by Queensland Hydro plan to flood their land

"Bloody ludicrous, gutless, and rude" is how residents are describing plans to develop the world's biggest pumped hydro project in the Land of Clouds.

www.abc.net.au

1) Borumba state land, more advanced, bipartisan support.
2) Burdekin freehold land, still on the drawing board, LNP are against it.

Both of these projects are very different to Snowy, it requires a 23km long tunnel (what was Turnbull thinking?)

Obviously you can’t pump over the mountains. Yeah Turnbull and Pumped Hydro eh?

. Borumba requires a 1km long tunnel, Burdekin requires a 4km long tunnel.

Who compared it to the Snowy. As I said earlier. Each location is different. No “one size fits all” in regard to equipment, casts etc.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how long a tunnel it is, if it works.
But anyway Snowy 2.0 Hydro cast approx $12 billion. Might even get to $13 billion. Still cheaper than Borumba at $14 billion.
But funnily enough Turnbull’s pumped hydro = no good
Queensland Labor pumped hydro = good at any price
It sounds like it’s political global warming. Labor renewables = good at any price. Anyone else’s renewables = no good even using the same technology.

But all that aside. No one has mentioned how the solar or wind farms will work to power this hydro during the wet season.
The only suggestion is to rail batteries up. And yeah that’ll work, said no one.

 

[tigersnake]

Which wires have I got crossed? Burdekin and Borumba. That’s ok. Obviously you knew which I referred to

Thats what I said and posted links to

Yes I did get them mixed up.
I meant Burdekin. But the point still I was making still remains .Burdekin isn’t state land and there are peoples homes, businesses etc affected.

Home, property owners 'shell shocked' by Queensland Hydro plan to flood their land

"Bloody ludicrous, gutless, and rude" is how residents are describing plans to develop the world's biggest pumped hydro project in the Land of Clouds.

www.abc.net.au

Silly statement

Oh they don’t have turbines, electrical switchgear, large scale pumps. Just a shed and an office. No moving parts or machinery. Nothing that will need replacing when worn out or anything like that. Why didn’t they even use this across the world instead of other power plants? Just build a dam and energy flows. Ok then. I wonder what powers this magical system. Obviously it does it all itself. Simple marvellous.

And affects private landowners, businesses, home s etc. see the link I provided

Home, property owners 'shell shocked' by Queensland Hydro plan to flood their land

"Bloody ludicrous, gutless, and rude" is how residents are describing plans to develop the world's biggest pumped hydro project in the Land of Clouds.

www.abc.net.au

Obviously you can’t pump over the mountains. Yeah Turnbull and Pumped Hydro eh?

Who compared it to the Snowy. As I said earlier. Each location is different. No “one size fits all” in regard to equipment, casts etc.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how long a tunnel it is, if it works.
But anyway Snowy 2.0 Hydro cast approx $12 billion. Might even get to $13 billion. Still cheaper than Borumba at $14 billion.
But funnily enough Turnbull’s pumped hydro = no good
Queensland Labor pumped hydro = good at any price
It sounds like it’s political global warming. Labor renewables = good at any price. Anyone else’s renewables = no good even using the same technology.

But all that aside. No one has mentioned how the solar or wind farms will work to power this hydro during the wet season.
The only suggestion is to rail batteries up. And yeah that’ll work, said no one.

Wow. I struck a nerve there.

Like all major tech shifts, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. You against breaking any eggs, I respect that. Doesn't really square with the history of western civilisation, but I respect it. But it means we can't ever build anything big.

And yes, hydro tech once set up is as basic as it gets, it like a big crystal radio set, or a HK Holden in relative terms.

Wet season? Seriously, you have no idea mate. If you're genuinely interested, read up

And no it's not political, it's technical. Snowy bad, borumba good, for very clear reasons that have been analyses to death, terrain, budget, power gen. Any way you slice it.

Of course it matters how long the tunnel is, really? You need me to explain that 1km is better than 23?

 

[Willo]

Wow. I struck a nerve there.

Dunno about that

Like all major tech shifts, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. You against breaking any eggs, I respect that.

What the hell are you talking about???

Doesn't really square with the history of western civilisation, but I respect it. But it means we can't ever build anything big.

And yes, hydro tech once set up is as basic as it gets, it like a big crystal radio set, or a HK Holden in relative terms.

So it doesn’t have any moving parts or equipment. Hahaha

Wet season? Seriously, you have no idea mate. If you're genuinely interested, read up

Well if you knew anything about the Eungella and Mackay Highlands you’d be across it. Maybe you might need to.

The wet season in Eungella begins around November and ends around May. Over the course of the wet season, Eungella receives around 1471.6mm of rain. By comparison, in the dry season from June to October, less than 247.4mm of rain falls in total


Well there you go. Only near a meter and a half of rainfall.

And no it's not political, it's technical. Snowy bad, borumba good, for very clear reasons that have been analyses to death, terrain, budget, power gen. Any way you slice it.

