Don,t Fly the Flag

[tigersnake]

I've tried rosy. Time and time again over the last 8 years or so. Its pointless.

either a) I am hopeless at presenting evidence and mounting an argument or, b) people don't want to know or change their entreched views. Either way, its a pointless exercise.

 

[Rosy]

No worries ts. I never unbderstood the flak Sam copped for painting himself black when impersonating Winmar. I couldn't see any malice in it at all. To me those opposing it were saying it's a shameful thing to be black when Nicky was obviously proud of his skin colour.

 

[tigersnake]

No worries ts. I never unbderstood the flak Sam copped for painting himself black when impersonating Winmar. I couldn't see any malice in it at all. To me those opposing it were saying it's a shameful thing to be black when Nicky was obviously proud of his skin colour.

There was a stack of stuff written about it at the time rosy by people who do know what they are talking about, if you care to check it out. (I was so angry at the time, I actually tackled Newman on Chapel St when I stumbled across him doing St Talk)

 

[Rosy]

I did a bit of a search and didn't find much. As I said I personally couldn't see any malice in it. I'm not sure who would and wouldn't know what they were talking about. Maybe some of these things are analysed too much. I didn't notice, and can't find, any backlash from Nicky or the aboriginal community at the time. Just from others seeming to make assumptions and speak on their behalf.

 

[Massive Tiger]

No worries ts. I never unbderstood the flak Sam copped for painting himself black when impersonating Winmar. I couldn't see any malice in it at all. To me those opposing it were saying it's a shameful thing to be black when Nicky was obviously proud of his skin colour.

I just thought the issue was that when Nicky showed his chest he was demonstrating his pride in his heritage, whereas when Newman did the blackface skit he was taking the *smile*.

 

[Rosy]

I just thought the issue was that when Nicky showed his chest he was demonstrating his pride in his heritage, whereas when Newman did the blackface skit he was taking the p!ss.

You mean taking the *smile* on Winmar's heritage? If so how so? I watched it again this morning and didn't get that impression at all.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I just thought the issue was that when Nicky showed his chest he was demonstrating his pride in his heritage, whereas when Newman did the blackface skit he was taking the p!ss.

What was your opinion on Greg Ritchie playing Mahatma Cote?

e.g.

[youtube=560,315]lUWEjPXyqcU[/youtube]

 

[Massive Tiger]

I didn't like it. Puerile.

 

[Rosy]

Puerile.

Pretty much like Sam Newman's Winmar skit. Puerile doesn't equate to being racist though.

 

[Massive Tiger]

I suppose it could be considered racist based on making fun of someone based on their race.

 

[Rosy]

I suppose it could be considered racist based on making fun of someone based on their race.

How is an impersonation racially based? Different colour skin, different features etc is fact for all people regardless of race. We're all different. Nicky Winmar was proud of his black skin but it's like you're saying it's something to be ashamed of if you think it's racist to identify the difference. Do you think Winmar is racist?

 

[Massive Tiger]

I'm sorry you can't see the difference.

 

[Rosy]

Explain it then. There's no way Sam made fun of Nicky based on his race as you claim. He did an impersonation of him making fun of him not keeping an appointment. As Nicky proudly pointed out his skin is black. I can't stand Sam Newman's tv persona and I didn't find the skit the least bit amusing but I certainly didn't find it racist.

 

[tigersnake]

Explain it then. There's no way Sam made fun of Nicky based on his race as you claim. He did an impersonation of him making fun of him not keeping an appointment. As Nicky proudly pointed out his skin is black. I can't stand Sam Newman's tv persona and I didn't find the skit the least bit amusing but I certainly didn't find it racist.

It was racist. Nicky didn't show, unreliable, went walkabout. Sam blacks his face, black face, black people are unreliable and go walkabout.

That was what black people said at the time, thats what I saw.

 

[Rosy]

It was racist. Nicky didn't show, unreliable, went walkabout. Sam blacks his face, black face, black people are unreliable and go walkabout.

Which part of it says black people are unreliable and go walkabout?

[youtube=560,315]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSn3fmUm0yQ[/youtube]

 

[tigersnake]

If you can't see that racism is usually more subtle than the actual words people actually say, there's nothing I can do about that.

 

[Rosy]

I find it just as sad that people continually play the racist card.

If Sam pretended to be Dolly Parton in a skit and wore massive boobs and blonde wig would that be sexist or would he just be impersonating her by highlighting the attributes he's obviously proud to be identified by?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

It was racist. Nicky didn't show, unreliable, went walkabout. Sam blacks his face, black face, black people are unreliable and go walkabout.

That was what black people said at the time, thats what I saw.

What was Connick's objection to the Hey Hey skit? That it portrays black people as "musical"?

"They're very musical people, aren't they?"
- Randolph Duke, Trading Places

 

[tigersnake]

I find it just as sad that people continually play the racist card.

If it walks like a duck, and looks like a duck...

I find racism sad. The only way to get rid of it is to highlight it. We have progressed since 99, but a long way to go.

 

[Rosy]

I find racism sad. The only way to get rid of it is to highlight it.

I think it's very sad too. I don't think it helps the cause to read racism into things where it wasn't obviously intended though. I'd accuse Sam of being tactless, unamusing, insensitive, boorish, egotistical and tasteless in that skit but I don't see it as racist.

What would you think if Winmar's opponent raised his own jumper and showed off his white skin?