2024 - List Management

[Aegean Tiger]

Ok will go somewhat against the prevailing flow. IMO a scorched earth approach to list management is reactionary, lacks nuance and vision. There, I said it!

I’ll never ever be in favour of moving on proven AFL quality footballers, especially our premiership heroes, for speculative draft picks. UNLESS there is a strong and understandable desire for them to move in the first place. Perhaps punting Otto in 2004 has burnt too deeply. Otherwise we risk destroying the fabric of the club.

I first posted on this forum in 2004, and I remember the intoxicating effect the 5 picks in the first 20 had on all of us…! Yes we are a better club and the science has improved but there are still many unknowns associated with players coming through the young talent pathways.

We already have a strong draft hand this yr. Package picks to improve it if we can. Clearly the rational behind some of the decisions to downgrade picks last yr. Maximise the return if a player does express a desire to leave.

Most importantly, punt the kids that have been in the system for yrs and still can’t dominate games in the magoos. Clear sign they are not AFL quality.

 

[mrposhman]

Ok will go somewhat against the prevailing flow. IMO a scorched earth approach to list management is reactionary, lacks nuance and vision. There, I said it!

I’ll never ever be in favour of moving on proven AFL quality footballers, especially our premiership heroes, for speculative draft picks. UNLESS there is a strong and understandable desire for them to move in the first place. Perhaps punting Otto in 2004 has burnt too deeply. Otherwise we risk destroying the fabric of the club.

I first posted on this forum in 2004, and I remember the intoxicating effect the 5 picks in the first 20 had on all of us…! Yes we are a better club and the science has improved but there are still many unknowns associated with players coming through the young talent pathways.

We already have a strong draft hand this yr. Package picks to improve it if we can. Clearly the rational behind some of the decisions to downgrade picks last yr. Maximise the return if a player does express a desire to leave.

Most importantly, punt the kids that have been in the system for yrs and still can’t dominate games in the magoos. Clear sign they are not AFL quality.

I definitely agree with you. I posted previously if anyone could post an example of a nuclear approach that some are calling for has ever worked before, no-one has posted anything. More likely, we would go back to where Gand GWS were when they entered the comp, they would be a fun few years coming up wouldn't they!!

Our list isn't actually as bad as everyone says, we have a strong core in the bracket, some kids that have shown something this year (can at least be some of the role players that we need), but we are seriously lacking in star power. I've shown on another thread that if Bakes leaves (and I think he will), we can still get 4 picks inside 21 in this draft. Thats a good start to the rebuild (that was with 2 in the 1st 6).

Plus Carter says we have an 18th list. Had we not had injuries this year, there is no way we were finishing 18th. Have Gibcus, Lynch, TT, Hopper fit for pretty much all games and there is no way we were falling that far down the ladder. Remember with close to our full strength team we beat Sydney this year, our season was great on that day, but also fell away on the same day with injuries coming in that game.

 

[Baron Samedi]

a nuclear approach that some are calling for

this is where your argument falls over like a flaccid rats tossbag before it has even begun

trading a few tradeables for list growth is not a "nuclear" option, it is simply smart management

 

[seven]

Except Hawthorn shows the draft is not the only answer. 8 of their 23 on the weekend started at other clubs.

The draft is not the only answer. It never has been and it never will be.

What is that saying, Draft the best players you can and trade for what you need.

 

[mrposhman]

this is where your argument falls over like a flaccid rats tossbag before it has even begun

trading a few tradeables for list growth is not a "nuclear" option, it is simply smart management

You want to trade Bakes, Rioli and Bolton who would all be within our top 5 players I'd hazard a guess with Rioli and Bolton further up.

I'd say trading out 3 of your best 5 players, all within their prime ages as a pretty nuclear option.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Our list isn't actually as bad as everyone says

posh you're faith in our list would see us consigned to years of wilderness

it needs re-stumping and that means temporary loss of list balance as we expand our pool of GOOD kids

then we add through FA and trades as necessary

the club already showed us the blueprint when we added Nank Caddy and Meatball in 2017

 

[Baron Samedi]

You want to trade Bakes, Rioli and Bolton who would all be within our top 5 players I'd hazard a guess with Rioli and Bolton further up.

I'd say trading out 3 of your best 5 players, all within their prime ages as a pretty nuclear option.

baker top five?

what are you smoking?

gets more overrated by the week

he is a small player with all the disadvantages that come with that. he is skillful but not clean enough often enough, sometimes due to his size.

will never be more valuable than he is now. you just sense WC will be silly for him

as for Bolton, i'd trade Bolton for the right picks in a heartbeat. I'd expect Freo to get creative with a couple of high picks.

rioli I'd ideally keep for his excellent leadership and consistency. but if GC get real silly, which they are always capable of, I'd probably bite.

