Caro [Merged]

[Tigers of Old]

The hilarious thing is, she has the title of Chief Football Writer at The Age.
She doesn't write about football, she writes about misdemeanors, scandal & anything else that is grubby. To balance it all, she writes the occasional feel good story like the Hall of Fame or a players testimonial.
I question her football knowledge. I think she also does, I say this due to as soon as footy classifieds on 9 start talking football she becomes an absolute mute. The panel know not to ask her opinion as she doesn't want to answer for fear of making a fool of herself, either that or it is a directive from above, probably for the same reason.

Loved it a couple of weeks ago when Grant Thomas (former everything at a footy club) gave his view on how the Aka thing would affect a football club, Caro said Grant you're wrong, you don't get it. Geez, a guy who has been a player, coach, board member & every thing in between doesn't get it but she who is as only as close as her anonymous sources does. Sorry Caro, what makes you an expert?

Then a few months back asked B.Gale about the Cuz incident. He answered it categorically twice for her, she then sighed & told him that he wasn't correct, nicely calling him a liar. Like a little kid, with her loaded question thinking she would get the answer she wanted & then when she didn't get it, crossed her arms, stamped her feet & cracked the poo-poos.

Football journalism would be better off without her types.

Good post.
Can't say I'm a fan of Caro's work but there are plenty of male journalists in the industry equally as bad if not worse so not really sure why she gets singled out so much.
This thread was really just about momentai championing his Cuz cauz.

 

[momentai]

Re: Caro injured?

As far as this thread goes I certainly agree.

You might not like the answers but dont shoot the messenger.

 

[momentai]

Good post.
Can't say I'm a fan of Caro's work but there are plenty of male journalists in the industry equally as bad if not worse so not really sure why she gets singled out so much.
This thread was really just about momentai championing his Cuz cauz.

I have to disagree. At least the part I began was about the failure of Caro to get over her prejudice concerning Ben. Like others ToO she has allowed that prejudice to compromise her judgement.

Shmooze over it if you will but it is time that the media and others had a good look at what has happened with Bens life since he joined the RFC and gave to both the credit they deserve.

Shlt. I know you lived for many years in Thailand. How many young people did you see take major steps towards recovery from amphetamine addiction, during that time?

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Caroline is a borderline joke.

That's your version of events. The RFC obviously thought it was pretty disappointing considering they suspended 3 of our players, one of them for 8 weeks. That was majorly disappointing as far as I'm concerned.

Agreed rosy. Certainly from a Richmond perspective anyway.
Connors was showing real promise before this incident so that he was suspended for 8 games was extremely disappointing.
Hopefully he particularly will have learnt from this and goes on with it from here because if he gets his *smile* together I see him as a key in our future plans.
So whilst it was disappointing Hardwick sent a very strong message to the playing group with that suspension & hopefully it helps change the culture at Richmond. I think Dimma's gained plenty of respect in a short space of time.

 

[momentai]

Re: Caroline is a borderline joke.

Agreed rosy. Certainly from a Richmond perspective anyway.
Connors was showing real promise before this incident so that he was suspended for 8 games was extremely disappointing.
Hopefully he particularly will have learnt from this and goes on with it from here because if he gets his sh!t together I see him as a key in our future plans.
So whilst it was disappointing Hardwick sent a very strong message to the playing group with that suspension & hopefully it helps change the culture at Richmond. I think Dimma's gained plenty of respect in a short space of time.

Connors evidently has had an alcohol problem in the past. His behavior however hasn't landed him in court for public drunkeness assault etc.

Look at players from Calton and Collingwood in particular. Far worse behavour has led to a tap on the wrist.

Don't worry about Dan, largely thanks to Luke and Ben.

A bit like the recent TV ad campaign really...

 

[RFC not KFC]

Re: Caro injured?

Former players are just opinion writers. Qualified journalists are usually held to a higher ethical standard and responsibility because they are qualified and usually members of professional associations. The qualification would usually cover their ethical responsibilities and the professional associations would have ethical standards that members are required to adhere to.

What is not true?

"qualifed journalists" - Is Caro qualified? If so what is her qualification?
"usually held to" - infers there is a serious ramification. What are these ramifications?
"higher ethical standard" - than which other ethical standard. Are there degrees of ethics?
"responsibilty" - responsible for what?
"professional associations" - like the Alliance organisation you posted a link to? A professional organisation that I can sign up to if I'm willing to hand over the cash? 24,000 members - gee 1 in every 932 people in Australia are journalists. That's credibility.
"members are required to adhere to" - or what?

