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Global Warming

Russia and China are in front of the US in nuclear energy abroad​

Russia is leading in selling its nuclear technology abroad, with 19 reactors — mostly conventional — under construction in seven countries. China is selling two overseas but is building more than any nation at home, and has the only land-based small modular reactor (SMR) operating commercially. The US has no international projects under construction but is courting countries with its SMR technology.​


Some interesting reading.
What's the bet that absolutely no-one but the people in power gets any say in China or Russia etc regarding nukes??? Them democratic countries get to have years n years of protests, legal challenges, sabotage n obstruction before a shovel full of dirt is turned. Life in prison or a permanent position composting the vegie patch for anyone who complains elsewhere.
 
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What's the bet that absolutely no-one but the people in power gets any say in China or Russia etc regarding nukes??? Them democratic countries get to have years n years of protests, legal challenges, sabotage n obstruction before a shovel full of dirt is turned. Life in prison or a permanent position composting the vegie patch for anyone who complains elsewhere.
Yes well I don’t think they worry too much about planning and development applications, public consultation, EPA reports, etc. no red tape or bureaucratic nonsense to deal with.
That would save time and $billions.
I don’t know what people get tied up in knots for. They all say we need to go “green”
working episode 5 GIF
 
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Yes well I don’t think they worry too much about planning and development applications, public consultation, EPA reports, etc. no red tape or bureaucratic nonsense to deal with.
That would save time and $billions.
I don’t know what people get tied up in knots for. They all say we need to go “green”
working episode 5 GIF

Just some context around China in the below article (I won't even go into the jist of the article, which is the only way the coalition can get nuclear to even come close to costing is is by amortising over 100 years when no reactor has ever got past 60 in human history).

China added 1GW of nuclear last year but added 200GW of solar alone. So they have pushed solar at a rate of 200/1 vs nuclear. Seems like even China only see nuclear as a backup, not as a cost effective method of generating power.

 
Just some context around China in the below article (I won't even go into the jist of the article, which is the only way the coalition can get nuclear to even come close to costing is is by amortising over 100 years when no reactor has ever got past 60 in human history).
Must take with a grain of salt all the arguments for and against at this stage. I said earlier in the piece until there is something concrete to go on, there will be a ton of supposition, claims and counter claims. I’d rather wait until the type, size, location etc has been decided upon. Rather than the endless conjecture we’re going to be in for.
China added 1GW of nuclear last year but added 200GW of solar alone. So they have pushed solar at a rate of 200/1 vs nuclear. Seems like even China only see nuclear as a backup, not as a cost effective method of generating power.
I think you need to look at the whole picture.
How much is generated by nuclear now.
To go with the hydro at the 3 Gorges Dams.

I doubt that’s the case they're going solar and wind and shutting down any reactor in reasonable condition and life.

But remember they have upwards of 55 nuclear reactors for the major population and industrial centres
And they’re building more.
The ground work for the major cities and industrial areas has largely been done.

100/1 in that instance.But that doesn’t tell anywhere near the whole story or even part of it.
More here…

It’s ok to use all that renewable product they make on home soil, especially for those remote and rural areas.

I doubt they.l be closing those reactors down and putting in 100billion solar panels and batteries for cities of more than 1 million people.
They have 145 cities with over 1 million people, 21 cities with over 5 million people and 10 cities with over 10 million people.
Eye watering figures.
 
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China added 1GW of nuclear last year but added 200GW of solar alone. So they have pushed solar at a rate of 200/1 vs nuclear. Seems like even China only see nuclear as a backup,
And therein lies the core of the issue. Even with massive amounts of solar or wind there still needs to be a functional and viable back up system whether it be from coal, gas or nuke. There still needs to be some form of base load power to ensure that modern society can keep operating 24 hours a day seven days a week.
 
China added 1GW of nuclear last year but added 200GW of solar alone. So they have pushed solar at a rate of 200/1 vs nuclear. Seems like even China only see nuclear as a backup, not as a cost effective method of generating power.
And therein lies the core of the issue. Even with massive amounts of solar or wind there still needs to be a functional and viable back up system whether it be from coal, gas or nuke. There still needs to be some form of base load power to ensure that modern society can keep operating 24 hours a day seven days a week.
The Chinese already have 55 nuclear reactors and are building another 23 nuclear reactors.

