2024 - List Management

[achillesjones]

We just don't value small forwards.

 

[Tigerbob]

We just don't value small forwards.

There’s a few in this draft that we should be targeting.

 

[achillesjones]

There’s a few in this draft that we should be targeting.

They are a species all of their own. Quick reflexes, speed off the mark, good vision and creative. Deadly accurate.

And on field swagger.
Akermanis, Stevie J, Tiprat, Cyril...
Eddie Betts seemed to have it all. One of my all time faves. (And a beautiful person.)

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

If we finish last next year and clubs come for Balta,
We have to consider doing a Frawley/McKay and letting him go.


Pick 1 & 2.

 

[The_General]

There’s a few in this draft that we should be targeting.

Welcome back TB.

 

[ceehook2]

I disagree entirely.
Hawthorn was nothing like our chaos game. Two big mobile key forwards, mediums and then the smalls. They more of a standard forward line. With good users of the ball hitting up targets willy nilly. It was the antitheses of our game plan.
When we had one key forward and a medium. With a host of fast smalls running through there. It’s all we had at the time.

Hardwick only played that system in 2017 as a necessity, when we only had Riewoldt as the key forward. He hadn’t used it before.

LOL , the Hawks invented the real chaos ball under John Kenedy everyone bar the full back and full forward (Peter Hudson) into the centre , hence the introduction of the centre diamond(1st year )/ centre square, that was complete chaos when it happened

 

[eZyT]

Honestly who gives a s**t the heritage of the players on our list.

me.

and most AFL lovers.

I dont know what game you've been watching the last 50 years?

Indigenous players punch way way above their weight, not only on representation, but being champions who make footy an art form

8 out of 44 norm smiths indigenous.

do the maths - 4% of the population, 18% of norm smith medals

>4 times as likely to be a big game champ? yes please

twice as likely as any other kid on an AFL list to win a Norm Smith.

the black, white or brindle bullcrap particularly doesn't stand scrutiny as applied to footy

drafting more indig kids is moneyball.

your comment is like saying who gives a s**t about the height of the players on the list.

FFS, give 'em at least one positive overrepresentation?

 

[Tiger Hammer]

If we finish last next year and clubs come for Balta,
We have to consider doing a Frawley/McKay and letting him go.


Pick 1 & 2.

It is a very interesting scenario.
Do we wish to be completely decimated?

Could we get as many high end picks over the next 2-3 years, then play moneyball with later pick trades (or free agents) for mature role players, the best trainers & role models that aren't necessarily the highest skilled players. We will have salary cap galore, so could incentivise them to come.

 

[Willo]

LOL , the Hawks invented the real chaos ball under John Kenedy everyone bar the full back and full forward (Peter Hudson) into the centre , hence the introduction of the centre diamond(1st year )/ centre square, that was complete chaos when it happened

LOLOL we invented in under Jack Dyer. Whenever his elbows came out it was chaos everywhere

 

[Don’t Argue]

me.

and most AFL lovers.

I dont know what game you've been watching the last 50 years?

Indigenous players punch way way above their weight, not only on representation, but being champions who make footy an art form

8 out of 44 norm smiths indigenous.

do the maths - 4% of the population, 18% of norm smith medals

>4 times as likely to be a big game champ? yes please

twice as likely as any other kid on an AFL list to win a Norm Smith.

the black, white or brindle bullcrap particularly doesn't stand scrutiny as applied to footy

drafting more indig kids is moneyball.

your comment is like saying who gives a s**t about the height of the players on the list.

FFS, give 'em at least one positive overrepresentation?

You don’t recruit them due to the colour of their skin.
You recruit them due to their abilities. And yes some of them are beautiful players to watch. And some of them prefer to drink and slap their wives around.
We need to be very careful generalising about people due to colour or creed.

 

[eZyT]

You don’t recruit them due to the colour of their skin.
You recruit them due to their abilities. And yes some of them are beautiful players to watch. And some of them prefer to drink and slap their wives around.
We need to be very careful generalising about people due to colour or creed.

I think you missed the point of my post entirely?

 

[Ghost of 29]

me.

and most AFL lovers.

I dont know what game you've been watching the last 50 years?

Indigenous players punch way way above their weight, not only on representation, but being champions who make footy an art form

8 out of 44 norm smiths indigenous.

do the maths - 4% of the population, 18% of norm smith medals

>4 times as likely to be a big game champ? yes please

twice as likely as any other kid on an AFL list to win a Norm Smith.

the black, white or brindle bullcrap particularly doesn't stand scrutiny as applied to footy

drafting more indig kids is moneyball.

your comment is like saying who gives a s**t about the height of the players on the list.

FFS, give 'em at least one positive overrepresentation?

Ive been watching and playing footy for a long time my friend.

Agree the good ones have been brilliant, but for every Dan Rioli I give you a Relton Roberts. If we deem a player who happens to be indigenous to be worthy of being drafted at a pick we hold then go for it.

And to compare the colour of ones skin against their height is ridiculous. And overrepresentation...if they are good enough to be drafted then great, if not then so be it...like every other kid who hopes to be drafted.

However it probably goes back to the pathways the indigenous kids go through. At the moment unless the kids from far North/NT/Tiwis etc.. go to a boarding school in one of WA/SA/VIC they are currently struggling to make it anywhere near draftable. Speaking to a guy involved in junior NT rep footy some years ago it is not a easy one to solve with many layers of issues to deal with most of which are more societal than just kicking a footy.

 

[ceehook2]

me.

and most AFL lovers.

I dont know what game you've been watching the last 50 years?

