CC on his last legs?

[Rod]

Re: Rookie plan puts Tiger Graham Polak at mercy of draft

Not a fan of midgets who give away a ton of free kicks, can't kick to save themselves, can't make decisions...basically can't do sh!t. Anytime he gets near senior selection I nearly have a heart attack.

Just humour me for a second.

Hypothetically you're in Craig Cameron's job.

You have to make the choice out of who to cull between McMahon and King.

Now the easy answer is both but let's just say you don't have that luxury and can only get rid of one.

I'm curious as to who you rate as the bigger dud?

 

[Barnzy]

Re: Rookie plan puts Tiger Graham Polak at mercy of draft

Just humour me for a second.

Hypothetically you're in Craig Cameron's job.

You have to make the choice out of who to cull between McMahon and King.

Now the easy answer is both but let's just say you don't have that luxury and can only get rid of one.

I'm curious as to who you rate as the bigger dud?

I would keep King in that situation. McMahon is all those attributes I listed but ontop of that he's also soft squib. Looks like both duds will be staying on the list now though thanks to CC/Wallace's incompetence so that is a very hypothetical question.

 

[the claw]

Re: Rookie plan puts Tiger Graham Polak at mercy of draft

The offseason's a bad time for holidays? He was here for trade week, what's the problem? And why do you want to see the draft to judge him? He's the list manager, not the recruiting manager.

hes the genaeral manager of football. all encompassing.

 

[the claw]

Re: Rookie plan puts Tiger Graham Polak at mercy of draft

I'm with Disco on this.

I have been quite negative to the goings on at Richmond, and I believe rightly so.

I had a genuine hatred for Wallace, and did not like the way Greg Miller did his thing on the football side of things. I genuinely was frustrated at the lack of professionalism and direction and to be totally honest, I have seen how a club operates first hand in all facets of operation, then I see the club I love and the way they are going about things, I built up an anger that obviously some tend to do. Also to be even more truthful, I was embarrassed that I got sold on the Wallace appointment. My reasoning was at the time our club was in the dirt and needed as much media and publicity it can get to be around. My thoughts were confirmed when Steven Wright did tell me when he took over, the club was close to death. That is no joke. Anyway back onto Wallace, I was sure from listening to him on 3aw he was the man, and ignored my mates in the industry when they were telling me it was a bad move. I got conned a beauty. So did our great club. I was p!ssed off. Embarrassed and p!ssed off.

This time I am listening to the same sources. The same guys who have more years experience in the industry than I have years on this planet. They are all telling me we have got this one right. They can sense a turn around in all facets. They are saying there is a momentum being built up with our club, it's only a matter of time.

We start with a clean slate. Everyone.

Richard Tambling. Daniel Jackson. Wayne Campbell. Shane Tuck. Jake King. Craig Cameron. Brendan Gale. Ben Cousins. Gary March.

All the people at our club. The slate is clean. There is no reason being negative. Hardwick has just started his job. His direction. We just have to sit back, observe, trust and support, passionately what he and the club are about to do.

That's my thinking anyway.

a question bob. what do those in the industry say to you about craig cameron and his performances at the rabble and at melb.

he is basically the head of the footy dept answerable to no one but the board. if he fails we fail. how yrs of failure can we afford from blokes in these critical positions.

sorry mate but sometimes you just cant wipr the slate clean. it wont matter how good a coach hardwick is if he has people who cant manage a list or recruiters who are poor he will fail.

based on his performance at both richmond and melb i think rightly people are asking is he any good. it is not an unreasonable question i would hope the club is asking the same sort of questions. like dud footballers dud administrators need to be turned over quickly.

let me also say if all hinges on hardwick i have no hesitation in saying we are doomed and have not learnt a thing.

its the same old posters who defend everything the club does at all costs. any thinking person who had a look at what cameron and others has done so far, would ask questions, yet some posters totally ignore what they have done and make excuses and shift blame for decisions these blokes are responsible for.
you would think after being the worst performed club in the country for the last 27 yrs people would be questioning what the club does especially when it appears the same mistakes are being made over and over again.craig camerons record is poor why wouldnt you ask questions.

greg miller lasted so long because those same posters like our supporters refused to hear a bad word about the bloke even though he was failing abysmally. they jumped on the bandwagon in the end though.

bob when they actually show they can do things right and go thru sound processes for all things footy i might show your faith not before. until they do i will rightfully question especially poor track records like camerons.

 

[the claw]

Re: Rookie plan puts Tiger Graham Polak at mercy of draft

hes the genaeral manager of football. all encompassing.

have to add we all know the lack of recruiting and the circumstances with cameron coming to the club of course he will continue to have a big say in recruitment. easy to say hes not the recruitment manager but the way it is hes the one jackson will report to for now.

 

[marsinvenus]

Anyone know what happened with our big review surly CCs position was included in it

 

[the claw]

Anyone know what happened with our big review surly CCs position was included in it

swept under the carpet it seems.

 

[Tiger74]

Anyone know what happened with our big review surly CCs position was included in it

his role was one of the first determined by the review...last year remember

 

[Baloo]

We start with a clean slate. Everyone.

