Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Global Warming

Also, typical Morrison trying to get credit for Albanese's work by announcing the sub deal in 2021 when he was still PM.
Proposed and confirmed. Two totally different concepts.

Who signed off on them? And what is the date? And who is the PM?


March 16, 20232:06 P
SYDNEY, March 16 (Reuters) - Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese on Thursday defended the country's A$368 billion ($244.06 billion) plan to acquire nuclear submarines, after two former leaders criticised the deal over its cost, complexity and potential sovereignty issues.
Unveiled on Tuesday in San Diego, the multi-decade AUKUS project will see Australia purchase U.S. Virginia-class submarines before joint British and Australian production and operation of a new submarine class, SSN-AUKUS.

And Albanese has agreed to the rotation of American B-52s armed with nuclear weapons in Australia.
And visiting American warships and submarines armed with nuclear weapons.

So we can have nuclear reactors, in our subs, American aircraft carriers and subs and nuclear weapons. And B-52 s than can carry nukes, rotating out of Australian airforce bases.
But nuclear energy is bad. Says Albanese and his supporters.
What a bunch of hysterical hypocrites.
But blame Morrison, Sleepy Joe. What about Abe Lincoln and Peter Labor. Can’t they get some blame or credit?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Proposed and confirmed. Two totally different concepts.

Who signed off on them? And what is the date? And who is the PM?


March 16, 20232:06 P
SYDNEY, March 16 (Reuters) - Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese on Thursday defended the country's A$368 billion ($244.06 billion) plan to acquire nuclear submarines, after two former leaders criticised the deal over its cost, complexity and potential sovereignty issues.
Unveiled on Tuesday in San Diego, the multi-decade AUKUS project will see Australia purchase U.S. Virginia-class submarines before joint British and Australian production and operation of a new submarine class, SSN-AUKUS.

And Albanese has agreed to the rotation of American B-52s armed with nuclear weapons in Australia.
And visiting American warships and submarines armed with nuclear weapons.

So we can have nuclear reactors, in our subs, American aircraft carriers and subs and nuclear weapons. And B-52 s than can carry nukes, rotating out of Australian airforce bases.
But nuclear energy is bad. Says Albanese and his supporters.
What a bunch of hysterical hypocrites.
But blame Morrison, Sleepy Joe. What about Abe Lincoln and Peter Labor. Can’t they get some blame or credit?
Our new army tanks are diesel I believe. Should we be using diesel to power the country.

No, because anyone with any sense can see what we use to power subs is completely irrelevant to what we use to power our homes and businesses.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 3 users
Our new army tanks are diesel I believe. Should we be using diesel to power the country.
It’s a wonder we don’t have them use ev’s
No, because anyone with any sense can see what we use to power subs is completely irrelevant to what we use to power our homes and businesses.
Bullshitttttt.

And don’t deflect.
You blokes don’t like it that Albo and the Labor government have signed off off on us having nuclear powered subs and having a nuclear tech force for repairs and changeouts.
Then there’s our strategic partner/ally having their own nuclear powered ships and boats and nuclear weapons coming to Australia. As long as they’re only visiting, no Labor voters will castigate that decision. Maybe the odd anti nuclear activist will wave a flag somewhere.
I wonder whether we will be storing some of those nukes for them somewhere?

What a joke.
 
It’s a wonder we don’t have them use ev’s

Bullshitttttt.

And don’t deflect.
You blokes don’t like it that Albo and the Labor government have signed off off on us having nuclear powered subs and having a nuclear tech force for repairs and changeouts.
Then there’s our strategic partner/ally having their own nuclear powered ships and boats and nuclear weapons coming to Australia. As long as they’re only visiting, no Labor voters will castigate that decision. Maybe the odd anti nuclear activist will wave a flag somewhere.
I wonder whether we will be storing some of those nukes for them somewhere?

What a joke.
Willo, your are becoming more and more like Tigaman, waving your fist at the clouds, every day.

If nothing else, the fact that the Labor party are buying nuclear subs shows they are not blindly anti-nuclear like you try to suggest. The performance and economics for nuclear subs obviously stacks up.
The performance and economics for nuclear power does not.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Geez, talk about a reality distortion field, Morrison initiated and did the deal on nuclear subs. The fact that the ALP didn't oppose this was all about politics and was a *smile* decision. The nuclear subs are silly, I've said this many times but some people just live in their own fairly land.