Yeah I’m glad you pick one out to compare it to. Try these.
Burdekin $12 billion reports up to $18 billion for 2GW
Snowy 2.0. $12 billion for 2.2 GW
Borumba $14.2 billion for 2 GW
So Snowy bad because of the terrain. Same technology but still bad. So when the train is different or bad, especially for digging what then?
Use a different technology perhaps? What else is left. No coal, no gas. What will deliver 2.2 GW of energy?

You’ve made a good case for nuclear.

 

[tigersnake]

Dunno about that

What the hell are you talking about???

So it doesn’t have any moving parts or equipment. Hahaha

Well if you knew anything about the Eungella and Mackay Highlands you’d be across it. Maybe you might need to.

The wet season in Eungella begins around November and ends around May. Over the course of the wet season, Eungella receives around 1471.6mm of rain. By comparison, in the dry season from June to October, less than 247.4mm of rain falls in total


Well there you go. Only near a meter and a half of rainfall.

Yeah I’m glad you pick one out to compare it to. Try these.
Burdekin $12 billion reports up to $18 billion for 2GW
Snowy 2.0. $12 billion for 2.2 GW
Borumba $14.2 billion for 2 GW
So Snowy bad because of the terrain. Same technology but still bad. So when the train is different or bad, especially for digging what then?
Use a different technology perhaps? What else is left. No coal, no gas. What will deliver 2.2 GW of energy?

You’ve made a good case for nuclear.

Seriously? This is whacky. Plenty of sun in the wet season. And solar farms won't be on the coast. I'd check those snowy figures again. It's a pup. A political decision. Borumba was identified as a potential goer when pumped hydro was not in the frame at all, completely out of fashion.

And what part of hydro tech is extremely basic tech don't you understand? You can ha ha all you want, but that is the reality.

Are you being genuine when you say you don't get the omelette metaphor? You're against any environmental impacts only from any tech you don't like it seems. ok

 

[DavidSSS]

yeah well I notice you couldn’t reply.

More like couldn't be bothered replying to your diatribe. Do you have a life or do you spend all of your time going through peoples' posts line by line . . . don't answer that, I reckon I already know.

Yeah I’m glad you pick one out to compare it to. Try these.
Burdekin $12 billion reports up to $18 billion for 2GW
Snowy 2.0. $12 billion for 2.2 GW
Borumba $14.2 billion for 2 GW
So Snowy bad because of the terrain. Same technology but still bad. So when the train is different or bad, especially for digging what then?
Use a different technology perhaps? What else is left. No coal, no gas. What will deliver 2.2 GW of energy?

You’ve made a good case for nuclear.

Yeah try this:

Hinkley Point C: ₤46 billion - $AU87.5billion
Vogtle: $US34 billion - $AU50billion

DS

 

[Willo]

More like couldn't be bothered replying to your diatribe.

Yeah

Do you have a life or do you spend all of your time going through peoples' posts line by line . . .

Why ask a question if you don’t want an answer? Yet you seem fit to read others posts and answer them. What a hypocrite hahaha

don't answer that, I reckon I already know.

Well don’t ask the question in the first place. Do you have a life asking questions you already know the answers to and don’t actually want an answer.

Yeah try this:

Hinkley Point C: ₤46 billion - $AU87.5billion
Vogtle: $US34 billion - $AU50billion

Luckily they aren’t what’s proposed in Australia. But you already knew that.

Check your own life when you check answers to other people’s quotes and want to buy in.

DS

 

[Willo]

Seriously? This is whacky. Plenty of sun in the wet season.

Plenty of rain and overcast conditions

And solar farms won't be on the coast.

Oh, well where will the renewables be for the grid to feed the pumped hydro? You know to pump all that water back up to the higher storage dam?

I'd check those snowy figures again. It's a pup.

Already checked. Maybe take your advice

A political decision. Borumba was identified as a potential goer when pumped hydro was not in the frame at all, completely out of fashion.

And what part of hydro tech is extremely basic tech don't you understand? You can ha ha all you want, but that is the reality.

Hahaha was for your description on how it works. No equipment or moving parts, really?

Are you being genuine when you say you don't get the omelette metaphor? You're against any environmental impacts only from any tech you don't like it seems. ok

Now you’re just making assumptions.
Invironmenta impacts that affect actual people homes, families and businesses. No concern of yours? Ok.

 

[tigersnake]

Plenty of rain and overcast conditions

Oh, well where will the renewables be for the grid to feed the pumped hydro? You know to pump all that water back up to the higher storage dam?

Already checked. Maybe take your advice

Hahaha was for your description on how it works. No equipment or moving parts, really?

Now you’re just making assumptions.
Invironmenta impacts that affect actual people homes, families and businesses. No concern of yours? Ok.

You are seriously suggesting there is no sun?
You are seriously suggesting there'll be no renewable energy to power the pumped hydro?
You are seriously suggesting that hydro tech is complex? Have you been to Tassie?
You are seriously saying the impacts of building hydro developments near existing dams, in rural areas, with small footprints, are deal breakers? You are allowed to say that and think that, but you can't have it both ways, you are aware nuclear energy has environmental impacts?

Seriously this is mostly trolling.

 

[Willo]

You are seriously suggesting there is no sun?

