The whole football dept should have a say on who stays and who goes.The final say should be up to the coach if there is a split within.The only situation where a coach gets his way is when it comes to recycled,s and trades.the claw said:
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CC on his last legs?
- Thread starter Barnzy
- Start date
The decision last year to take Hislop and Thompson with picks in the 3rd and 4th round doesn't look great, as both looked equally slow at their old clubs. The decision to take Mcmahon with our 2nd round pick in 07 was also really poor, as was the decision not to take the max no of rookies available in the same draft.rosy23 said:
Vickery was a gift at 9. Post was a good selection, if a widely predictable one.
Cameron ran Melb recruiting before coming to us. His reputation at this stage of his career is like my bed.
MB78 said:
Looking forward to eating my words, but CC's recruitment is looking more and more like our recruitment of Danny Frawley - picked from the lower echelons mediocrity
Barnzy said:
You've missed my point. The point is at least we are picking up youngsters rather than 26yo's. They have far more chance of improving and providing for the long-term for when we are hopefully competitive again. I wasn't judging on how well Thomson and Hislop will go in the future, although I think Thomson will prove to be a great pickup. As far as I am concerned Nahas is a recycled player. Just because he wasnt an AFL player, he was a mature player when we recruited him and ignored by all AFL clubs. But yes we did only rookie him. I think trading is a necessity at times. I have no problems with trading for 20yo's as long as you are not trading your first couple of rounds and as long as you are picking up draft picks elsehwere maybe through a player trade or two. Adelaide, are not one generally for trading away picks but in 2007 they traded a pick 28 for Brad Symes and Brad Moran for Pick 37 , however they also traded two players for 2nd rounders that year. But speaking of Adelaide, whilst they have remained relatively competitive their last premiership was 11 tears ago.. Maybe you could argue that may have been different if they did at times strategically trade that extra experienced player or two in place of a youngster or two.
TOT70 said:
have to say TOT, you are somewhat changing the subject here, barnzys point is a valid one, we should really have made the call on the older players 2 years ago, when wallace reassessed his 5 year plan and indicated that our list wasn't good enough and we would need at least 7 years to challenge, when deledio got to a mature age. At that point, we should have traded for picks spent the next 2 years topping up via the national draft.
as to your points above, i disagree, how can you say we have had too many coaches coming and going, we have only had 2 coaches and there hasn't been that much change at board/president level in the last 10 years, and all players bar Richo were picked up under those two coaches.. So i struggle to see how bringing what we were doing in say the bartlett era has to do with our current situation. If anything, we went the other way and in order to appear to be seen as a stable club, kept people Frawley,Miller,Wallace on for two long, when we should have just called it and sacked them.. Who cares what kind of club we are seen as.. Stability, and a clear plan, and intestinal fortitude is only good if you have the right plan, and people executing it.. otherwise it is just lunacy and it doesn't help.
and thats just my opinion
Did we have holland? gee i can't remember that... i must be getting oldGoodOne said:
What about Johnson, Brown, Polak, Gaspar, Simmonds, Stafford, Cameron, Broderick(okay stretcing a little with that one) they were all good recycled pickups.
MB78 said:
Melbourne made the finals consistently when he was recruiting manager. He also had a knack for picking for needs quite well. Melbourne's problem in the last 2 years has been the decline in their top echelon but he wasn't the List Mgr.
I think recruiting is a small part of what we have done wrong in the past decade. The major part of our problem has been player development. To continue to see the likes of Fiora, Hall and Tivendale (and more recently, Edwards, Will and McGuane) come back each year with no muscle and physical strength development has been very frustrating.
Like most clubs, we will recycle. Like most, we will have a +-50% strike rate. What we cannot seem to do - and clubs like Sydney and Crows are very good at - is take a half decent player, and turn them into a gun.
I am pleased the focus is shifting to these areas - pretty obvious really in a draft-constrained culture. Neil Craig saw this as a key to success several years ago.
Like most clubs, we will recycle. Like most, we will have a +-50% strike rate. What we cannot seem to do - and clubs like Sydney and Crows are very good at - is take a half decent player, and turn them into a gun.
I am pleased the focus is shifting to these areas - pretty obvious really in a draft-constrained culture. Neil Craig saw this as a key to success several years ago.
Barnzy said:
I think your a bit harsh, laying all the blame at the feet of CC. No doubt he was working to a brief from Wallace and the rest of the footy department based on needs. There is no doubt that Wallace was recruiting with a view to his next contract not the long term future of the footy club, but the indicators are that there is certainly a vastly different strategy in place under Beavis, so lets see how we go this year before we start calling for yet another sacking.
Tha place is just starting to come together, lets not start dismantling it before the foundations have dried.