Speaking of no idea, we need to talk about how "baseload" is BS:

The origins of baseload​


Baseload power is the minimum level of demand on the grid over a period of time. It has traditionally occurred around 4am.

When the Australian grid was expanded in the 1950s–1970s, the leading option was coal as it offered cheap power and was reliable. There were fewer concerns about emissions or global warming back then.

Coal-fired power stations are designed not to be switched off. They can take days to fire up from cold to full capacity and it’s very uneconomical to shut them off at times of low demand. Australia’s coal plants were therefore sized so they could run continuously, being scaled back to a minimum output overnight and scaled up during the day as demand rose. If the coal plants reached full capacity, then additional generation was brought in as needed from sources such as gas and hydro.

However, there generally wasn’t enough demand overnight to keep the coal plants ticking over, so regulators and operators offered very low-cost electricity for consumers to run their hot water systems in the middle of the night and use up the excess generator power that was available, thereby sustaining the “baseload” on the power stations.

So baseload was also the minimum amount of power the coal plants could supply to the grid without having to be turned off.

And therein lies the problem…

What is happening today?​


Coal-fired power stations have served Australia well. As a country with an extensive coal mining industry, keeping domestic demand for coal high has also served the Australian economy well.

Today there is more and more power from variable renewable sources feeding into the grid. On a windy night when wind farms are generating a lot of power at zero marginal cost, the wholesale price of electricity can go negative. Coal plant operators are then effectively paying wholesale consumers to take their power, because that is still preferable to shutting the plant down.

And it goes further. The increasing penetration of rooftop solar on Australian homes is eroding baseload so much that the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) recently forecast minimum demand would no longer occur at night, but during the middle of the day across all Australian regions within the next year or two.

It’s not only the time of day. The level of minimum demand is falling to lower and lower percentages of maximum demand. In South Australia, AEMO expects minimum grid demand to go negative by 2023/24. Let’s put that another way: within five years there will be no baseload in South Australia.

This operating environment is increasingly unsuitable for coal-fired plants that like to maintain a steady output. This, coupled with increasingly severe weather events, is making the cracks appear in Australia’s aging fossil fuel infrastructure.

Australia’s coal and gas power stations had almost 100 breakdowns recorded in the seven-month period to the end of June 2018.

Within a decade, over two thirds of coal plants in Australia's National Electricity Market will be 50 years or older, technically obsolete, unreliable and costly to maintain.


The future​


With the progressive erosion of baseload it’s clear that Australia’s future grid will not need large amounts of continuous, constant generation. What is needed is flexibility and reliability of supply and that will most likely be delivered by a combination of renewables, storage and gas.

Combining low cost wind and solar PV with other renewable energy technologies such as solar thermal, hydro and biomass plants can provide round-the-clock or on-demand power as well as meeting technical requirements for grid st....

Renewables such as wind and solar are often criticised for being intermittent and unpredictable. That’s partly true, but it doesn’t need to be a problem.

While the output from a single wind farm will fluctuate greatly, the aggregated output from a number of geographically dispersed wind farms will fluctuate much less and be partially predictable. This is because short term and local fluctuations will tend to balance each other out.

If the wind isn’t blowing anywhere, that’s when other mechanisms come into play.

0


Source: ARENA - Comparison of Dispatchable Renewable Energy Options

Storage​


Adding energy storage such as grid scale batteries, heat storage (from solar thermal plant) and pumped hydro can complement high levels of wind and solar power in the electricity grid by storing excess renewable energy for use later.

Depending on the time frame required for the storage, different mechanisms emerge as the best candidate:


  • Short term: battery storage paired with solar PV or wind

  • 6-24 hours: pumped hydro or solar thermal.

  • Longer term: hydrogen and biomass

Storage is also more flexible and faster to respond than coal and gas plants, enhancing the reliability of the grid. If there is an increase in demand, a coal-fired power station will take hours to meet it, a gas turbine 10 to 20 minutes, pumped hydro anywhere from 20 seconds to two minutes and batteries will take about a second.

Australia already has the world’s largest grid-connected battery (for now) as well as thousands of potential sites for pumped hydro, some of which could be developed as early as 2022.

