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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Global Warming
- Thread starter Disco08
- Start date
They are mostly Buddhists up here which means they don't mind what you wear.
Anyways, my point is that the climate is changing and it will *smile* us up one way or another.
I meant more about riding motorbikes there. As for the global warming side, aren't the bikes emitting fumes?
Ah gotcha. Nah there are heaps of bike tours and the locals ride them everywhere anyway. There is a huge military presence here as the Tibet/China border is close so you need permits and some roads are off limits. Most of the roads here were built for military use by the Border Roads Organisation (BRO)I meant more about riding motorbikes there. As for the global warming side, aren't the bikes emitting fumes?
, which adds a level of unitentional humour to their road warning signs.
Royal Enfield India launched a basic ADV bike called Himalayan in 2017, perfect for these conditions 411cc and pretty bulletproof.
Fumes! Of course. RE have electric bikes on the way but it will be a while before they are on the market.
I also flew to India but haven't been OS since I got back from Indonesia end of 2020 - this is how I rationalise my greenhouse gas contribution. I did also fart a lot due to high amounts of dal in my diet here.
Pools Willos.
You can't swim so you would just sort of be...well... microwaved I guess. Oh well.
Imagine the us screwing up solar.
In Australia the energy companies are saying how solar is impacting on the grid.
With the take up of rooftop solar, energy companies have reduced the feedin tariff. 12 - 18 months ago an average FIT of around 18c/kwh. Now down around 6c/kwh.
Meanwhile the domestic consumer is paying around 50c/kwh peak, 34c/kwh shoulder, 28c/kwh off peak, 98c @day supply charge. (Some variances).
Add in the ever increasing massive solar farms the grid stability issue will become more of an issue. Massive surplus of electricity being generated during the daytime hours and/or when sunny conditions prevail.
But solar farms continue to be built. Why? At the moment the absolute majority don’t have any storage facilities. Some domestic rooftop solar does.
Is there a plan for when solar reaches saturation point? Where is the excess going to go during the peak solar generating periods?
What are the future plans to utilise the excess?
So far all we’ve heard is the power companies want to be able to shutdown selected rooftop solar to stabilise the grid.
Does Albo or Bowen have any plan? What about the proposed offshore wind farms costing $10billion +. Will they also be turned off during the day and switch back on from evening to early morning?
We’ve been told Duttons nukes won’t ever be put into service. That’s fine. So what is Albo and Bowen’s plan for 24/7 power coverage?
Where is it? What is it? When will it be implemented?
Snowy to store gas at the Iona facility and play backstop to grid
Snowy Hydro has struck a 25-year deal to store gas in Victoria, in a move that will expand one of Australia’s most critical pieces of infrastructure.
Colin Packham | The Australian Business Network
July 14, 2024 3:50 pm
Snowy Hydro, the publicly owned energy generator and retailer, has struck a 25-year deal with Lochard to store gas in Victoria, in a move that will see an expansion of one of Australia’s most critical pieces of infrastructure.
Gas is widely seen as crucial in supporting renewable energy, and the deal will allow Snowy to store gas at the Iona facility. Gas is used as a so-called peaker, with gas power stations fired up when there is excess demand or little renewable energy, as witnessed recently when the country recorded unusually low wind.
In a deal that positions Snowy to play a backstop to the grid, the commonwealth-backed entity said it would store gas at Iona for 25 years from 2028.
Snowy Hydro chief executive Dennis Barnes said reliability and security of supply were central to the way Snowy Hydro operated.
“Snowy Hydro’s generating portfolio of hydro, pumping and gas-fired power stations continues to support further deployment of renewables into the grid by firming intermittent generation sources into reliable power. The gas storage agreement with Lochard Energy will support the operation of our gas-fired power stations in Victoria,” Mr Barnes said.
Tim Jessen, chief executive of Lochard Energy, said the deal would be a catalyst for its underground storage project.
“This important agreement will underpin Lochard’s Heytesbury Underground Gas Storage project through which we will further expand the Iona gas storage facility to continue to provide critical energy storage services in Victoria.”
While the deal will allow for an expansion of the gas storage, it is unclear where sufficient supplies of the fuel source are expected to come from.
Australia’s east coast is facing a looming gas shortfall as traditional sources run dry and new proposed developments struggle to secure government approvals amid pockets of opposition.