Richard Tambling. Daniel Jackson. Wayne Campbell. Shane Tuck. Jake King. Craig Cameron. Brendan Gale. Ben Cousins. Gary March.

Glad to hear you say that TB, especially about my man Jacko

I'm viewing 2010 in a similar fashion. It all starts again but the difference this time for me is that there is zero tolerance for anyone that failed to deliver under Wallace. This is the fresh start with the right type of coach I strongly believe a lot of our maligned players need to get the best out of themselves.

I'll give last years recruits, and those we grab this year, an extra year but for everyone else currently on the list, this is their last chance. I've been willing to cut a fair bit of slack on many players simply because I believe you perform as well as your leader leads you. Our leader, Wallace, was crap. 2010 will be different, for better or worse.

Oh, that reminds me, could Jacko possibly concurrently hold the most Under-Rated AND most Over-Rated Player on our list titles depending on who you talk too ?

 

[Disco08]

Re: Rookie plan puts Tiger Graham Polak at mercy of draft

a question bob. what do those in the industry say to you about craig cameron and his performances at the rabble and at melb.

he is basically the head of the footy dept answerable to no one but the board. if he fails we fail. how yrs of failure can we afford from blokes in these critical positions.

sorry mate but sometimes you just cant wipr the slate clean. it wont matter how good a coach hardwick is if he has people who cant manage a list or recruiters who are poor he will fail.

based on his performance at both richmond and melb i think rightly people are asking is he any good. it is not an unreasonable question i would hope the club is asking the same sort of questions. like dud footballers dud administrators need to be turned over quickly.

let me also say if all hinges on hardwick i have no hesitation in saying we are doomed and have not learnt a thing.

its the same old posters who defend everything the club does at all costs. any thinking person who had a look at what cameron and others has done so far, would ask questions, yet some posters totally ignore what they have done and make excuses and shift blame for decisions these blokes are responsible for.
you would think after being the worst performed club in the country for the last 27 yrs people would be questioning what the club does especially when it appears the same mistakes are being made over and over again.craig camerons record is poor why wouldnt you ask questions.

greg miller lasted so long because those same posters like our supporters refused to hear a bad word about the bloke even though he was failing abysmally. they jumped on the bandwagon in the end though.

bob when they actually show they can do things right and go thru sound processes for all things footy i might show your faith not before. until they do i will rightfully question especially poor track records like camerons.

I don't understand why you have to make these generalisations all the time. Any time you have people even slightly disagreeing with you you seem to have to make out as if these people are unthinking idiots. Why?

I for one am not saying Cameron has done everything right at all. I think getting Thomson was a mistake once we also picked up Hislop (or vice versa). Giving King a new contract seems like a mistake to me too. Schulz's contract seems like a smart move however given that Port had showed interest previously and his new contract enabled them to trade him to Port down the track. Simmonds staying on also seems strange but everyone can acknowledge we need at least one experienced ruckmen playing for us next year. As I said to Barnzy he also made an obvious effort to address list need on the whole last year. We're also seeing far more resources and structure being given to the recruiting and development departments, something we desperately needed.

So other than these, am I missing something? What other mistakes have been made that have you and Barnzy so keen to see the back of this bloke?

 

[IanG]

He must carry a lot of the blame for Melbourne's fall as he was the one recruiting the future of the club. Although it was after he left Melbourne they hit the bottom of the ladder, he recruited the players the brought them on their knees. Its about 5 to 7 years later when you see the real value of a good recruiter.

You need to read what I said their problem wasn't recruiting per se it was their list management and making sure the list was properly structured. He wasn't List Mgr there, a large part of the list mgt of Melbourne at the time would have been on Neale Daniher and he kept too many older players for too long just like us.

 

[IanG]

Re: Rookie plan puts Tiger Graham Polak at mercy of draft

its the same old posters who defend everything the club does at all costs. any thinking person who had a look at what cameron and others has done so far, would ask questions, yet some posters totally ignore what they have done and make excuses and shift blame for decisions these blokes are responsible for.
you would think after being the worst performed club in the country for the last 27 yrs people would be questioning what the club does especially when it appears the same mistakes are being made over and over again.craig camerons record is poor why wouldnt you ask questions.

You're the one who displays a lack of thinking and more especially barnzy, you both display a reflexive, unthinking negativety towards the club and anyone involved in it where nothing they do is right. IMHO CC is still up in the air in his combination of List Mgr and General Mgr for Football but I'm not going to label him a dud until there is evidence to do so. And despite what you both say there were positives from last years trade and draft period, the world isn't black and white.

 

[shamekha]

i don't think any of us have the RIGHT to say a person is not doing their job unless we are there inside the club and actually know. Melbourne AND Richmond's problems were to do with cash flow. We had none and Melbourne had none and still don't. Its exactly what happened at Fitzroy. Now the important things you gooses have got to get through your thick skulls is that until we got all the off field sorted, enough staff etc we were always on the backfoot. The players we recruited and why we couldn't recruit good players was down to them not wanting to come to he club. We couldn't pay them.