The real challenge is to supply peaks in demand on calm winter evenings following overcast days. That’s when the peak-load power stations such as hydro and gas turbines can make vital contributions by filling gaps in wind and solar generation.

Demand side management​


Another angle to consider is the demand side. The simple idea behind demand response is that rather than pay to increase how much capacity is available, utilities pay to reduce the amount of electricity consumers use. It’s cheaper and more efficient and particularly useful at peak times.

Managing demand to follow supply may sound unusual but it’s what we’ve been doing for decades in Australia with the overnight hot water tariffs. With electric vehicles expected to proliferate in the coming years, managing when EVs are charged will be an important way to balance the load on the grid.

The importance of transmission​


Transmission and a suitably interconnected grid is also key to managing the variable output from these diverse sources.

In Australia we have a long, thin grid that is predominantly comprised of overhead power lines and is therefore susceptible to extreme weather events such as bushfires, storms and floods where there is inadequate interconnection.

AEMO’s 2018 Integrated System Plan called for immediate investment in transmission and highlighted that “an interconnected energy highway would provide better use of resources across the NEM, through both access to lower-cost resources and realising the benefits of diversity from different resources in different locations with different generation profiles”.

Conclusions​


In future, "baseload" will no longer be synonymous with coal; it will be a term people use to describe any sort of reliable power that meets our minimum needs.

As more variable renewable energy is fed into networks around the world, it is creating an operating environment in which it is more challenging for conventional generators to remain viable, especially those with little or no flexibility to ramp up and down.

Australia is ready to switch to a modern grid, predominantly powered by renewables and storage. The only thing stopping this is political will.




We can and will build an electricity system based around renewables, the question is whether it gets postponed by the nuke distraction.

But the other factor is how reliable nukes are. They talk about reliable power? Tell that to France. Their reactors were 30-40% down on their energy production in the summer of 2022, so much so that France had to import energy. This will not improve with the age of the reactors in France, and the reactors in the USA are of a similar age (old). The reality is that nukes have reliability issues and require back up.

We need to get on with the renewable transition not stupid distractions like the half baked non-proposal for nukes.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
While on the topic of Dutton's nuke distraction, here's a good article from reneweconomy:

Dutton’s big nuclear plan: “A serious joke” that is mad, bad and dangerous​

So, here it is, finally, the Coalition’s nuclear policy – a massive and dangerous boondoggle to build expensive nuclear power plants that presents a serious threat to Australia’s renewable energy transition, and the country’s economic future.


It’s a policy that is all about power, not so much on the grid as to what flows through the corridors of parliament house and in the channels of mainstream and social media.


And amid all the insults about the stupidity, the impracticality, and moral vacuum of the plan, energy minister Chris Bowen probably best summed it up: “It’s a joke, but a serious joke because it threatens the renewable transition.”



And that much is true. It’s what the policy is designed to do. It may make no sense, but it is designed to be deliberately populist and has been enthusiastically supported by the Murdochs and the fossil fuel industry.


As noted in this article, the plan outlined by opposition leader Peter Dutton is broadly this: Build seven nuclear plants at the sites of existing or shuttered coal fired power stations. There will be small modular reactors in South Australia and Western Australia (at Port Augusta and Collie), and the Coalition laughingly believes this can be done by 2035, even though SMRs don’t yet exist, federal and state law prohibits it, and there is no regulatory infrastructure.


Big nuclear – huge plants up to 1.4 gigawatts (GW) – are proposed for Victoria (Loy Yang), NSW (Liddell in the Hunter Valley and Mt Piper near Lithgow) and Queensland (Tarong and Callide).


The plan has already been dubbed as the latest Coalkeeper, because that is essentially what it is. Should the Coalition win power, it means coal fired power stations will be kept open, and investment in new large scale renewable and storage projects will be killed. Contracts will even be ripped up.


But it will do more than stop wind and solar. It will result in more fossil fuels in the form of gas fired power stations, cripple investment in new green industries and exports, and cause Australia to tear up its part of the Paris climate agreement.


In short, it would deliver everything that the coal lobby and climate deniers have been pushing for over the last few decades.



“I’m not interested in lining the pockets of rich green millionaires,” said Dutton, who infamously flew across the country to wish happy birthday for an hour to Australia’s richest person, the mining billionaire and arch renewables critic Gina Rinehart.