By 2028, ExxonMobil’s Longford facility – which supplies the majority of Australia’s east coast – is expected to be depleted.
Unless new sources of gas can be unlocked, Australia’s east coast may have to import LNG to meet needs, which many within the industry say will be more expensive.
Higher gas prices would be difficult for heavy users such as manufacturers, who insist they cannot switch to renewables, while higher prices would also eventually flow through to household and business electricity bills.
Many in Australia’s gas industry have implored the federal Labor government to hasten approvals for new developments and privately accused Canberra of demonstrating tepid support through its failure to expedite applications.
The federal government insists it is moving as quickly as it can without sacrificing due diligence, and highlights its recent policy statement on gas – which it described as vital.
But few public developments are evident and the country’s energy market operator earlier this year warned a supply shortfall could emerge as soon as next year if there was heightened demand, a pattern observed last month when the operator convened an emergency meeting.
The Australian Energy Market Operator has since tempered concerns about supplies this winter, though many within the industry remain on edge.
apple.news
Where and what is Albo and Bowen’s plan when they stop using gas? How much will it cost and when is the transition?
Net zero? Have they determined when gas usage will cease at all or are they just winging it?
Snowy Hydro has struck a 25-year deal to store gas in Victoria, in a move that will expand one of Australia’s most critical pieces of infrastructure.
Colin Packham | The Australian Business Network
July 14, 2024 3:50 pm
Snowy Hydro, the publicly owned energy generator and retailer, has struck a 25-year deal with Lochard to store gas in Victoria, in a move that will see an expansion of one of Australia’s most critical pieces of infrastructure.
Gas is widely seen as crucial in supporting renewable energy, and the deal will allow Snowy to store gas at the Iona facility. Gas is used as a so-called peaker, with gas power stations fired up when there is excess demand or little renewable energy, as witnessed recently when the country recorded unusually low wind.
In a deal that positions Snowy to play a backstop to the grid, the commonwealth-backed entity said it would store gas at Iona for 25 years from 2028.
Snowy Hydro chief executive Dennis Barnes said reliability and security of supply were central to the way Snowy Hydro operated.
“Snowy Hydro’s generating portfolio of hydro, pumping and gas-fired power stations continues to support further deployment of renewables into the grid by firming intermittent generation sources into reliable power. The gas storage agreement with Lochard Energy will support the operation of our gas-fired power stations in Victoria,” Mr Barnes said.
Tim Jessen, chief executive of Lochard Energy, said the deal would be a catalyst for its underground storage project.
“This important agreement will underpin Lochard’s Heytesbury Underground Gas Storage project through which we will further expand the Iona gas storage facility to continue to provide critical energy storage services in Victoria.”
While the deal will allow for an expansion of the gas storage, it is unclear where sufficient supplies of the fuel source are expected to come from.
Australia’s east coast is facing a looming gas shortfall as traditional sources run dry and new proposed developments struggle to secure government approvals amid pockets of opposition.
By 2028, ExxonMobil’s Longford facility – which supplies the majority of Australia’s east coast – is expected to be depleted.
Unless new sources of gas can be unlocked, Australia’s east coast may have to import LNG to meet needs, which many within the industry say will be more expensive.
Higher gas prices would be difficult for heavy users such as manufacturers, who insist they cannot switch to renewables, while higher prices would also eventually flow through to household and business electricity bills.
Many in Australia’s gas industry have implored the federal Labor government to hasten approvals for new developments and privately accused Canberra of demonstrating tepid support through its failure to expedite applications.
The federal government insists it is moving as quickly as it can without sacrificing due diligence, and highlights its recent policy statement on gas – which it described as vital.
But few public developments are evident and the country’s energy market operator earlier this year warned a supply shortfall could emerge as soon as next year if there was heightened demand, a pattern observed last month when the operator convened an emergency meeting.
The Australian Energy Market Operator has since tempered concerns about supplies this winter, though many within the industry remain on edge.
Snowy Hydro strikes long-term gas deal — Adelaide Advertiser
Snowy Hydro has struck a 25-year deal to store gas in Victoria, in a move that will expand one of Australia’s most critical pieces of infrastructure.