Other than those parts it seemed perfectly true.

 

[mb64]

Re: Caro injured?

She gets an above average share simply because she is worse than the average.

Exactly

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

Re: Caro injured?

What is not true?

"professional associations" - like the Alliance organisation you posted a link to? A professional organisation that I can sign up to if I'm willing to hand over the cash? 24,000 members - gee 1 in every 932 people in Australia are journalists. That's credibility.

No, it just reflects your focus on sniping and 'point scoring'. If you had taken two seconds to check out the website linked to you would discover:

The Alliance is the union and professional organisation which covers everyone in the media, entertainment, sports and arts industries. Our 22,000 members include people working in TV, radio, theatre & film, entertainment venues, recreation grounds, journalists, actors, dancers, sportspeople, cartoonists, photographers, orchestral & opera performers as well as people working in public relations, advertising, book publishing & website production ...in fact everyone who works in the industries that inform or entertain Australians. The Alliance was created in 1992 through the merging of the unions covering actors, journalists and entertainment industry employees: Actors Equity (AE) The Australian Journalists Association (AJA) The Australian Theatrical & Amusement Employees Association (ATAEA) Since amalgamation, the Symphony Orchestra Musicians Association (SOMA) & the NSW Artworkers Union have joined the Alliance, a Professional Sports Branch has been created & the Screen Technicians Association of Australia (STAA) reconstituted itself under the Alliance banner.

So, 1 in 932 Australians are in the media, entertainment, sports and arts industries. Credible enough?

What is not true?

"members are required to adhere to" - or what?

Or they face a number of sanctions. These include:
* censure or rebuke the journalist;
* fine the journalist up to $1000 for each offence;
* expel the journalist from membership of the Alliance. Information regarding complaints about journalists is published and distributed to journalists members on a yearly basis.

As for your misguided view on ethics, in brief, yes there are different ethical standards that people adhere to. Depending on the professional association they are a member of they are expected in behave and report in a clearly specified manner, that is "higher" than a non-professional. Why this shocks you is surprising as it is not unusual in most professional associations.

 

[IanG]

Re: Caro injured?

What is not true?

"qualifed journalists" - Is Caro qualified? If so what is her qualification?

There are journalism degrees, heck La Trobe University has just started a sports journalism degree. I don't know what Caro's actual degree is but given her experience I would assume she would have a degree. Here is a profile:
http://www.womenaustralia.info/exhib/cal/wilson.html

"usually held to" - infers there is a serious ramification. What are these ramifications?
"higher ethical standard" - than which other ethical standard. Are there degrees of ethics?

Of course there are. Opinion writers can be dismissed as just being an opinion not rooted in fact. Journalists, if you look beyond the current muckraking abyss, are supposed to report honestly and truthfully because they are regarded as an essential element of society in terms of keeping those in power honest.

"responsibilty" - responsible for what?

I didn't quote that website but here's a link about the Australian Journalism Association Code of Ethics:
http://www.australian-news.com.au/codethics.htm

To quote it: "Respect for truth and the public's right to information are fundamental principles of journalism. Journalists describe society to itself. They convey information, ideas and opinions, a privileged role. They search, disclose, record, question, entertain, suggest and remember. They inform citizens and animate democracy. They give a practical form to freedom of expression. Many journalists work in private enterprise, but all have these public responsibilities."

"professional associations" - like the Alliance organisation you posted a link to? A professional organisation that I can sign up to if I'm willing to hand over the cash? 24,000 members - gee 1 in every 932 people in Australia are journalists. That's credibility.
"members are required to adhere to" - or what?

See the above link, and I see the sanctions have already been referred to by panthera.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Caroline is a borderline joke.

Don't get yourself worked up there Rosy.

That is a very condescending comment considering my post showed no signs of worked uppedness.

The fact that players were suspended, Dan for 8 matches, doesnt make their performance worse than players at other other clubs who typically understate the significance of their (players) conduct and impose light penalties. Collingwood and Carlton are prime examples. What did Didac do for conduct with that Hudson, that led directly to fatal city shootings?

The RFC and Ben Gale are trying to put their 'line in the sand.' OK but no way can the penalties imposed by the RFC be used to compare the degree of wrong doing of our players with players from other clubs. Fev also comes to mind for very public drunken and criminal behaviour over many years.

