Free agency

[collector]

So I've provided 5 examples of clubs (WCE, Hawthorn, Bulldogs, Saints, Collingwood) that have rebuilt THIS DECADE and have either won a flag or gone very close. That's not a valid argument is it?? An impossible task is it??? Obviously :

That would be two premiership teams out of the five you listed


How many years of priority draft picks etc did it take for the Dogs and Saints before the rose up the ladder? I said any realistic timeframe, I'm not talking about 3-4 years of utter sh!tness before teams rise, I'm talking IMMEDIATELY


As opposed to say a Canterbury-Bankstown, who went from wooden spoon ... to 2nd in the space of a season?


As for me being an imbecile, well I'm not the one getting my panties in a twist railing against a system that will be implemented, regardless of said sooking.


Free Agency (Of sorts) is here. Deal with it and move on.

 

[collector]

I get it. I just don't agree.

Players must be registered with the AFL to be eligible to play in its competition (and remember that the competition is owned by the AFL). A club can employ that person in any capacity, but if they want to play the game, they must be registered as an AFL player. As part of their registration as an AFL player, the person signs that they agree with the rules of the game. Amongst those rules are the conditions relating to the draft and moving between clubs. The players sign that they agree. Registering as an AFL player is entirely their choice. As I said before, the AFL is not stopping them from being employed in any other field or by any football club in another capacity. What they are doing is offering them an opportunity to be a player within the AFL competition. So by signing the registration forms, they cannot then cry "restraint of trade" as they have agreed to the terms prior to accepting their offer of employment.

I strongly urge you to investigate the RL cases.

You are wrong, it's as simple as that.


What you are proposing, is that for a player to have freedom of movement and earnings capacity, that they change careers. An employer cannot force that on an employee.

I would also suggest, that a contract is most likely invalid if it contains conditions that are deemed illegal - ie: Restraint of an employee's earnings capacity.


I ask you this, why do you honestly think the AFL have agreed to such a revolutionary change to their system?

 

[Ridley]

Pretty muc, compare the population of those two states up against the remainder, which is you clearly know ... Is more, then look at the tv ratings for Aussie Rules in the two states, when the Swans/Lions are playing & you pretty much come to a clear realisation ... The people who live in the northern eastern seaboard states, who make up a majority of the population of the country ... don't give a crap about the southern game.


100-150k a week watch the Swans in Sydney on Saturday night footy.


National game my arse. Stop reading the propagandists in the Melbourne media and open your eyes.

I never said it was a national game, I said it was more popular than RL nationally. There is a difference if you can work that out. I notice that whilst rubbishing the ability of AFL to attract attention in NSW and Queensland, you conveniently neglect to mention that RL has a significantly tougher time doing the same thing in the southern states. Much harder in fact. FFS, the Storm can't even rate and they've been in 4 GFs in a row!!!

At least the AFL has teams in the non-heartland; more than be said for RL. Geez the Superleague experiments in Perth and Adelaide went well didn't they? So, you wouldn't happen to live in the northern states?

 

[Baloo]

I'm sitting on the fence. Logically, with a Salary Cap in place, Free Agency won't matter too much. The Cap controls any one team stock piling their list with Elites. It works in the US, NRL and other leagues were a cap is in place. It doesn't work with European Soccer because there is no Salary Cap.

Should the Elite players of the league command a far greater salary than a journeyman ? Why not, it happens in every facet of life. If you work hard and dedicate your life to something, you should be rewarded more for your efforts.

The last time I checked we're not a communist country.

 

[collector]

I never said it was a national game, I said it was more popular than RL nationally.

Ok then, I'll play this game. Justify your claim that a game ignored in the majority states is more popular.

I notice that whilst rubbishing the ability of AFL to attract attention in NSW and Queensland, you conveniently neglect to mention that RL has a significantly tougher time doing the same thing in the southern states. Much harder in fact. FFS, the Storm can't even rate and they've been in 4 GFs in a row!!!

The Storm don't rate because their games are shown in a midnight timeslot when on FTA

You simply cannot compare the Storm against the Swans/Lions because they aren't treated equally. The AFL had the foresight to negotiate certain coverage levels into their agreement, RL didn't.

the Superleague experiments in Perth and Adelaide went well didn't they?

Both were near profitable when killed, and were only removed as part of the compromise to get the number of teams in the competition down to the levels News Ltd wanted.