Where and what is Albo and Bowen’s plan when they stop using gas? How much will it cost and when is the transition?
Net zero? Have they determined when gas usage will cease at all or are they just winging it?
‘It’s good news’: Scientists suspect history about to be made in China
Evidence is mounting that some time over the past few months, China’s greenhouse gas emissions peaked. If so, it is likely that a global decline has begun.
For months, the reports came in and climate scientists and analysts pored over the data. Something unfamiliar was happening. It looked a little like good news. Perhaps even something of profound historical significance.
Ever since the industrial revolution began in the late 18th century, the amount of planetary warming greenhouse gases humans have been pumping into the atmosphere has grown inexorably, causing temperatures to climb dangerously over the past few decades.
Sure, there has been the odd dip over the years, blips that can be seen on a chart, but these tend only to emphasise some other catastrophe: World War II, the global financial crisis and more recently, the COVID pandemic.
As the global order repaired itself, the trend returned, ever upwards.
In 2019, humans pumped 35 billion tonnes of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. That number fell by a staggering 6 per cent the following year as COVID crunched industrial production and shut economies. At the time, the fall prompted despair in some climate commentators. Is this what it would take to make a dent in emissions? If so, how could such an outcome ever be achieved in a functioning economy?
As the pandemic receded, emissions surged predictably. By the end of 2021, the rebound had bitten. As the global economy restarted, emissions did not just grow; they surged. According to research published in Nature, in 2021 alone, greenhouse gas emissions grew by 4.8 per cent.
Much of this growth could be attributed to the Chinese Communist Party’s determination to return its nation to growth. To end the COVID recession, it kick-started construction of coal-fired power plants and it re-booted its real estate sector, ever hungry for emissions-intensive steel and concrete.
But it is data from the past few months that is intriguing analysts today. The world’s economy is growing. China’s economy is growing. Yet greenhouse gas emissions appear to have peaked.
Some time last year, or perhaps earlier this year, it appears China’s emissions, in particular, reached a high point. If China has peaked, there is good reason to believe global emissions peaked, too. It would mean that some time over the past few months, the stubborn nexus between economic growth and greenhouse gas pollution was snapped, and the 250-year surge in emissions ended.
Lauri Myllyvirta, senior fellow at the Asia Society Policy Institute and lead analyst at the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air, was among the first to go public with an analysis showing that China’s emissions might have peaked.
In November last year, he wrote that despite the post-COVID surge in emissions, China’s massive deployment of wind and solar energy, growth in EVs and an end to a drought that had cut hydroelectricity generation had caused emissions to tumble.
“A 2023 peak in China’s CO2 emissions is possible if the build-out of clean energy sources is kept at the record levels seen last year,” he wrote in an analysis for Carbon Brief based on official figures and commercial data.
Largely as a result of the China green surge, global investment in renewable technology in 2023 outstripped that in fossil fuels for the first time, the International Energy Agency reported.
Seen up close, that “build-out of clean energy” has a tendency to astound Western observers.
Last month, Australia’s Smart Energy Council took a delegation to China to visit renewable factories and the Shanghai New Energy Conference, an event that drew half a million delegates.
The group visited an EV manufacturer and saw two lines of production, each spitting out a completed EV every 36 seconds.
The SEC’s delegation including Tim Buckley, founder of Climate Energy Finance, a renewable energy consultancy, speaks of standing in a solar module manufacturing factory owned by TW Solar and gazing down a long corridor, unable to make out its end in the distance. “I saw a long wall, half a kilometre long, of manufacturing lines and not a worker in sight. It was all robots.”
Former Queensland premier Anastacia Palaszczuk, who now serves as an international ambassador for the SEC, recalls visiting a battery manufacturer that had 21,000 people working in its research and development division alone, up from 16,000 last year.
Buckley says this last point is critical to understanding the high-speed industrial revolution taking place.
Each week in 2023, says Buckley, China installed as much wind and solar infrastructure as Australia does in its best year. But without improvements in batteries, that energy cannot be stored and deployed overnight.
This makes China’s advances in battery technology a crucial next step. In May, Chinese car manufacturer BYD announced a new plug-in hybrid car that it boasted could travel 2000 kilometres on a single charge and tank.