About the only part of the Coalition plan that follows any sort of logic is the fact that it would use the federal government-owned Snowy Hydro as the vehicle to build nuclear. It is not surprising. Renew Economy has been suggesting this would be the case for months, because no private investor will go anywhere near nuclear power.


The farcical Snowy 2.0 pumped hydro scheme provides a precedence for vast, ill conceived projects that run hugely over budget and with massive delays, and which crowd out other investment – which nuclear will inevitably do.


And because it will be entirely taxpayer funded, the true cost can be hidden from consumer energy bills. And just as the government waved away the massive spend on nuclear subs, so it will do for these generators. Together, they will amount to more than half a trillion dollars – that’s a lot of schools, hospitals, houses, solar panels and energy efficient appliances.


Government funding will also have to come for insurance, because once again no private insurer will go near nuclear, and that insurance will likely have to cover homes and businesses nearby, because no private insurer is prepared to cover those risks, either.


The sites chosen are predictable. It’s where coal fired power stations operate, or have recently been closed. They have strong transmission links, and local communities. But the sites also have significant problems.


For a start, the Coalition has chosen Port Augusta in South Australia, where the last coal fired power station closed in 2016, and Collie in Western Australia, where units are already being closed and where the last coal generator will close by the end of the decade.


In both states the output of rooftop solar has already, or will soon, reach levels that equal all local demand, squeezing out gas and even other renewable generators.


By the early 2040s, there will be four times as much rooftop solar in those states – so how exactly does the Coalition believe it can jam nuclear into a grid which needs no new power in the day. It’s complete lunacy and energy illiteracy.


These sites are also likely to have their transmission capacities well used by the 2040s, or even the mid 2030s. There are already numerous very big wind, solar, battery projects at Port Augusta, and the transmission capacity in Collie will be largely swallowed by two of the country’s biggest battery storage projects already under construction.


As South Australia energy minister Tom Koutsantonis noted on Wednesday: “The myth that a nuclear reactor could just plug into the old Pt Augusta coal power station transmission lines is not true. The transmission lines are already nearly full from new renewables. In truth, a nuclear reactor at Pt Augusta would need new transmission lines.”


The same applies to the other sites targeted by the Coalition – in the Latrobe Valley, at AGL’s Liddell coal site in the Hunter Valley and EnergyAustralia’s Mt Piper coal site west of Lithgow. All these companies have detailed plans for solar, battery storage or even pumped hydro.


Damien Nicks, the boss of AGL which has two sites targeted by the Coalition – Liddell and Loy Yang – has repeatedly said nuclear forms no part of its plans, and that it wants to create new clean energy and industrial hubs. “As the owner of these sites, nuclear energy is not a part of these plans,” he said in March.


On Wednesday, it reissued that statement. “There is no viable schedule for the regulation or development of nuclear energy in Australia, and the cost, build time and public opinion are all prohibitive,” Nicks said.


“Policy certainty is important for companies like AGL and ongoing debate on the matter runs the risk of unnecessarily complicating the long-term investment decisions necessary for the energy transition.”


Does the Coalition intend to curtail or prevent this private investment? It certainly sounds like it, and in government it does have form on this – having threatened one of Nicks’ predecessors, the American Andy Vesey, when he dared to announce the closure of Liddell, and all but chasing him out of the country.


EnergyAustralia is the other major private player targeted by the Coalition. Its parent, the Hong Kong-based CLP, has nuclear interests in China.


In a statement, an EA spokesperson told RenewEconomy no one had talked to it about the Mt Piper facility, where it has previously announced plans for a big battery, a pumped hydro facility and nearby renewables.


“Beyond our focus on deploying available technologies, there is much still to do in the energy transition in the 2030s and beyond. EnergyAustralia is technology neutral as to what will be required. Nuclear is recognised internationally as a zero carbon energy generation technology, one that needs a good regulatory framework and a well developed industry to deliver support it.


“We regularly talk energy with governments, politicians and regulators about how to deliver the best possible energy outcomes for customers through the transition. To date, we have not discussed the use of any EnergyAustralia sites in the context of nuclear.”