I'm not in a position to answer the question about Didak. That was subject to a legal investigation and it's not appropriate to speculate about it.

I'm not sure anyone was comparing the degrees of wrongdoing. I found our players being suspended, and the behaviour and situation that led to it, very disappointing. The club also was obviously extremely disappointed.

My point was about Ben Cousins. He and the RFC are to be congratulated on how far they have come. Instead the media and some of our strongest supporters can not see past their prejudice.

Judge it on it's merits. It's great Ben has come a long way and plenty of media output has acknowledged that. That doesn't excuse his actions that led to his suspension or the fact he showed up in poor condition and having his attitude questioned at the start of the season.

To me number one by a long margin is the failure of the AFL to monitor the TPP and the manner in which our so called 'even playing ground' has been compromised by third party payments.

That's certainly up there imo too.

Number two is the way the introduction of GC and WS has been used to deny RFC its right to much needed support. Add in the degree to which these clubs are being advantaged by AFL rulings and the conflict of interest that has been created. Money to Hunt and Folau without equivalent payments to other clubs is a further issue.

I don't like the situation but how has it been used to deny us our right to much needed support? We knew the rules going into the season. The time to question was before it was set in stone. If we'd performed better this year it wouldn't even have been an issue. I wish more clubs dug in about the situation when it was first announced but it's a bit late to cry foul now.

Three is the failure of the AFL to address ongoing concerns about the hardness of Etihad and the consequences for players.

I don't know the facts in regard to hardness of the surface. There are concerns about the surface moving which I think was the case with a recent injury. When they remove the turf at the G it's hard to salvage it because the roots have grown and meshed in the ground. They can virtually salvage all of the Dump turf because of the lack of root stabilisation. I think it needs monitoring but I'm not sure of the consequences of the hardness of the surface to player this year. Do you have any stats on injuries caused by harness?

Four is the failure we as a club have had in giving the arse to the RCC from punt road thereby reducing our ability to take out the centre turf and properly prepare the ground for footy use.

RCC are the leaseholders so how can we give them the arse?

Last but not least is the failure of the footy media to recognize the achievement of Ben Cousins and RFC'S contribution to that achievement.

The above has been acknowledged in the media. Interesting you find it more disappointing than the powers to be at our club, armed with more knowledge of the incident than we'll ever know, suspending 3 of our players for a total of 10 games. It seems ToO is spot on in regard to your original post being more to champion Cuz's cause than anything else.

 

[RFC not KFC]

I'll let the 2 journalists continue their defence of what they do and move on to something more interesting.
Maybe I'll watch Media Watch.

 

[momentai]

Re: Caroline is a borderline joke.

That is a very condescending comment considering my post showed no signs of worked uppedness.

I'm not in a position to answer the question about Didak. That was subject to a legal investigation and it's not appropriate to speculate about it.

I'm not sure anyone was comparing the degrees of wrongdoing. I found our players being suspended, and the behaviour and situation that led to it, very disappointing. The club also was obviously extremely disappointed.

Judge it on it's merits. It's great Ben has come a long way and plenty of media output has acknowledged that. That doesn't excuse his actions that led to his suspension or the fact he showed up in poor condition and having his attitude questioned at the start of the season.

That's certainly up there imo too.

I don't like the situation but how has it been used to deny us our right to much needed support? We knew the rules going into the season. The time to question was before it was set in stone. If we'd performed better this year it wouldn't even have been an issue. I wish more clubs dug in about the situation when it was first announced but it's a bit late to cry foul now.

I don't know the facts in regard to hardness of the surface. There are concerns about the surface moving which I think was the case with a recent injury. When they remove the turf at the G it's hard to salvage it because the roots have grown and meshed in the ground. They can virtually salvage all of the Dump turf because of the lack of root stabilisation. I think it needs monitoring but I'm not sure of the consequences of the hardness of the surface to player this year. Do you have any stats on injuries caused by harness?

RCC are the leaseholders so how can we give them the arse?

The above has been acknowledged in the media. Interesting you find it more disappointing than the powers to be at our club, armed with more knowledge of the incident than we'll ever know, suspending 3 of our players for a total of 10 games. It seems ToO is spot on in regard to your original post being more to champion Cuz's cause than anything else.

Not condescending but I guess you are more familiar with your responses than the rest of us.