The vast investment in battery manufacturing has reduced costs. According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance, over the past year, the price for lithium iron phosphate battery cells in China dropped by 51 per cent to an average of $US53 ($78) per kilowatt-hour. The average global price of these batteries last year was $US95/kW, BNEF reported.
This is not to suggest that China is an environmental white knight, says Buckley. Alongside its renewable deployment, last year, China was building a unit of coal power every fortnight.
“China is acting out of self-interest,” he says. “It wants the coal to power the EVs so it can ween itself off foreign oil. It wants to dominate future industries and advanced manufacturing. The fact that all this has an environmental benefit is icing on the cake for China.”
Underpinning the Paris Agreement is the notion of “common but differentiated responsibilities”. This wording in the language of the treaty acknowledges that while developed nations, which had dumped the vast bulk of carbon into the atmosphere making themselves rich over the past quarter of a millennium, should rapidly cut their emissions, developing nations had the right to peak later in order to lift their populations out of poverty.
Under the agreement, China promised to have its emissions peak in 2030. It appears to have hit that target six or even seven years ahead of schedule.
To Myllyvirta, this is a critical point. Under the Paris Agreement, each nation must keep updating its targets to make them more ambitious. These are known as “nationally determined contributions” and the next round is due at the start of next year. Given its boom in renewables, China is now in a position to ramp up its future targets, wrote Myllyvirta in an analysis published in Dialogue Earth in June
“The dramatic acceleration in clean energy deployment in 2023 has opened up the possibility of setting more ambitious targets than previously anticipated, both in terms of China’s emissions-peaking timeline and its achievable reductions by 2035.” Should China maintain the trajectory, it would enable emissions reductions of at least 35 per cent from 2023 to 2035.
This would make its goal of reaching net zero by 2060 credible and achievable, writes Myllyvirta. And that would give the world a greater chance of stabilising the climate somewhere near the Paris targets.
Bill Hare, a leading climate scientist and chief executive of Climate Analytics, a nonprofit research and policy organisation, has been watching China closely.
“It’s good news,” he says carefully when asked about the emissions figures. “We are still looking at the numbers from last year, but I think it is happened. If we have peaked in emissions from fossil fuels, and I think we have, this is a historic moment.”
In Hare’s view, the turning point is significant not just for the raw numbers, but because it demonstrates that a generation of difficult diplomacy and politics, of innovation and inventiveness, is starting to pay off in measurable change.
This fact alone should spur even faster global action, says Hare. The cuts are not enough, and they have happened too late, he says, but history will remember this moment.
Hare, who confesses to a cautious sort of optimism, plans to keep watching the data flow in over the coming months. If the trend holds, he plans to crack the champagne by Christmas.
apple.news
Forget $ million billion trillion hundreds for nuclear power. Forget about pumping $ tens of billions into offshore wind farms and large scale solar farms.
Use all that money and get those coal powered stations converted to gas turbines.
Climate change is heading into reverse. Great news!
Evidence is mounting that some time over the past few months, China’s greenhouse gas emissions peaked. If so, it is likely that a global decline has begun.
For months, the reports came in and climate scientists and analysts pored over the data. Something unfamiliar was happening. It looked a little like good news. Perhaps even something of profound historical significance.
Ever since the industrial revolution began in the late 18th century, the amount of planetary warming greenhouse gases humans have been pumping into the atmosphere has grown inexorably, causing temperatures to climb dangerously over the past few decades.
Sure, there has been the odd dip over the years, blips that can be seen on a chart, but these tend only to emphasise some other catastrophe: World War II, the global financial crisis and more recently, the COVID pandemic.
As the global order repaired itself, the trend returned, ever upwards.
In 2019, humans pumped 35 billion tonnes of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. That number fell by a staggering 6 per cent the following year as COVID crunched industrial production and shut economies. At the time, the fall prompted despair in some climate commentators. Is this what it would take to make a dent in emissions? If so, how could such an outcome ever be achieved in a functioning economy?
As the pandemic receded, emissions surged predictably. By the end of 2021, the rebound had bitten. As the global economy restarted, emissions did not just grow; they surged. According to research published in Nature, in 2021 alone, greenhouse gas emissions grew by 4.8 per cent.
Much of this growth could be attributed to the Chinese Communist Party’s determination to return its nation to growth. To end the COVID recession, it kick-started construction of coal-fired power plants and it re-booted its real estate sector, ever hungry for emissions-intensive steel and concrete.