How committed are the big utilities to the green energy transition? Good question. So far they have invested very little in new wind and solar, and as Origin Energy has demonstrated with the agreed extension of its Eraring coal generator, big utilities are very capable of waiving away promises of sustainability and climate targets if the government is delivering a sufficient ransom to satisfy its shareholders. Money talks.


The big concern is that the outright and outrageous lies spread by the Coalition and its media mouthpieces will only intensify: the blackout fears, the attacks on CSIRO and AEMO, the nonsense about “cheap” nuclear; the verbal assaults and threats against renewable supporters, including this publication.


And there is not much that mainstream media will do about it. ABC’s Radio National, for instance, broadcast a largely unchallenged interview on Wednesday morning with LNP MP and climate denialist Keith Pitt, who said that wind and solar cannot provide more than 10 per cent of power on the grid without causing major problems.


This is demonstrable nonsense. The share of wind and solar on the overall grid has been more than 30 per cent in the last 12 months, and has been more than 75 per cent in South Australia, which has been reliable and is attracting significant new industry to the state because it is cheap, clean and reliable.


ABC journalists are known for often ferocious questioning on some obscure details, but on the matter of energy there appears to be a complete lack of curiosity and holding to account.


The market operator has outlined a detailed plan on how the grid can move to instants of 100 per cent renewables, and an average of more than 95 per cent renewables within a decade.


Yes, there are engineering challenges, but not as much as trying to keep an ageing coal clunker on the grid, or building the massive back-up needed for a 1.4 GW nuclear unit.


The Coalition’s claim about Labor’s transmission plans are also nonsense (it’s actually 5,000 kms versus the Coalition 28,000 kms claims). Its claims about nuclear in the G20 are also not true, its verbalising of the market operator’s warning on blackouts a complete fabrication, and its proposed timelines for Australian nuclear are a stuff of fantasy.


Don’t expect this to stop. If this strategy was about accelerating Australia’s emissions reductions, it might be worth discussion. But that is not the intention.


This is about stopping one industry by creating fear, uncertainty, doubt and division. It’s an age-old tactic, a favoured one of incumbents and the fossil fuel industry, and one skillfully deployed by Trump in the US, populists in the UK on Brexit, and Dutton himself in last year’s referendum.


But don’t be surprised if the big investors queuing up to invest hundreds of billions into Australia’s clean energy industry just shrug their shoulders, as AGL suggests, and decide: These guys are nuts, it’s not worth the risk: Let’s just move on. And therein lies the tragedy. Plus ça change.



Worth noting that new transmission lines would be required by any nukes, so the argument that transmission lines is an issue only for renewables is exposed for the lie that it always was.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The SA grid is reliable because it imports electricity from Vic and Tas.
When VRE penetration increases in Vic and its needs the electricity SA will face blackouts and this is pretty well understood by its leadership.

Can't buy this line.
"Australia is ready to switch to a modern grid, predominantly powered by renewables and storage. The only thing stopping this is political will."

Maybe, "with political will and an embrace of reality Australia can progress on its switch to a modern grid - but it's going to be a bumpy ride"


Australia is nowhere near ready - there is going to be significant pain. We will see how the winter and summers of '26'27 play out.

100% agree nuclear is nonsensical for Australia. We are going to be getting lots of cheap solar and that will create an obvious price for power that can be generated at night - storage, wind, gas and to a smaller extent in winter.

The dirty/clean secret is all of this is going to be significantly more expensive than the current marginal cost (excluding whatever cost you apply to CO2 emissions) of coal generated electricity. But this point is going to be played out with political point scoring for decades to come. Essentially lots of kit is going to have to be there to be at overcapacity - and to some extent this is where the actual cost of solar is massively understated as it massively free rides at the moment on the intermittency it creates.

i.e. at 100% coal you only need probably 120% capacity (say 20% unreliability)
at 50% solar, you still need 120% of something else when it isn't working but it only gets paid when the solar isn't on ... so it need to get paid twice as much to be there as a backup...
at 100% solar you don't have power all the time obviously

Higher prices will be good in that it incentivizes basic demand retardation like insulation and reduction of wastage and incentivizes load switching to when supply is cheap. They will also cause pain in that it will hurt the poorest in the community the most. Basically, we will use less power when the price goes up and quality of life will go down in some shape or form for society in general.