So while you say a ration of 200/1 sounds like they’re dumping nuclear for solar. It’s not the case. Major cities and industrial areas are already serviced by nuclear power. Then add in the Three Gorges Dams ($28.8 billion) - hydro 22,500 MW the equivalent to approx 15 nuclear power plants. Most of the hard yards have been done

I believe the solar/ renewables are destined for the rural and remote areas. Which makes sense seeing as how China produces the lions share of the world’s supply of solar, wind turbines and batteries.
 
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Here we go again, a nuclear renaissance, wonder if this one will happen or if it will be the same as all the previous nuclear renaissances. We seem to get one of these every decade or two but the number of nuclear power stations is still less than late last century.

Dutton wants Australia to join the “nuclear renaissance” – but this dream has failed before

Last week, opposition leader Peter Dutton called for Australia to join what he dubbed the “international nuclear energy renaissance”.


The same phrase was used 20 years ago to describe plans for a massive expansion of nuclear. New Generation III plants would be safer and more efficient than the Generation II plants built in the 1970s and 1980s. But the supposed renaissance delivered only a trickle of new reactors – barely enough to replace retiring plants.


If there was ever going to be a nuclear renaissance, it was then. Back then, solar and wind were still expensive and batteries able to power cars or store power for the grid were in their infancy.


Even if these new smaller, modular reactors can overcome the massive cost blowouts which inevitably dog large plants, it’s too late for nuclear in Australia. As a new report points out, nuclear would be wildly uncompetitive, costing far more per megawatt hour (MWh) than it does to take energy from sun or wind.


The nuclear renaissance that wasn’t​


Early in the 21st century, the outlook for nuclear energy seemed more promising than it had in years. As evidence on the dangers of global heating mounted, it became clear that the expansion of coal-fired power in the 1990s – especially in Asia – had been a mistake.


And despite the prevalence of slogans such as ‘Solar not Nuclear’, the cost of solar and wind energy was then too high to make fully renewable systems a reality.


The rise of Generation III and III+ designs promised to eliminate or at least greatly reduce the risk of accidents like those at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.


The time seemed right for a nuclear renaissance – especially in the United States. Between 2007 and 2009, 13 companies applied for construction and operating licenses to build 31 new nuclear power reactors. But all but two of these proposals stayed on paper.

The first, in Georgia, is expected to be completed this year after running way behind schedule and way over budget. The other project in South Carolina was abandoned in 2017 after billions of dollars had already been poured into it. The same disastrous cost and time blowouts have hit new reactors in France (Flamanville, 10 years behind schedule), Finland (Olkiluoto, which opened this year after a 14 year delay) and the UK (Hinkley Point C, still under construction with cost and time blowouts).


China has built a trickle of new nuclear plants, commissioning three or four a year over the last decade. China currently has about 50 gigawatts (GW) of nuclear power capacity. This pales into insignificance compared to the nation’s extraordinary expansion of solar, with 95-120 gigawatts of additional capacity expected this year alone.

Nuclear falls short on cost, not politics​


What went wrong for nuclear? Despite the claims of some nuclear advocates, the renaissance in the 2000s did not fall short because of political resistance. Far from it – the renaissance had broad political support in key markets.


And, unlike in the 1970s where intense anti-nuclear sentiment was tied to fears of nuclear war, environmentalists in the 2000s had refocused on the need to stop burning carbon-based fuels. Anti-nuclear campaigns and protest marches were almost non-existent.


What stopped the nuclear noughties was a bigger problem: economics. Governments looking at nuclear saw the cost and time over-runs and decided it wasn’t worth it.


As megaproject expert Bent Flyvbjerg has shown, cost overruns like these are typical. First of a kind nuclear plants offer an extreme example of the problem. To date, no Generation III or III+ design has been produced at scales large enough to iron out the inevitable early problems.


At the same time, other energy sources were growing in importance. The United States found ways of tapping its unconventional shale gas reserves.