But it is data from the past few months that is intriguing analysts today. The world’s economy is growing. China’s economy is growing. Yet greenhouse gas emissions appear to have peaked.
Some time last year, or perhaps earlier this year, it appears China’s emissions, in particular, reached a high point. If China has peaked, there is good reason to believe global emissions peaked, too. It would mean that some time over the past few months, the stubborn nexus between economic growth and greenhouse gas pollution was snapped, and the 250-year surge in emissions ended.
Lauri Myllyvirta, senior fellow at the Asia Society Policy Institute and lead analyst at the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air, was among the first to go public with an analysis showing that China’s emissions might have peaked.
In November last year, he wrote that despite the post-COVID surge in emissions, China’s massive deployment of wind and solar energy, growth in EVs and an end to a drought that had cut hydroelectricity generation had caused emissions to tumble.
“A 2023 peak in China’s CO2 emissions is possible if the build-out of clean energy sources is kept at the record levels seen last year,” he wrote in an analysis for Carbon Brief based on official figures and commercial data.
Largely as a result of the China green surge, global investment in renewable technology in 2023 outstripped that in fossil fuels for the first time, the International Energy Agency reported.
Seen up close, that “build-out of clean energy” has a tendency to astound Western observers.
Last month, Australia’s Smart Energy Council took a delegation to China to visit renewable factories and the Shanghai New Energy Conference, an event that drew half a million delegates.
The group visited an EV manufacturer and saw two lines of production, each spitting out a completed EV every 36 seconds.
The SEC’s delegation including Tim Buckley, founder of Climate Energy Finance, a renewable energy consultancy, speaks of standing in a solar module manufacturing factory owned by TW Solar and gazing down a long corridor, unable to make out its end in the distance. “I saw a long wall, half a kilometre long, of manufacturing lines and not a worker in sight. It was all robots.”
Former Queensland premier Anastacia Palaszczuk, who now serves as an international ambassador for the SEC, recalls visiting a battery manufacturer that had 21,000 people working in its research and development division alone, up from 16,000 last year.
Buckley says this last point is critical to understanding the high-speed industrial revolution taking place.
Each week in 2023, says Buckley, China installed as much wind and solar infrastructure as Australia does in its best year. But without improvements in batteries, that energy cannot be stored and deployed overnight.
This makes China’s advances in battery technology a crucial next step. In May, Chinese car manufacturer BYD announced a new plug-in hybrid car that it boasted could travel 2000 kilometres on a single charge and tank.
The vast investment in battery manufacturing has reduced costs. According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance, over the past year, the price for lithium iron phosphate battery cells in China dropped by 51 per cent to an average of $US53 ($78) per kilowatt-hour. The average global price of these batteries last year was $US95/kW, BNEF reported.
This is not to suggest that China is an environmental white knight, says Buckley. Alongside its renewable deployment, last year, China was building a unit of coal power every fortnight.
“China is acting out of self-interest,” he says. “It wants the coal to power the EVs so it can ween itself off foreign oil. It wants to dominate future industries and advanced manufacturing. The fact that all this has an environmental benefit is icing on the cake for China.”
Underpinning the Paris Agreement is the notion of “common but differentiated responsibilities”. This wording in the language of the treaty acknowledges that while developed nations, which had dumped the vast bulk of carbon into the atmosphere making themselves rich over the past quarter of a millennium, should rapidly cut their emissions, developing nations had the right to peak later in order to lift their populations out of poverty.
Under the agreement, China promised to have its emissions peak in 2030. It appears to have hit that target six or even seven years ahead of schedule.
To Myllyvirta, this is a critical point. Under the Paris Agreement, each nation must keep updating its targets to make them more ambitious. These are known as “nationally determined contributions” and the next round is due at the start of next year. Given its boom in renewables, China is now in a position to ramp up its future targets, wrote Myllyvirta in an analysis published in Dialogue Earth in June
“The dramatic acceleration in clean energy deployment in 2023 has opened up the possibility of setting more ambitious targets than previously anticipated, both in terms of China’s emissions-peaking timeline and its achievable reductions by 2035.” Should China maintain the trajectory, it would enable emissions reductions of at least 35 per cent from 2023 to 2035.