So, you wouldn't happen to live in the northern states?

Nope, everyday suburban Melbourne.

 

[collector]

I'm sitting on the fence. Logically, with a Salary Cap in place, Free Agency won't matter too much. The Cap controls any one team stock piling their list with Elites. It works in the US, NRL and other leagues were a cap is in place. It doesn't work with European Soccer because there is no Salary Cap.

The only issue will be of course, if the AFL doesn't crack down on third party arrangements.


They need to re-write the rules, so that any future Visy scenarios are counted in the cap.

 

[Azza]

The crowd numbers make it pretty clear that supporter culture is a lot weaker in NRL clubs than AFL. Whether this is due to traditional NSW lack of interest in spectating, the club shuffles around the turn of the century, or free agency is uncertain.

Free agency can't have helped tho.

 

[Baloo]

The only issue will be of course, if the AFL doesn't crack down on third party arrangements.

They need to re-write the rules, so that any future Visy scenarios are counted in the cap.

Yes, agree, I meant to add in that caveat. If the AFL crackdown on Visy deals then it's a level playing field. I'm actually surprised that issue hasn't been raised along with FA

 

[Ridley]

That would be two premiership teams out of the five you listed


How many years of priority draft picks etc did it take for the Dogs and Saints before the rose up the ladder? I said any realistic timeframe, I'm not talking about 3-4 years of utter sh!tness before teams rise, I'm talking IMMEDIATELY


As opposed to say a Canterbury-Bankstown, who went from wooden spoon ... to 2nd in the space of a season?


As for me being an imbecile, well I'm not the one getting my panties in a twist railing against a system that will be implemented, regardless of said sooking.


Free Agency (Of sorts) is here. Deal with it and move on.

Regardless, they were still able to rebuild in a quick time frame. Who says you have to do it in one year. Hawthorn and WCE won flags within 3-5 years of having priority picks. And both were in the finals 2 years after. That's a great effort. And you rubbish my argument due to lack of premierships (2 out of 5) but Canterbury didn't win did they?? They came 2nd didn't they? What's the difference? And how'd they go the following year after? Yep, real sustainable.

The only twisting going on is by you to suit your *smile* arguments. Yep, free agency is here. No doubt. Doesn't mean I, or anyone else, has to like it or agree with it, or be concerned about the future of the RFC along with it.

 

[collector]

Free agency can't have helped tho.

The crowd figures, or lack of have absoloutely nothing to do with Free Agency.

Aussie Rules has always been stronger on this point than RL. Even back to the old days of players being required to live in the district of the teams they played for.


The game has a wonderful attendance culture, that many sports don't have. It's as simple as that.


If you actually compare the average crowds of all sporting leagues world wide, you actually see how amazing the AFL's numbers are given the population of our country - Has nothing to do with the sport being more popular than others, it's simply by and large, attendance at the event has been historically encouraged

 

[collector]

Regardless, they were still able to rebuild in a quick time frame. Who says you have to do it in one year. Hawthorn and WCE won flags within 3-5 years of having priority picks. And both were in the finals 2 years after. That's a great effort.

So 3-4 years of not trying to win games, in order to pick up the best draft picks. This of course is the system you are advocating.

And you rubbish my argument due to lack of premierships (2 out of 5) but Canterbury didn't win did they?? They came 2nd didn't they? What's the difference? And how'd they go the following year after? Yep, real sustainable.

They won the spoon in 2008, finished second in 2009, so yeah I guess they went terribly the year after given the season hasn't started yet

The reason I rubbished the argument is you said "premiers or near enough to". Near enough to is not premiers.

The only twisting going on is by you to suit your *smile* arguments.

Rubbish. The twisting going on is by paranoids like yourself, who want Richmond to be gifted their journey up the ladder by way of early draft picks, rather than the club doing the hard yards and actually improving itself.

But of course, that is the Australian way. Everything for free, nothing worked for.

There is no possible justification for punishing the players, simply because you are fearful our club can't compete in the open market.


& of course you can continue to sook, b!tch, p!ss & moan about the system. For all the effort of your ranting, diddly squat will change though.

 

[Ridley]

Ok then, I'll play this game. Justify your claim that a game ignored in the majority states is more popular.