As for your views on Ben I just havn't seen the pro Ben RFC articles that you claim are out there. I am not looking for the go forward 1 " and back a mile such as that in your post above but rather articles that talk about his progress as an addict and give due credit to both Ben and the RFC for the efforts that have been made.

Perhaps you could reciprocate and point us to your favourite 5.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Caroline is a borderline joke.

Perhaps you could reciprocate and point us to your favourite 5.

Favourite 5 whats?

 

[tommystigers]

My 5

1. Refusal by the AFL to amend it's self vaunted "succesful" drug policy. It is as transparent as a block of concrete. The Cousins fiasco is a blight on a hypocritical administration. Rumours abound of individuals laughing in the face of the AFL and it's inhouse policing.
2. A rigged fixture each and every year.
3. "Alleged" criminal behaviour allowed to go unpunished, while railroading one high profile player for "bringing the game into disrepute".
4. Imposing sanctions on players and coaches who attempt to speak the truth about important issues affecting the game eg. administration errors and inadequecies and umpiring.
5. A totally corrupt tribunal system that imposes harsh penalties on players form lesser clubs and allowing others to walk free.

The AFL disgust me. My 2 cents.

 

[Phar Ace]

I'll let the 2 journalists continue their defence of what they do and move on to something more interesting.
Maybe I'll watch Media Watch.

Thank goodness for that ;D

 

[RFC not KFC]

Thank goodness for that ;D

I've been online and purchased myself a degree in journalism and ethics. Guess that means I'm now qualified to re-enter the debate. :-X

 

[mb64]

I've been online and purchased myself a degree in journalism and ethics. Guess that means I'm now qualified to re-enter the debate. :-X

Sure are

 

[momentai]

Re: Caroline is a borderline joke.

It's great Ben has come a long way and plenty of media output has acknowledged that.

Rosy your favourite instances of pro Ben/RFC media reports dealing with how both have worked to overcome Bens addiction.
As I said I havn't seen any that have dealt with the issue in any depth or indeed any reference to Bens achievement which hasn't been coupled with bloody minded nastiness and negativity.

As I think I have said both Ben and the RFC have worked hard enough to deserve better.

 

[Cutterst]

As I think I have said I think both Ben and the RFC both have worked hard enough to deserve better.

Agree - to me, there seens to be snide references to things that have never been substantiated or have been denied by Ben and Richmond eg spoken to about drinking.

 

[Dusty]

Totally agree with you momentai! I have read so much about Ben and Caro in this and others forums, some of the stuff written is unbelievable! This is my rant for anyone interested.

Well known that Ben is on a different contract to other AFL players ” a one-chance contract”

Only details made public were three weekly drug test- meetings with AFL doctors- ongoing drug rehab /counseling.

Any issues with Ben re drinking/ his health would be addressed by his doctors / counselor/AFL. If anyone one at Richmond would “speak” to Ben about his drinking than they would have to speak to Richo, who smoked and liked to drink a lot (often seen at Love Machine after games until early hours of the morning and others, in group sessions as all clubs do.
Ben has admitted that he drinks. I am sure he has had some “big nights” like many other AFL players. Ben is under close scrutiny from AFL/Media. He would never have been offered another contract last year if had breached his contract! Or there were concerns about his lifestyle.

Rosy - do you know for a fact he showed up in poor condition had and had his attitude questioned at the start of the season or because that is what Caro wrote?

Because on 3aw when Brendon Gale was questioned his reply was Ben had some issues before Xmas “the past 2 yrs caught up with him” What would he mean by that? Can you imagine what the past 2 yrs have done to his family, friends. He destroyed relationships/ lost a lot of money. His ex girlfriend of 13 yrs became engaged to a friend of his before Xmas. On reflection of the past 2 yrs, I can understand where Ben’s head was at.

When Hardwick was asked the same question his reply was that Ben had things on his mind and the coaches that worked with him and “got him back up.” (I’m trying to find a photo of Ben and Chris Newman working out in the gym on their first day back in Jan. it was on 7 news and in HS) No way could anyone say Ben was in poor condition!)

That is why I am so proud of the RFC! Ben was in real danger of a relapse in that period. However, our coaches, our doctor, Gale , March, good people at the club, us the supporters, have given this human being the will to fight for his life and enjoy his football, which it seems may have been lost for a short time.

As for Caro, to feed of someone’s vulnerability and the source with in the club that feeds her, I cannot express my feelings about them on this forum.