2024 - List Management

[Tigerwa]

Normally would agree with you Wait Awhile.

Firstly there is no way Marlion walks away from a $350-$400K contract. Which is below average in the AFL.

No-one does these days except the elite who have set themselves up. It's not like he has other opportunities like the media or a corporate career to go to. Nor has he had a long career to set himself up.

It's clear he wasn't offered a deal.

Secondly, Bakes, Graham, Dan and Shai are all odds-on to leave. Add a couple inevitable injuries it doesn't leave a lot of experience.

We don't want to be Melbourne under Neeld and have a dearth of leaders, lose our way and be bottom 4 for a decade. Not all players need to be in our next premiership team. It's the most false argument to keep anyone - ever.

It's just not game day we need people like K-Mac either. It's the grind from November to March. K-Mac is a charismatic, well-loved, fantastic athlete who will help provide the positive environment our new cubs need.

Yeah he's very lucky due to the circumstances of the exodus, but reckon the above's why Blair, Livo and Adem will give him another year.

He walks at age 33 and i read his dad recently died. Family becomes very important and values change.

If we want McIntosh around the club he does not have to be taking up a list spot to do so. You might be right and they think they need his experience i don't agree.

Based on recent years we still have 16 players aged between 24 and 30plus. Most will be starters. I don't think experience age is a big problem this year it should become one next year when the last of our 30 year olds look to retire.

Because of this i think we will be targeting some mature players over coming drafts.

Any way i suppose we can agree to disagree on weather Kamdyn stays or goes.

 

[tigersnake]

Stuff you Damo, you will still to continue to eat humble pie. Always putting us down,.




View attachment 24038

Its an odd mix of hate, stupidity and click baiting.

 

[Scoop]

Normally would agree with you Wait Awhile.

Firstly there is no way Marlion walks away from a $350-$400K contract. Which is below average in the AFL.

No-one does these days except the elite who have set themselves up. It's not like he has other opportunities like the media or a corporate career to go to. Nor has he had a long career to set himself up.

It's clear he wasn't offered a deal.

Secondly, Bakes, Graham, Dan and Shai are all odds-on to leave. Add a couple inevitable injuries it doesn't leave a lot of experience.

We don't want to be Melbourne under Neeld and have a dearth of leaders, lose our way and be bottom 4 for a decade. Not all players need to be in our next premiership team. It's the most false argument to keep anyone - ever.

It's just not game day we need people like K-Mac either. It's the grind from November to March. K-Mac is a charismatic, well-loved, fantastic athlete who will help provide the positive environment our new cubs need.

Yeah he's very lucky due to the circumstances of the exodus, but reckon the above's why Blair, Livo and Adem will give him another year.

Hopper, Taranto, Lynch, Nank, Short, even Ross at 70 games, these are all leaders that if fit will play.

These leadership roles only matter when the guy involved is in the best 22.

Having McIntosh run around in the VFL for 15 weeks isn't helping anyone. The wings need to be Banks and Hugo.

He is not an AFL player now, the role players drop off quick. Time to move on. Would prefer to trial a 23 year old state league player as a backup winger.

 

[Smoking Aces]

Talking about leadership, what I found interesting yesterday was when Yze was asked about who he sees as our next leaders he mentioned Hopper, Taranto and Ross.

No mention of Baker or Graham. A clear indication as any that they are gone.

 

[mrposhman]

Talking about leadership, what I found interesting yesterday was when Yze was asked about who he sees as our next leaders he mentioned Hopper, Taranto and Ross.

No mention of Baker or Graham. A clear indication as any that they are gone.

Good pickup. If Bakes was staying, he would have certainly raised his name. They are both gone IMO. Shai probably too, Dan is the only 1 I'm probably unsure about.

 

[mrposhman]

Hopper, Taranto, Lynch, Nank, Short, even Ross at 70 games, these are all leaders that if fit will play.

These leadership roles only matter when the guy involved is in the best 22.

Having McIntosh run around in the VFL for 15 weeks isn't helping anyone. The wings need to be Banks and Hugo.

He is not an AFL player now, the role players drop off quick. Time to move on. Would prefer to trial a 23 year old state league player as a backup winger.

I'd normally agree with you, but Kmac is such a lively presence around the club and is without doubt 1 of the best trainers at the club. Having him set standards is going to be big. He, Taranto and emerging players like Campbell can really set the running standards required going forwards.

I don't expect Kmac to play many games next year, more a break glass in time of emergency, but he'll be there for the standard setting.

Whilst you are right, we have some emerging leaders, we will have a very young list next year, and more so an inexperienced list. We currently have 24 players on our list that will start next year under 50 games (Hugo makes it 25 if you want to include 50 games). If we add say 8 draftees (by losing 10 players and lose 2 of these - Cumbo and Coulthard), that takes that to 30 players on a list of what 44

Vlastuin - 232, Prestia - 224, Lynch - 220, Kmac - 189, Short - 174, Nank - 156, TT - 151, Broad - 147, Hopper - 141, Balta - 103, Ross - 69, Kosi - 61, Mansell 52, Hugo - 50 are the 14 players that are over 50 games.