Pretty simple concept really.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
At the moment there is a tendency to go for the low hanging fruit, which is solar and wind. What needs to change is we pursue the solar and wind, but we add in some of the renewables which can be turned on quicker and can store power - such as solar collecting with heat storage, there's some moves to things like compressed air, pumped hydro - basically ways to store energy which can be converted into electricity as and when needed. I agree we need to do some planning.

The concept of marginal cost is a bit of an economics furphy. This is based on fallacious notions of the supply curve. The reality, backed up by research on actual firms producing things, is that suppliers want to supply up to near capacity as this gives them the highest return - depending on the numbers they will actually reduce price to get near capacity. Coal fired power stations are not easy, and are very slow, to ramp up and down - they are best off running at near capacity, or a steady rate, all the time, and that does not suit a system which has large elements of renewables which are variable (same applies to nukes). What is needed is capacity which can be turned on and off at short notice, some of this can be covered by batteries, but we need lots of stored energy as batteries are not particularly efficient.

The reality also is that there will need to be demand management. It isn't as if this hasn't been the case in the past. The classic example cited above being the night rate hot water systems many houses had which were designed to use energy when demand was low and supply was still pumping out in a grid dominated by coal. Demand management has to be part of the equation but it is subject to scare campaigns so difficult to sell.

DS
 
A large party of the long term solution will be massive ev penetration and centralised control of those batteries. Decades away though.

Whatever it ends up being the government has created a rod for its own back saying renewables will be cheaper. It’s just not true IF you want reliable supply. At best it demonstrates a fundamental Misunderstanding of what high VRE penetration costs and at worst a wilful misrepresentation of the truth to drive an agenda. I think much of the problem lies in that a lot of the initial economics got done when capital was almost free - which leads to crazy solutions like green hydrogen (as an electrical storage medium) looking almost economic.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
At the moment the federal government doesn’t have any plan.
Just bung solar farms in, onshore wind farms and offshore wind farms go in wherever there’s wind.
Where is the 24/7 backup? When do they start to initiate planning and sustainability before those coal fired power plants shutdown?
I’m betting the life of those power plants will be extended. Why?
Because the Federal government only wants to see the numbers of “renewables” increase for their “plan” of net zero. We’ll achieve “net zero” all right.
Ask Albo or Chris Bowen how they plan to energise the country. Yackety yack. Bio mass, hot rocks, hydrogen, pumped hydro, smoke and mirrors.
They haven’t got a plan. They’re winging it and the population, businesses and industry will pay the price.

No nuclear? Ok what have we got Australia wide at the moment? Next year? 5 years? 10?

the only answer is gas fired generators but we can’t have that because of “net zero”.
Renewables and gas fired generators would be cheaper and more sustainable.
But no. What have we got? What will be have? *smile* all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I just hope none of these ever let go. All the talk of “net zero” Will go up in smoke. Literally.

 

No surprise other government struggling too to understand basic chemistry and demand economics.
I don’t hold much faith any of our current politicians have any real knowledge of what they’re doing. Or what will work. When it will work. What needs to be done for 24/7 energy for households, businesses, industry, hospitals etc.
They’re just winging it.
“Net zeroooo” well what’s the plan?
Is Albo and Bowen going to let us know when and if they have a plan?

So far we have Duttons nukes. People reckon that’s a dud. Give us the alternatives.
 
I don’t hold much faith any of our current politicians have any real knowledge of what they’re doing. Or what will work. When it will work. What needs to be done for 24/7 energy for households, businesses, industry, hospitals etc.
They’re just winging it.
“Net zeroooo” well what’s the plan?
Is Albo and Bowen going to let us know when and if they have a plan?

So far we have Duttons nukes. People reckon that’s a dud. Give us the alternatives.
Willo I think a big problem is the federal / state split. We need a country solution - way too many cooks. QLD fracking and VIC banning it a classic example meaning excess supply (of gas) in qld and shortages in vic then vic blaming qld for not sharing when the pipes aren’t big enough to get it here anyway.

Federal gov is kind of a lame duck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
We've known it's real for about 40 years.

I've been riding motorbikes in the Himalayas for the last 15 days - the retreat of the glaciers each summer up the mountains is pretty stark and they don't come down as far each year. Locals here know all about it.

If the glacial/snow melts in summer fail that's about 1 billion people in the subcontinent who will need to find alternative water and food sources.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: 1 user