This would make its goal of reaching net zero by 2060 credible and achievable, writes Myllyvirta. And that would give the world a greater chance of stabilising the climate somewhere near the Paris targets.
Bill Hare, a leading climate scientist and chief executive of Climate Analytics, a nonprofit research and policy organisation, has been watching China closely.
“It’s good news,” he says carefully when asked about the emissions figures. “We are still looking at the numbers from last year, but I think it is happened. If we have peaked in emissions from fossil fuels, and I think we have, this is a historic moment.”
In Hare’s view, the turning point is significant not just for the raw numbers, but because it demonstrates that a generation of difficult diplomacy and politics, of innovation and inventiveness, is starting to pay off in measurable change.
This fact alone should spur even faster global action, says Hare. The cuts are not enough, and they have happened too late, he says, but history will remember this moment.
Hare, who confesses to a cautious sort of optimism, plans to keep watching the data flow in over the coming months. If the trend holds, he plans to crack the champagne by Christmas.
‘It’s good news’: Scientists suspect history about to be made in China — The Age
Evidence is mounting that some time over the past few months, China’s greenhouse gas emissions peaked. If so, it is likely that a global decline has begun.
Forget $ million billion trillion hundreds for nuclear power. Forget about pumping $ tens of billions into offshore wind farms and large scale solar farms.
Use all that money and get those coal powered stations converted to gas turbines.
Climate change is heading into reverse. Great news!
The news that China's emissions actually dropped, I think in 2023, is amazing. This is the sort of thing we need to see more of. I read about it the other day but need to read more to see what is actually going on.
We are a long way from getting emissions down to a level which isn't going to worsen warming but all we have seen for decades is more emissions. We need to start to see emissions reducing.
DS
We are a long way from getting emissions down to a level which isn't going to worsen warming but all we have seen for decades is more emissions. We need to start to see emissions reducing.
DS
Opposition accuses SA Labor of ‘hydrogen fantasy’ as real costs of Whyalla plant rise by $73m
Fortescue’s green hydrogen ambitions have met a premature end, but the state government won’t change its own plans as the Opposition claims the Whyalla plant is $73 million over-budget.
July 18, 2024 7:39 pm
With the collapse of Fortescue Energy’s green hydrogen plans, the Opposition has called South Australia’s own fuel ambitions a “fantasy” for securing the energy grid.
However, the government has brushed aside accusations of a $74m cost blowout for the Whyalla hydrogen plant, arguing the state “should not be afraid of trying new things”.
The attacks come after mining giant Fortescue sacked 700 workers on Wednesday and abandoned its hydrogen production targets amid uncertainty of its allure as an energy source.
Fortescue is one of five major players attached to a yet unbuilt $140 million export hub at Port Bonython, and together, the two projects are pillars of the government’s energy policy.
Energy Minister Tom Koutsantonis said the company has not pulled out of SA and its restructure “doesn’t change what we’re trying to do”.
But Shadow Energy Minister Stephen Patterson has called on the government to “focus on real solutions that will lower energy prices”.
“On its current trajectory, the cost of Peter Malinauskas’ hydrogen fantasy will surge past $700m by 2026 and that’s only if there’s no more delays or increases to staff,” Mr Patterson said.
“There is a reason other governments around the world are leaving hydrogen to the private sector.
It is a huge gamble with taxpayers money for a government to entirely fund unproven technology that won’t lower electricity bills for South Australian households.”
But Mr Koutsantonis said the plant would still cost $593m and the rest accounted for staff and operational costs.
He also said independent modelling suggested the government’s energy policy would bring down prices by 10 per cent from current levels.
“We have an oversupply of renewable energy and the key to cracking the code of decarbonisation has always been storage, so we look at things like battery storage, grid-scale battery storage and hydrogen,” he said.
The nonpartisan Grattan Institute has previously urged “caution” about using hydrogen for long-term energy storage due to questions about its efficiency.
Grattan Institute energy program director Tony Wood said he was not surprised by Fortescue’s announcement and that many green projects were running into cost challenges.
“It’s turning out to be expensive, more so than people may have thought a few years ago, and the extent to which people are willing to pay for it is not as generous as governments may have initially thought,” Mr Wood said.