Indigenous players punch way way above their weight, not only on representation, but being champions who make footy an art form

8 out of 44 norm smiths indigenous.

do the maths - 4% of the population, 18% of norm smith medals

>4 times as likely to be a big game champ? yes please

twice as likely as any other kid on an AFL list to win a Norm Smith.

the black, white or brindle bullcrap particularly doesn't stand scrutiny as applied to footy

drafting more indig kids is moneyball.

your comment is like saying who gives a s**t about the height of the players on the list.

FFS, give 'em at least one positive overrepresentation?

I love what they bring to the game and our club has been fortunate to have plenty of good ones don our colours
I'm proud of the way our club appears to handle indigenous players

I feel for the ones that don't make it
Parker , I don't think anyone tried harder then him , he left it all on the ground , his work rate was excellent , and with that didn't get white line fever
he conducted himself really well , I think it just come down to poise with ball in hand

Stack , I saw him twice in his early days and had a birds eye view of the Viney bump , on field he had what it takes to be an AFL footballer , off field he struggled

Coulthard - his early games were great but he just seemed to get lost this year , even VFL level , if you go off the boil just a little and you're soon found out , Steve Morris often commented about the amount of two running he was doing

Marlion Pickett - the fair story first game , which was deserved on the back of very good VFL form , his back story and the court case bubbling away in the back ground , from the outside it looks like the club has handled very well , i loved his contested marking on the wing , it played a big part in a lot of our wins

Troy Taylor - like Sydney had talent , but also had issues , I felt the club handled him well

Francis Jackson told me the story of him going to Alice Springs and chartering a small plane to go and see Liam Jarrah , when he got there a Melb. recruiter was already there. By chance I saw Liam's first game , at Manuka Oval and followed his short career

So Ez , don't worry , I'm confident our football Dept does rate indigenous talent , we bat well above the 3% of general population , and will target them if quality ones are available this trade / draft period

this off season is very important in our rebuild we just dont want another Relton Roberts or Jon Oakley Nicholls

 

[Scoop]

Jon Oakley Nicholls

Jon made sure we over represented in the most niche of creeds, lawn mowers.

 

[eZyT]

Yeah i wasnt really talking about individuals,

Rather than the maths.

An indigenous player is twice as likely to win a norm smith as all the other players

thats a fact.

This bit is opinion, related to list management

Let recruit heaps of black fellas,

And double our norm smith medal rate.

 

[Don’t Argue]

Yeah i wasnt really talking about individuals,

Rather than the maths.

An indigenous player is twice as likely to win a norm smith as all the other players

thats a fact.

This bit is opinion, related to list management

Let recruit heaps of black fellas,

And double our norm smith medal rate.

Great to see I’m not the only one missing your point.
We all love indigenous players though. Reckon not only are the good ones super athletic and graceful but I’ve got this wild theory that they develop their balance and footwork by learning the game barefooted on tough surfaces.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

They are a species all of their own. Quick reflexes, speed off the mark, good vision and creative. Deadly accurate.

And on field swagger.
Akermanis, Stevie J, Tiprat, Cyril...
Eddie Betts seemed to have it all. One of my all time faves. (And a beautiful person.)

Jake King was the proto typical small forward.

 

[13Cups]

me.

and most AFL lovers.

I dont know what game you've been watching the last 50 years?

Indigenous players punch way way above their weight, not only on representation, but being champions who make footy an art form

8 out of 44 norm smiths indigenous.

do the maths - 4% of the population, 18% of norm smith medals

>4 times as likely to be a big game champ? yes please

twice as likely as any other kid on an AFL list to win a Norm Smith.

the black, white or brindle bullcrap particularly doesn't stand scrutiny as applied to footy

drafting more indig kids is moneyball.

your comment is like saying who gives a s**t about the height of the players on the list.

FFS, give 'em at least one positive overrepresentation?

Best available at every pick will do me.

 

[Willo]

Yeah i wasnt really talking about individuals,

Rather than the maths.

An indigenous player is twice as likely to win a norm smith as all the other players

thats a fact.

This bit is opinion, related to list management

Let recruit heaps of black fellas,

And double our norm smith medal rate.

How many indigenous players did we play in our 3 grand finals?
I don’t believe for a minute the odds make them any more or less likely to win a NS.
It depends on the calibre of the player. It depends on how his team is playing. It depends on the position the plays.
In fact it all boils down to how good he is. There have been plenty of indigenous players that haven’t made the grade n gf day as well. What do you put that down to?
There’s no guarantee a idigenous kid even makes the grade. Skills, adaptability, structures, discipline. No different to a lot of white non indigenous boys.
Nothing to do with skin colour. Imo.
You could make a fairly long list of indigenous kids who couldn’t make the first 22 on a regular basis. Let alone hope they’d be NS medallist material.

 

[eZyT]

How many indigenous players did we play in our 3 grand finals?
I don’t believe for a minute the odds make them any more or less likely to win a NS.
It depends on the calibre of the player. It depends on how his team is playing. It depends on the position the plays.
In fact it all boils down to how good he is. There have been plenty of indigenous players that haven’t made the grade n gf day as well. What do you put that down to?
There’s no guarantee a idigenous kid even makes the grade. Skills, adaptability, structures, discipline. No different to a lot of white non indigenous boys.
Nothing to do with skin colour. Imo.
You could make a fairly long list of indigenous kids who couldn’t make the first 22 on a regular basis. Let alone hope they’d be NS medallist material.

mathematics

let me reiterate

4% of the population

9% of the AFL

18% of norm smith medalists.

it a fairly linear 45 degree graph of success.

moneybag. (thats like wild honey moneyball)