CC on his last legs?

[Barnzy]

One would think the person who would have most say come draft day is Francis Jackson followed by the coach.
The only time CC would come into the draft is if a recylced is considered.CC would have to do the sums etc.

“As head of our football department, Craig Cameron will oversee the draft and recruiting process together with Recruiting Manager Francis Jackson,” Wright said.

 

[Barnzy]

I agree in hindsight that trading for Thomson was probably a mistake. Other than that, what real damage was done? North are being congratulated for their nous in taking Anthony at pick 43, but that kid's only a little younger than Thomson. Taking Hislop at 58 also doesn't seem like a massive problem given the general consensus was that he was a first round talent in a strong draft only two years ago. Trying to turn around perceived attitude problems seems a decent risk to take with such a late pick.

The real damage was done in previous years if you ask me.

Thomson and Hislop were a mistake but there was also not cutting an extra 2-3 players and filling those spots with more kids from that draft.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Agree, struggled in his list management role thus far for leysy. Needs to lift, be stronger & show more foresight. Been underwhelming in that role thus far.
& Barnzy is right on Last years draft national draft, it could hold a poor legacy for CC. He does seemed to have improved his thinking this off-season.

There will also be opportunities with the new teams coming in. Hopefully CC has the lateral thinking to take advantage of these.

He looks to have done a better job in his football managers role though. The senior coaching process was thorough & on the face of it the assistants we have lured look OK. However the proof of all that process hasn't even began yet. It will depend on how Hardwick & his staff take the club along. None of us know the results of that process yet.

Good post daisy.
CC has done some good things and some not so good but in his defence he was handed a heck of a task by his predecessor and been working alongside a sultana of a coach. It was never going to turn quickly.
The results of the football review hopefully will start to bear fruit soon but until then the jury is still out for me.

 

[shamekha]

shouldn't you be resting from muckup day Barnzy

 

[Barnzy]

shouldn't you be resting from muckup day Barnzy

Good one, Champ. :

 

[Disco08]

Thomson and Hislop were a mistake but there was also not cutting an extra 2-3 players and filling those spots with more kids from that draft.

Explain to me why Hislop was categorically a mistake at this point in time.

Cutting an extra 2 or 3 kids would have meant using picks 84, 85 and 86. Not usually the best place to find long term talent.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

2 Key words is CC will OVERSEE the recruiting and Draft PROCESS.
Once all that is done its down to Francis and the coach.

 

[Tigers_06]

Where did I say he acted on his own? I said he has most of the say over the draft, which he does.

The point you're missing is that list managers can only act on what the senior coach tells them.

If the senior coach thinks he is in a good position to challenge, remember we finished 9th last year and TW thought we were locked and loaded, he isn't going to cut 8-10 players they might cut 5-6 though. If the senior coach realises that his list isn't going anywhere, like Harvey did at Freo last year and Harwick with us this year, they will more likely than not cut in much bigger numbers.

 

[Barnzy]

Explain to me why Hislop was categorically a mistake at this point in time.

Cutting an extra 2 or 3 kids would have meant using picks 84, 85 and 86. Not usually the best place to find long term talent.

Hislop has poor skills, poor decision making and he just looks like a solid VFL footballer. I may be proven wrong but I doubt it, we have many of his type already on the list - poorly skilled. We're playing him as a forward and he isn't exactly a Cyril Rioli, will needed to reinvent himself as an inside mid with his strong body or he won't make it IMO.

Regarding your comments about the later picks, that draft has proved to run very deep so far. I'm sure we could've found some good young talent to replace JON, Johnson and co. Tim Ruffles, Shane Savage, Rohan Bail, Garlett, Cockie, Picken, Pearce, van Berlo, *smile*, Broughton, etc all went very late in the ND or Rookie Draft.

 

[Rod]

Thomson and Hislop were a mistake but there was also not cutting an extra 2-3 players and filling those spots with more kids from that draft.

We were locked and loaded, remember? Its much easier in retrospect. Wallace would have been very convincing, knowing it was his make or break year.

I'd like to give Thomson and Hislop another year before I pass judgement.

These blokes aren't teenagers but still young enough for me.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Explain to me why Hislop was categorically a mistake at this point in time.

Showed very little IMO and was lucky there are so many others that need to go. Would want his break out year in '10 or will be delisted.

 

[Rod]

Hislop has poor skills, poor decision making and he just looks like a solid VFL footballer. I may be proven wrong but I doubt it, we have many of his type already on the list - poorly skilled. We're playing him as a forward and he isn't exactly a Cyril Rioli, will needed to reinvent himself as an inside mid with his strong body or he won't make it IMO.