He believed focusing on green steel and ammonia would have been “a better place to start” to prop up the necessary infrastructure.
However, he said there may yet be a future for hydrogen in the energy mix.
“I think we will get there – manufacturing steel under today’s conditions makes up around six to eight per cent of greenhouse gas emissions, and renewables or hydrogen are the only solutions we have on the table to reduce that.”
The state government is aiming to hit 100 per cent net renewable energy production by 2027.
apple.news
Producing plenty of Daytime re-enable power. But how to store it. Still a big question to cover 24/7 domestic, commercial and industry.
Just have to keep working at it.
Fortescue’s green hydrogen ambitions have met a premature end, but the state government won’t change its own plans as the Opposition claims the Whyalla plant is $73 million over-budget.
July 18, 2024 7:39 pm
With the collapse of Fortescue Energy’s green hydrogen plans, the Opposition has called South Australia’s own fuel ambitions a “fantasy” for securing the energy grid.
However, the government has brushed aside accusations of a $74m cost blowout for the Whyalla hydrogen plant, arguing the state “should not be afraid of trying new things”.
The attacks come after mining giant Fortescue sacked 700 workers on Wednesday and abandoned its hydrogen production targets amid uncertainty of its allure as an energy source.
Fortescue is one of five major players attached to a yet unbuilt $140 million export hub at Port Bonython, and together, the two projects are pillars of the government’s energy policy.
Energy Minister Tom Koutsantonis said the company has not pulled out of SA and its restructure “doesn’t change what we’re trying to do”.
But Shadow Energy Minister Stephen Patterson has called on the government to “focus on real solutions that will lower energy prices”.
“On its current trajectory, the cost of Peter Malinauskas’ hydrogen fantasy will surge past $700m by 2026 and that’s only if there’s no more delays or increases to staff,” Mr Patterson said.
“There is a reason other governments around the world are leaving hydrogen to the private sector.
It is a huge gamble with taxpayers money for a government to entirely fund unproven technology that won’t lower electricity bills for South Australian households.”
But Mr Koutsantonis said the plant would still cost $593m and the rest accounted for staff and operational costs.
He also said independent modelling suggested the government’s energy policy would bring down prices by 10 per cent from current levels.
“We have an oversupply of renewable energy and the key to cracking the code of decarbonisation has always been storage, so we look at things like battery storage, grid-scale battery storage and hydrogen,” he said.
The nonpartisan Grattan Institute has previously urged “caution” about using hydrogen for long-term energy storage due to questions about its efficiency.
Grattan Institute energy program director Tony Wood said he was not surprised by Fortescue’s announcement and that many green projects were running into cost challenges.
“It’s turning out to be expensive, more so than people may have thought a few years ago, and the extent to which people are willing to pay for it is not as generous as governments may have initially thought,” Mr Wood said.
He believed focusing on green steel and ammonia would have been “a better place to start” to prop up the necessary infrastructure.
However, he said there may yet be a future for hydrogen in the energy mix.
“I think we will get there – manufacturing steel under today’s conditions makes up around six to eight per cent of greenhouse gas emissions, and renewables or hydrogen are the only solutions we have on the table to reduce that.”
The state government is aiming to hit 100 per cent net renewable energy production by 2027.
Kouts defends ‘hydrogen fantasy’ cost blowout claims — Adelaide Advertiser
Fortescue’s green hydrogen ambitions have met a premature end, but the state government won’t change its own plans as the Opposition claims the Whyalla plant is $73 million over-budget.
Just have to keep working at it.
Hydrogen is just stupid. The solutions for steel / ammonia and some industrial demand just aren’t cost competitive now and not supported by the market. So any shift will push the manufacturing to folks making electricity with coal or massive socialisation of the cost with government subsidies which is just not sustainable. Green methanol for shipping is backed by IMO mandates which effectively forces the whole industry to shift and will make the price go up to meet the rules as one small place I think it works.
So much more cost effective places to reduce emissions. Demand side stuff.
RE suggestions
Cheap/free public transport. More bus routes to connect people.
Insulation
Heat pumps
tax the *smile* out of AI related energy
Load shifting also critical as this backs out need for peaking/overcapacity
support transition to solar/local storage solutions (ev/house or community batteries) with upfront plan/cost of recycle and end of life built in
Absolutely Minimise need for new grid infrastructure and make as local as possible
So much more cost effective places to reduce emissions. Demand side stuff.