 

[Aegean Tiger]

I definitely agree with you. I posted previously if anyone could post an example of a nuclear approach that some are calling for has ever worked before, no-one has posted anything. More likely, we would go back to where Gand GWS were when they entered the comp, they would be a fun few years coming up wouldn't they!!

Our list isn't actually as bad as everyone says, we have a strong core in the bracket, some kids that have shown something this year (can at least be some of the role players that we need), but we are seriously lacking in star power. I've shown on another thread that if Bakes leaves (and I think he will), we can still get 4 picks inside 21 in this draft. Thats a good start to the rebuild (that was with 2 in the 1st 6).

Plus Carter says we have an 18th list. Had we not had injuries this year, there is no way we were finishing 18th. Have Gibcus, Lynch, TT, Hopper fit for pretty much all games and there is no way we were falling that far down the ladder. Remember with close to our full strength team we beat Sydney this year, our season was great on that day, but also fell away on the same day with injuries coming in that game.

Yes Posh. Totally! Always wary of those with extreme views. Reckon the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Plus Carter says we have an 18th list.

the inconventient truth for folks like you is that even if we had a healthy list this year we'd be bottom six. absolutely guaranteed. we're cooked.

answer me this Posh - who are our bona fide kids apart from Gibcus?

 

[Baron Samedi]

Yes Posh. Totally! Always wary of those with extreme views. Reckon the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

no, the trade options put forward are not extreme in the slightest.

what's extreme is your far-right evangelical conservatism. the vatican would be proud of some of the 'steady as she goes' nuggets of wisdom flying around.

yep, steady as she goes.

steady as she goes for a team that finished 18th is to continue finishing 18th lol

 

[Aegean Tiger]

trading a few tradeables for list growth is not a "nuclear" option, it is simply smart management

It’s been variously suggested that we punt Shorty, Bakes, Bolts, Tommy and Daniel (with MJ as a package deal). Now Bas, reckon that can be considered “nuclear” in anyone’s language.

 

[yo_eddy]

You want to trade Bakes, Rioli and Bolton who would all be within our top 5 players I'd hazard a guess with Rioli and Bolton further up.

I'd say trading out 3 of your best 5 players, all within their prime ages as a pretty nuclear option.

Indeed Baker and Bolton are the only two Tigers ranked ’elite’ by Champion Data this year.

 

[Baron Samedi]

It’s been variously suggested that we punt Shorty, Bakes, Bolts, Tommy and Daniel (with MJ as a package deal). Now Bas, reckon that can be considered “nuclear” in anyone’s language.

who signed off on that, i probably wouldn't go all five, just baker and bolton as a priority duo

graham can go too

 

[Aegean Tiger]

what's extreme is your far-right evangelical conservatism. the vatican would be proud of some of the 'steady as she goes' nuggets of wisdom flying around.

Centre left actually.

 

[Aegean Tiger]

who signed off on that, i probably wouldn't go all five, just baker and bolton as a priority duo

graham can go too

Knew I forgot at least one other. That has been the talk around the traps.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Centre left actually.

me too!

 

[Aegean Tiger]

answer me this Posh - who are our bona fide kids apart from Gibcus?

Crux of the issue for me. Keep the bona fides and punt the trash.

 

[mrposhman]

the inconventient truth for folks like you is that even if we had a healthy list this year we'd be bottom six. absolutely guaranteed. we're cooked.

answer me this Posh - who are our bona fide kids apart from Gibcus?

I think likelihood we would have been somewhere from 9th-13th.

You already know the answer to your question, its almost like you are fishing for something, but what you seem to forget is WE HAVEN'T HAD THE PICKS TO TAKE GUNS. Not sure why this is so hard to understand, I know you will come back with, well lets take a whole bunch, like 8 of the top 20 this year, but look back at previous premiership teams, how many have been built in this way, the answer is pretty much going to be none. You are almost following the blueprint of a brand new startup-, see how well that for GC and GWS? How long do you want us to be in the wilderness for.

If you want to look at clubs that do rebuild on the fly AND importantly keep that winning mentality, take a look at Geelong and the Hawks, along with us and Brisbane, the 4 most successful teams of this century. You seem to think a premiership is purely based around talent, on that basis, North should be premiership favourites with all those high draft picks they've taken. Pretty much anyone that plays in the AFL is talented, its whats between their heads that makes them champions and building that winning mentality is a big part of that. Surrendering 3-4 years of their career to lose on a weekly basis doesn't teach them to be champions, it teaches them to be losers.

 

[mrposhman]

Crux of the issue for me. Keep the bona fides and punt the trash.

Yep agree, its how long we hold onto our clear duds rather than punting our best players that will determine how quickly we can rebound into another challenging force.

 

[bricci]

I would like you to sell my old Commodore.

What year is it?