All the while, solar and wind were getting cheaper and cheaper, driven by generous subsidies from European governments such as Germany and manufacturing economies of scale in China. Solar and wind production ramped up exponentially, growing around 30% a year every year since the beginning of the century.


In Australia, the writing was on the wall by 2007, when an inquiry found new nuclear power would struggle to compete with either coal or renewables. A string of subsequent inquiries have come to precisely the same conclusion.


Could it be different this time?​


To make nuclear viable these days, advocates believe, means making it safe, cheap and easy to build. No more megaprojects. Instead, build small reactors en masse on factory production lines, ship them to where they are needed and install them in numbers matching the needs of the area.


Advocates hope the efficiency of factory production will offset the lower efficiency associated with smaller capacity. Ironically, off-site mass production and modular installation is the basis of the success of solar and wind.


To date, the most promising reactor design is NuScale’s VOYGR. It has yet to be produced and the US company has no firm orders. It does have preliminary agreements to build six reactors in Utah by 2030 and another four in Romania.

If all are built, that’s still less than the capacity of a single large Gen III plant. More strikingly, it’s about the same as the new solar capacity installed every single day (~710 MW) this year around the world.


Even with US government subsidies, NuScale estimates its power would cost A$132 per MWh. In Australia, average wholesale prices in the first quarter of 2023 ranged from $64 per MWh in Victoria to 114 per MWh in Queensland.


So why, then, is Australia’s opposition still talking about new nuclear? Dutton claims Australia’s future nuclear submarines to be built under the AUKUS deal are “essentially floating SMRs”. This is a red herring – while submarine reactors are small, they are not modular.


The simplest answer is political gain. Announcements like this yield political benefits at low cost.


The US, UK and France have decades of experience in nuclear power, even if failures outnumber successes. So yes, there is a slim chance the latest “nuclear renaissance” will succeed in these countries.


But in Australia, promises to create a nuclear power industry from scratch based on as yet unproven technologies and in competition with cheap renewables is simply delusional.

From The Conversation in 2023.


Seen this before . . . yawn.

Still no solution to the waste.

Still the case that Australia is not about to build nukes and this is just Dutton's sideshow to prolong the use of fossil fuels.

DS
 
Must take with a grain of salt all the arguments for and against at this stage. I said earlier in the piece until there is something concrete to go on, there will be a ton of supposition, claims and counter claims. I’d rather wait until the type, size, location etc has been decided upon. Rather than the endless conjecture we’re going to be in for.
It is unlikely you will have any of that info bride the next election, or probably the one after that. Dutton has said a new nuclear agency will decide those things. That is an agency that will need to be formed then do some investigation before any further details can be known.

Is it really a good idea to mortgage our energy future on a plan that is so light on detail and so many years from having these details possibly known?

In the meantime investment in other forms of energy will be slashed due to the uncertainty, and the "cap" the deputy opposition leader spoke of.
 

The nuclear renaissance that wasn’t​

The rise of Generation III and III+ designs promised to eliminate or at least greatly reduce the risk of accidents like those at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.
Must be an old article. They’re now developing Generation IV reactors
The time seemed right for a nuclear renaissance – especially in the United States. Between 2007 and 2009, 13 companies applied for construction and operating licenses to build 31 new nuclear power reactors. But all but two of these proposals stayed on paper.
Very old
China has built a trickle of new nuclear plants, commissioning three or four a year over the last decade. China currently has about 50 gigawatts (GW) of nuclear power capacity. This pales into insignificance compared to the nation’s extraordinary expansion of solar, with 95-120 gigawatts of additional capacity expected this year alone.
55 nuclear reactors in use. Another 23 under construction.
More solar going in isn’t a surprise. As I posted earlier. Most of the cities, manufacturing and industrial areas already have their secure 24/7 power generation built.
Add in the massive hydro 3 Gorges Dam, the equivalent to 15 nuclear reactors itself. That shows you the massive capital already out laid.
Given China is the biggest producer of solar panels, inverters, batteries and wind turbine technology, it makes sense they will use their own products in rural and remote areas.
Most of the country has already have its power generation planned for, with another 23 reactors under construction shows a willingness to embrace fit for purpose technology.
2023.