RE suggestions
Cheap/free public transport. More bus routes to connect people.
Insulation
Heat pumps
tax the *smile* out of AI related energy
Load shifting also critical as this backs out need for peaking/overcapacity
support transition to solar/local storage solutions (ev/house or community batteries) with upfront plan/cost of recycle and end of life built in
Absolutely Minimise need for new grid infrastructure and make as local as possible
I’ve just been having a read about the use of biomethane.
Biomethane isn’t the same as biogas.But a cleaner version that can be blended with lpg to make a cleaner gas.
Could this be used in gas turbines?
As an alternative to grid storage batteries to enable a sustainable 24/7 reliable backup to renewables.
Domestic, commercial and industrial energy needs that 24/7 coverage. Could those coal fired turbines be changed over for Gas fired turbines using this technology. Grid infarastructure would hardly need any major expense as it’s insitu.
I don’t know anything about the conversion costs or the production costs but I’ll keep looking into it.
Some information here for those who’d like to know more..
www.repsol.com
www.iea.org
www.europeanbiogas.eu
Biomethane isn’t the same as biogas.But a cleaner version that can be blended with lpg to make a cleaner gas.
Could this be used in gas turbines?
As an alternative to grid storage batteries to enable a sustainable 24/7 reliable backup to renewables.
Domestic, commercial and industrial energy needs that 24/7 coverage. Could those coal fired turbines be changed over for Gas fired turbines using this technology. Grid infarastructure would hardly need any major expense as it’s insitu.
I don’t know anything about the conversion costs or the production costs but I’ll keep looking into it.
Some information here for those who’d like to know more..
What is biomethane and how is it produced? | Repsol
A combustible gas that is produced by "upgrading" biogas. Find out more.
www.repsol.com
An introduction to biogas and biomethane – Outlook for biogas and biomethane: Prospects for organic growth – Analysis - IEA
Outlook for biogas and biomethane: Prospects for organic growth - Analysis and key findings. A report by the International Energy Agency.
www.iea.org
About biogas and biomethane | European Biogas Association
www.europeanbiogas.eu
Biomethane about 40$/GJ minimum to make and centralise - probably a lot more. Current vic spot prices $15/gj. Big cost is moving all the green matter to a place to process it.I’ve just been having a read about the use of biomethane.
Biomethane isn’t the same as biogas.But a cleaner version that can be blended with lpg to make a cleaner gas.
Could this be used in gas turbines?
As an alternative to grid storage batteries to enable a sustainable 24/7 reliable backup to renewables.
Domestic, commercial and industrial energy needs that 24/7 coverage. Could those coal fired turbines be changed over for Gas fired turbines using this technology. Grid infarastructure would hardly need any major expense as it’s insitu.
I don’t know anything about the conversion costs or the production costs but I’ll keep looking into it.
Some information here for those who’d like to know more..
What is biomethane and how is it produced? | Repsol
A combustible gas that is produced by "upgrading" biogas. Find out more.An introduction to biogas and biomethane – Outlook for biogas and biomethane: Prospects for organic growth – Analysis - IEA
Outlook for biogas and biomethane: Prospects for organic growth - Analysis and key findings. A report by the International Energy Agency.About biogas and biomethane | European Biogas Association
Good local solution for Biowaste - ie at source. Probably beats grid gas.
Like most green solutions 3x-4x cost.
And there is no difference - bio methane and what comes into your gas heater through the gas network are chemically identical. One took billions of years to make - the other one is bugs digesting biomatter that just got made (carcasses / plants etc)
In a way fossil fuels are green. It’s all sun based at some stage. Just whether they got put their recently or a long long long time ago.
Bloody amazed that none off the greenie climate warriors haven't been all over the sodium ion ?? battery tech that's being spruiked about lately. Think it was in a Hun article I was reading online a few days ago. Apparently about at the same stage of development and quality as early lithium battery tech but supposedly should be matching the current lithium standard within a few years. Any one got any goss or info about the validity or potential of this stuff
In Vic. that's quite often early morn, mid morn, aft and evening. Why wait a whole year for the climate to change when you can have it all in one day.