Think about it would you go and work for someone that you thought was broke?

Slowly but surely and this is a positive that TW did was get the club to recognise what was required off field. Unfortunately we still couldn't afford all that was required and couldn't afford to pay the best available until what you see now. We have invested heavily this year in this area. Hopefully and its still a raffle but we have got the correct structures now in place.

And as for that school kid Aaron STFU

And get over your narrow minded views.

i've vented, now i feel better. So much crap from people miles away from where it all goes on, without any real idea of what happens inside a club. it makes me want to

 

[Ian4]

As for CC, I don't think he has set the world on fire. We certainly haven't cut through the list hard enough nor we have done enough in the National draft. Sacakble? Not yet but not doing enough at the minute.

summed it up perfectly imo

It is not just CC, Richmond has always failed to grasp the importance of the draft.

And while picks 84,85,86 in all probablity will not be good enough, at least we would be rolling the dice and having a shot. Sticking with a list that you know is not good enough but then fearing to roll the dice because one of the options is to actually get worse seems to be a common thought process among many including the RFC.

Do you stay middle of the road or gamble on winning a flag with a high risk probability of going backwards?

I would rather take the gamble.

spot on jb

You pick JON as your example and I can't argue with that - hes the single biggest drafting blunder we have made.

i dunno, trading pick 8 for craig biddiscombe was pretty bad

 

[johnson2richo2003]

swept under the carpet it seems.

Really?
So Wallace walked did he?

 

[the claw]

2 Key words is CC will OVERSEE the recruiting and Draft PROCESS.
Once all that is done its down to Francis and the coach.

you talk about processes what processes did the club go thru last yr.but you hit the nail on the head its all about going thru the right processes it always has been.

i had 28 players in the gun last yr the most optimistic of supporters knew that a clean out had to happen and we delist just 5, one of whom we redraft on the rookie list. what a failure what an abysmal farce. its this that the focus should be on. doesnt matter who is there they will get their fair share of picks wrong or make a bad call on keeping a player but if you have sound processes in place you will get the vast majority right.

then to exacerbate the problem we use two picks only on kids trade away our third rounder for a bloke who has done nothing in 4 yrs. we take a similar recycled player with our next pick instead of looking to list needs. and then fail to use pick 70 because the player we wanted and a type we desperately needed went at pick 69. amateur hour in full swing.

we then had the cousins fiasco remember that shambles. we then rookie gourdis a player not good enough for the list proper with glaring deficiencies in his game and we keep silvestor as a rookie as well for no other reason we have so few kpps.
all this and they knew gc17 was coming. we had to go back on our word to a player we pronised to take in the psd as well
a word sums up this fiasco, shambles.

this failure yes failure has now forced us into a spot we should never have been in. forced to clean out the hacks and sponging underperformers in less than the ideal climate and forced to keep players he himself has signed.

we are about to find out if they have established any processes to go thru im not holding my breath not if past performance is anything to go by.

but i suppose we should all be like disco only focus on the now and what hes done supposedly well and going to do it seems disco rates the admins the same way he rates the players.

 

[Disco08]

What a ridiculous thing to say. My last post went through the things I thought he'd done well and thing's he'd stuffed up on. Is it possible to actually discuss anything with you without these childish little jibs?

 

[the claw]

Not really, the name Greg Miller ring a bell?

As for CC, I don't think he has set the world on fire. We certainly haven't cut through the list hard enough nor we have done enough in the National draft. Sacakble? Not yet but not doing enough at the minute.

how about greg beck smart from freo is still there i think sheesh one only has to stop and think.

and thats it in a nut shell basically what barnzy said and here people are putting their heads in the sand defending poor performance.

barnzys question is simple was useing just 2 nd picks acceptable delisting so few was that acceptable who he signed or didnt sign are a side issue what process did he go thru last with rebuilding the list in mind. there wasnt one it was made up as we went.

 

[the claw]

Is there anyone at Richmond that you are a fan of?

I seem to recall that last year Richmond drafted Vickery, Post, Andrew Browne and Gilligan. In addition, Trent Cotchin is a similar age to these players and is actually younger than Post. That looks like five teenagers to me. Rance only turned 20 a few days ago by the way.

There is more than one way to get players onto a list, the National draft is one of four instruments that are available to recruiters for advancing their lists. We should look past the simplistic mantra of: "They only used two picks on kids in the National Draft, what a disaster!"

Once the rookie draft is over this year, there will be enough players who are still to be embarassed by their mates at their 21st to please everyone, except maybe those of us who want to see a few wins sometime soon.

By the way, there will be some clubs who will take just 1 or 2 18 year-olds in the National Draft this year.

Teenagers are way over-rated. All they are good at is muck-up day, stirring each other on Facebook all night, butchering the English language by adopting Americanisms like "way over-rated" and cracking the sads when their parents tell them off.

this post totally ignores the fact that a massive clean out had to happen. every one knew this everyone except the man whos job it was to make it happen it seems.

 

[the claw]

Considering he has the majority of his 5 year contract to run I'd suggest not.

did he get 5 yrs unbelievable if true.