Seen this before . . . yawn.

Still no solution to the waste.

Still the case that Australia is not about to build nukes and this is just Dutton's sideshow to prolong the use of fossil fuels.
We’ll get the *smile* greenies to *smile* off and we can get rid of coal fired generators and build gas fired generation plants. L
It’s a compromise. More efficient than coal, less dirty than coal. 24/7 secure coverage.
But we can’t have that either if we have to get to net zero.
Meanwhile everyone else laughs at us sitting in the dark, cold and miserable eating raw goannas
 
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Yes, they are claiming to develop Gen IV reactors. But, the point is, if their Gen IV promises are anything like the promises they made about Gen III reactors 20 years ago, then they are as hollow as the claims for a nuclear renaissance.

We also need to actually look at how grids operate, how reliable fossil fuel/nuclear are and how clean renewables can deliver reliable power, here's a good article:

https://e360.yale.edu/features/three-myths-about-renewable-energy-and-the-grid-debunked

DS
 
Yes, they are claiming to develop Gen IV reactors. But, the point is, if their Gen IV promises are anything like the promises they made about Gen III reactors 20 years ago, then they are as hollow as the claims for a nuclear renaissance.

We also need to actually look at how grids operate, how reliable fossil fuel/nuclear are and how clean renewables can deliver reliable power, here's a good article:

https://e360.yale.edu/features/three-myths-about-renewable-energy-and-the-grid-debunked

DS
A good article, really? It’s a few years old and out of date.
I didn’t see one rebuttal to any of the 3 myths. Waffles on and on. Refers mostly to Germany. Never references Germany imports electricity.
Hardly a mention to battery storage or 24/7 energy security.
Never mentions how renewables and grid stabilisation. Mainly compares Germany to the US in rate of outages. Geographically two completely different scenarios.

If the author got paid to write an article like that he’s found a way to make easy money.
 
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Wow, you have trouble with that article and believe the BS the nuclear industry churns out :rotfl1:rotfl2

FFS look at the claims the nuke apologists have made for decades and ask yourself how they have any credibility (hint: they have none).

DS
 
Wow, you have trouble with that article and believe the BS the nuclear industry churns out :rotfl1:rotfl2

FFS look at the claims the nuke apologists have made for decades and ask yourself how they have any credibility (hint: they have none).

DS
Now you’re just taking the *smile*.
The article you posted was just a lot of….well nothing. I had no trouble with it at all. You must really be running out of material or you didn’t actually read it all.

Now you’re just deflecting to something else.
 
No worries Willo, just keep believing the nuke propaganda, their record of BS is second to none but if you wish to remain gullible it ain't my problem.

Gen III nukes promised 20 years ago didn't happen, Gen IV is shaping the same way, Dutton's nuke plans are a distraction. All of this is bleedingly obvious to most of us.

DS
 
No worries Willo, just keep believing the nuke propaganda, their record of BS is second to none but if you wish to remain gullible it ain't my problem.

Gen III nukes promised 20 years ago didn't happen, Gen IV is shaping the same way, Dutton's nuke plans are a distraction. All of this is bleedingly obvious to most of us.

DS
WTF are you rambling on about now?
You posted a crap article to which I responded to after reading it.

Now you’re off on your usual anti nuke ramble.
You forgot the part about nuclear waste. That generally gets a run.
But you got Dutton and his distraction in again :giggle:
But missed mentioning the distraction was to keep using fossil fuels.

Don’t worry I’ll fill the gaps for you when you do a Sleepy Joe and forget to put them in.
 
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Aah, I should have known, still have to mention that nuclear waste has no solution and Dutton's little charade is to prolong the use of fossil fuels. I thought you would have got that by now but it seems you are a bit slow.

By the way, still no comment on the penultimate nuclear renaissance that was meant to happen with Gen III reactors 20 years ago? That went well, actually it did, because it just didn't happen. Still, I will give the nuke industry one thing, they are excellent, without peer, at recycling their propaganda. Every time they do it more gullible folk seem to believe it too.

DS