Reckon they want Hislop to play a similar role to Max Rooke.

Max looks OK now but there were question marks over his skills in the past.

With Coughlan, Brownie and Johnson gone and Tuck on the outer I think you'll see Hislop and Thomson spend considerable more time in the midfield.

 

[Disco08]

Hislop has poor skills, poor decision making and he just looks like a solid VFL footballer. I may be proven wrong but I doubt it, we have many of his type already on the list - poorly skilled. We're playing him as a forward and he isn't exactly a Cyril Rioli, will needed to reinvent himself as an inside mid with his strong body or he won't make it IMO.

Hislop was an inside midfielder his entire junior career. His skills then were as good as any inside mid.

Regarding your comments about the later picks, that draft has proved to run very deep so far. I'm sure we could've found some good young talent to replace JON, Johnson and co. Tim Ruffles, Shane Savage, Rohan Bail, Garlett, Cockie, Picken, Pearce, van Berlo, Broughton, etc all went very late in the ND or Rookie Draft.

There's no proof at all as to how deep the 08 draft will end up being. Just because a couple of kids have shown glimpses doesn't mean they'll amount to anything long term. Plenty of teams were passing early which might suggest they didn't think much of the depth, including top end teams like Adelaide and the Dogs.

Of the guys you've managed to selectively pick out Ruffles, Savage and Bail were gone by the time we would have been using the picks we'd have gained for Delisting extra players and Cockie, Picken, Van Berlo and Broughton are all older than Hislop so not really "young talent".

 

[Smoking Aces]

I saw the title of this thread and thought *smile* CC is gravely ill. Then I read the content of it and realised it was Barnzy having his usual rant about everything bad about Richmond. :nopity

 

[IanG]

Hislop has poor skills, poor decision making and he just looks like a solid VFL footballer. I may be proven wrong but I doubt it, we have many of his type already on the list - poorly skilled. We're playing him as a forward and he isn't exactly a Cyril Rioli, will needed to reinvent himself as an inside mid with his strong body or he won't make it IMO.

Hisop doesn't have poor skills and we don't want him to be a Rioli, we want him to be Rooke type. He was too slow but that was exacerbated by his injuries.

We were locked and loaded, remember? Its much easier in retrospect. Wallace would have been very convincing, knowing it was his make or break year.

Agreed, I've said this before but Wallace would have had a huge say on the current players at the time of the last draft.

 

[jb03]

Explain to me why Hislop was categorically a mistake at this point in time.

Cutting an extra 2 or 3 kids would have meant using picks 84, 85 and 86. Not usually the best place to find long term talent.

I will. Because he is a lemon. The excuses trotted out on his behalf are embarrasssing.

It is not just CC, Richmond has always failed to grasp the importance of the draft.

And while picks 84,85,86 in all probablity will not be good enough, at least we would be rolling the dice and having a shot. Sticking with a list that you know is not good enough but then fearing to roll the dice because one of the options is to actually get worse seems to be a common thought process among many including the RFC.

Do you stay middle of the road or gamble on winning a flag with a high risk probability of going backwards?

I would rather take the gamble.

 

[Disco08]

I agree, under Miller Richmond fully disrespected the impact the draft system should have on your playing list. Under CC and especially Hardwick, this appears to be something that won't be repeated.

However, it's not just a matter of gambling on winning a flag or going backwards, it's a matter of building your list properly. I agree they were a couple of picks short (passing on 70 and then taking Cousins in the PSD) but I reckon just adding kids for the sake of it isn't the answer either. When you're turning a list over you need to do it over at least 2 or 3 years.

I disagree with you about Hislop, but whatever. Time will tell. I still think taking a risk on him with pick 58 given the talent he showed as a youngster (he was a hardball and clearance machine for Tassie beating plenty of VFL midfielders easily as a 17 year old) was a decent move.

 

[mb64]

Considering he has the majority of his 5 year contract to run I'd suggest not.

Exactly

 

[U2Tigers]

I can see both sides.

But its no point drafting all kids in each and every draft if we can't develop them.

And Development we haven't been successful with - I would go to say its the poorest thing amongst some poor things we do at this club.

 

[Inspector]

I think CC is doing a good job we now have a young & energetic coaching panel of whom all are full time no big egos & all will work on the same page we will have the youngest list by far in the next few years. What the plan is from what I can see is to go young only paying 92% of the cap & as the list grows & improves we will have room in the cap to keep the side together & just because some of the coaching appointments don't have the big names or profiles doesn't mean they are no good might mean they will work harder & go under the radar.