Easy. AFL has significantly more penetration its home states than RL has in its. AFL has some penetration (it is not totally ignored as you like to think) in northern states. RL has virually none in southern states. RL has to go head to head with Rugby Union in northern states. RU is not a factor in southern states. Finally, the passion for AFL is massively higher in its home states than that of RL in its. You are deluded you think RL is more popular in Australia than AFL.

 

[Azza]

The crowd figures, or lack of have absoloutely nothing to do with Free Agency.

: Glad we've got someone onhand who can speak with such authority. I suppose the higher AFL club membership numbers are also due to encouragement of attendance?

IMHO Free Agency was adopted early in NRL compared to AFL because of a weaker club culture, and has only further weakened that culture.

 

[Ridley]

They won the spoon in 2008, finished second in 2009, so yeah I guess they went terribly the year after given the season hasn't started yet

Ah OK. I thought by 2nd that you meant they played in the GF, which they obviously didn't as Storm beat Parra. So I assumed you meant the year before. So they didn't finish 2nd last year did they? Parra did. No one cares about home and away; it's all about finals.

 

[collector]

: Glad we've got someone onhand who can speak with such authority.

Look at the historical data, don't just go down the road of someone else in this thread of parroting media propganda.

I suppose the higher AFL club membership numbers are also due to encouragement of attendance?

No, it has everything to do with the fact that the AFL is light years ahead in their promotion/encouragement of people to become clubs members.

The NRL has been doing it for 3-4 years...

IMHO Free Agency was adopted early in NRL compared to AFL because of a weaker club culture, and has only further weakened that culture.

LMAO

Where do you people get this *smile*?


Terry Hill was forced to have the High Court of Australia intervene in order to secure a release from the club that drafted him and join the club of his choice.


Free Agency exists in RL thanks to that High Court ruling.

 

[Ridley]

The Storm don't rate because their games are shown in a midnight timeslot when on FTA

You simply cannot compare the Storm against the Swans/Lions because they aren't treated equally. The AFL had the foresight to negotiate certain coverage levels into their agreement, RL didn't.

Mmm. Maybe that's because Channel 9 knows no one will watch because no one cares!!

Do the Swans and Lions have their games shown live or close to live FTA in their home states?

 

[collector]

Ah OK. I thought by 2nd that you meant they played in the GF, which they obviously didn't as Storm beat Parra. So I assumed you meant the year before. So they didn't finish 2nd last year did they? Parra did. No one cares about home and away; it's all about finals.

No, what I said was Canterbury went from wooden spoon to second in a season. Factually correct. That they bombed out in the prelim final, is largely irrelevant.


What I want you to admit, is that Free Agency has NOT resulted in large scale dominance by the richer clubs over the entire competition. Or provide evidence to show that it has. This is your basic claim. Prove it.


Melbourne have played in 4 Grand Finals in a row, for two premierships. Sure. Firstly, they are not one of the richer clubs, secondly, they certainly have not done it by poaching the stars of other clubs. It's virtually the other way around, they raise stars, then watch them walk to other clubs .... & continue to make GF's year in, year out due to the wonderful coaching systems they have in place down here. The prove the exact opposite of what you'd like to claim.

 

[collector]

Mmm. Maybe that's because Channel 9 knows no one will watch because no one cares!!

Do you think Channel 7/10 would show Aussie Rules in a decent timeslot in Sydney if not FORCED to?

Channel 7 nearly didn't get the rights due to their initial inability to do a deal with Fox Sports that would allow them to not get slaughtered in the ratings on Friday nights ...

Do the Swans and Lions have their games shown live or close to live FTA in their home states?

Pretty much, yes. & a very small % of the population tunes in.

Without being able to prove it of course, I am confident the Storm could match the Swans ratings if shown live into Melbourne on Saturday nights.

 

[collector]

Easy. AFL has significantly more penetration its home states than RL has in its. AFL has some penetration (it is not totally ignored as you like to think) in northern states. RL has virually none in southern states. RL has to go head to head with Rugby Union in northern states. RU is not a factor in southern states. Finally, the passion for AFL is massively higher in its home states than that of RL in its. You are deluded you think RL is more popular in Australia than AFL.

All wide reaching statements, with absoloutely zero evidence to support such claims.

I asked you to provide EVIDENCE Aussie Rules is more popular than RL

 

[Disco08]

I guess this is fairly relevant.