Where did I suggest that? I said it would be impacted during the wet season

You are seriously suggesting there'll be no renewable energy to power the pumped hydro?

Where did I say that? Apart from when it’s affected by the wet season. Over 1500mmm of rain will give you some idea of weather conditions during the wet season. Work it out for yourself. You don’t need to be Einstein.

You are seriously suggesting that hydro tech is complex?

Where did I ever say that? I said it has moving parts. You compared it to a crystal radio.

Have you been to Tassie?

No, but I’m going in a couple of months. So if you’ve ever been to Tassie you’re a what? Apart from a tourist, a pumped hydro expert?

You are seriously saying the impacts of building hydro developments near existing dams, in rural areas, with small footprints, are deal breakers?

Where did I ever say that? Geez you make a lot of *smile* up

You are allowed to say that and think that, but you can't have it both ways,

I said the impact on people, homes and businesses as per the link I provided

you are aware nuclear energy has environmental impacts?

Yes, but if they’re built on replacing existing infrastructure, less than building a complete new hydro and dispossessing people of their homes, lifestyles,livelihoods and businesses.

Seriously this is mostly trolling.

You haven’t much of a clue have you. Calling this trolling? You are joking.

The original posts were about pumped hydro be lithium. Costs of pumped hydro. Nothing to do with nuclear. You’ve missed the whole point. Jumping in halfway like you usually do. Maybe read the original post (that DavidSSSS) posted. Then you’ll find out what the topic was before you start bleating about trolling.

 

[tigersnake]

Where did I suggest that? I said it would be impacted during the wet season

Where did I say that? Apart from when it’s affected by the wet season. Over 1500mmm of rain will give you some idea of weather conditions during the wet season. Work it out for yourself. You don’t need to be Einstein.

Where did I ever say that? I said it has moving parts. You compared it to a crystal radio.

No, but I’m going in a couple of months. So if you’ve ever been to Tassie you’re a what? Apart from a tourist, a pumped hydro expert?

Where did I ever say that? Geez you make a lot of *smile* up

I said the impact on people, homes and businesses as per the link I provided

Yes, but if they’re built on replacing existing infrastructure, less than building a complete new hydro and dispossessing people of their homes, lifestyles,livelihoods and businesses.


You haven’t much of a clue have you. Calling this trolling? You are joking.

The original posts were about pumped hydro be lithium. Costs of pumped hydro. Nothing to do with nuclear. You’ve missed the whole point. Jumping in halfway like you usually do. Maybe read the original post (that DavidSSSS) posted. Then you’ll find out what the topic was before you start bleating about trolling.

This is ridiculous. Good on ya.

 

[IanG]

Seriously this is mostly trolling.

Thats been obvious for a while now. Dunno why he feels the need to act as a troll though.

 

[Willo]

This is ridiculous. Good on ya.

Yeah, I know. Funny how people make assumptions all the time.
Thanks, same to you.

 

[DavidSSS]

Yeah

Why ask a question if you don’t want an answer? Yet you seem fit to read others posts and answer them. What a hypocrite hahaha

Well don’t ask the question in the first place. Do you have a life asking questions you already know the answers to and don’t actually want an answer.

Luckily they aren’t what’s proposed in Australia. But you already knew that.

Check your own life when you check answers to other people’s quotes and want to buy in.

Gee touched a nerve there.

What is being proposed in Australia is big nukes, just like Hinkley and Vogtle. It is all a distraction but if they actually did try to do this we would end up with massive cost blowouts, massive delays and heaps of toxic radioactive waste - just like all the other nukes.

DS

 

[Willo]

Gee touched a nerve there.

What is being proposed in Australia is big nukes, just like Hinkley and Vogtle. It is all a distraction but if they actually did try to do this we would end up with massive cost blowouts, massive delays and heaps of toxic radioactive waste - just like all the other nukes.

DS

Don’t forget it’s all for Duttons mates in the fossil fuel industry.
Not to forget Albo’s nuclear subs that he signed off on. Cost blowouts, massive delays and heaps of radioactive waste? But that’s ok talk about a bunch of hypocrites. Hardly a word said about that. Donkeys.

 

[mrposhman]

Luckily they aren’t what’s proposed in Australia. But you already knew that.

But isn't that part of the problem, we don't know whats being proposed in Australia because Dutton won't tell us, won't tell us his proposed costings, won't tell us anything other than the sites, which would indicate that he is talking large nuclear but won't confirm the types etc, so they can be compared with proposed and in progress builds being done overseas?

 

[Brodders17]

Don’t forget it’s all for Duttons mates in the fossil fuel industry.
Not to forget Albo’s nuclear subs that he signed off on. Cost blowouts, massive delays and heaps of radioactive waste? But that’s ok talk about a bunch of hypocrites. Hardly a word said about that. Donkeys.

I seriously don't understand how you think nuclear subs have anything to do with how we power homes and businesses in this country.
Would you be saying we should use diesel Australia-wide if we continue with diesel powered subs?

Also, typical Morrison trying to get credit for Albanese's work by announcing the sub deal in 2021 when he was still PM.