Sure, maybe we trade 1 or 2 in to cover this gap and maybe thats part of the thinking if Kmac goes, but our list will be very inexperienced next year and you need those jovial characters and top trainers to make sure that you set a good environment and strong training standards for the younger boys.

 

[spook]

Would prefer to trial a 23 year old state league player as a backup winger.

There's one in our VFL team who might be worth a shot. Austin Johnson. Turns 23 in December.

 

[mrposhman]

There's one in our VFL team who might be worth a shot. Austin Johnson. Turns 23 in December.

I really like Johnson, have for a long while. Would be happy to pick him up in the rookie draft.

 

[Smoking Aces]

Good pickup. If Bakes was staying, he would have certainly raised his name. They are both gone IMO. Shai probably too, Dan is the only 1 I'm probably unsure about.

The other player he didn’t mention was Short.

 

[spook]

I really like Johnson, have for a long while. Would be happy to pick him up in the rookie draft.

Yeah, he's a nice player. Good mover, good kick.

 

[Brodders17]

Normally would agree with you Wait Awhile.

Firstly there is no way Marlion walks away from a $350-$400K contract. Which is below average in the AFL.

No-one does these days except the elite who have set themselves up. It's not like he has other opportunities like the media or a corporate career to go to. Nor has he had a long career to set himself up.

It's clear he wasn't offered a deal.

Secondly, Bakes, Graham, Dan and Shai are all odds-on to leave. Add a couple inevitable injuries it doesn't leave a lot of experience.

We don't want to be Melbourne under Neeld and have a dearth of leaders, lose our way and be bottom 4 for a decade. Not all players need to be in our next premiership team. It's the most false argument to keep anyone - ever.

It's just not game day we need people like K-Mac either. It's the grind from November to March. K-Mac is a charismatic, well-loved, fantastic athlete who will help provide the positive environment our new cubs need.

Yeah he's very lucky due to the circumstances of the exodus, but reckon the above's why Blair, Livo and Adem will give him another year.

Maybe, but i reckon Pickett walks into a well paying job where he doesnt risk further injury, and where he wont be fined for just doing his job.
He gets to spend his non-working hours from November-March playing with his kids, not stuffed from a pre-season, and in season he can walk during the week.
AFL Footy is a hard gig and for a 33yo with kids i can see why they would walk away.

 

[Brodders17]

Good pickup. If Bakes was staying, he would have certainly raised his name. They are both gone IMO. Shai probably too, Dan is the only 1 I'm probably unsure about.

I expect Baker will go, but he is actually a current leader, so maybe thats why he wasnt mentioned. Short too.

 

[mrposhman]

Maybe, but i reckon Pickett walks into a well paying job where he doesnt risk further injury, and where he wont be fined for just doing his job.
He gets to spend his non-working hours from November-March playing with his kids, not stuffed from a pre-season, and in season he can walk during the week.
AFL Footy is a hard gig and for a 33yo with kids i can see why they would walk away.

I agree, if there is a favourable outcome from his court case, then I reckon he joins a cubs indigenous programme.

 

[HeadandShin]

If you haven’t already, watch Sam Naismith’s retirement speech on the club website. A tear in my eye by the end - and several players in the audience looked a bit teary, too. Some genuinely warm hugs from compadres to finish off.

As well as his own moving story, he effectively tells the tale of many a football career: injuries, frustrations, moving clubs, mental health impact. He seems a sincere and likeable bloke, not a natural speaker but honest and willing to open up. He would be a great resource to keep at the club to mentor players going through the same issues he has had.

 

[Harry]

If Blair and Toce believe this draft is strong, we should trade out those wanting to leave for early picks

We'll still have half a team of core experienced senior players (12) - Vlastuin, Prestia, Ross, Taranto, Short, Lynch, Balta, Hopper, Nank, McIntosh, Broad, Miller

supported by some younger less experienced players - MRJ, HRS, Gibcus, Kosi, Juddy, Dow, MaCauliffe, Brown, Mansell, Trezise, Sonsie, Banks, Lefau, Campbell

but we really need to nail the picks, fix up our strength and conditioning dept. and get some better development coaches.

Give Yze a blank canvass like we did when Dimma started.

have no other option really

 

[Sir]

Just an idea .......... but (IMHO) it's important that we make a delineation between 1. Experience, and 2. Leadership

For years we have watched games and then (like a losing jockey post race) we try and define (excuse?) what went wrong:

- the young kids don't have enough experience
- the leaders didn't step up

Blah, blah, blah

As we come to the end of the wonderful 2017-2020 era and the players retire and/or move on it's important that we don't confuse experience with leadership.

IMHO we can quickly (with confidence) say that Cotchin, Lambert, Houli, Riewoldt, Rance, Dusty, Grimes (and rightly more) all had natural 'leadership' qualities.......

The senior/experienced players remaining into 2025 are not (IMHO) natural 'leaders'.

Let's for argument sake do a quick selective list:

1. Nankervis - tries his guts out and steps up every week but he hasn't shown great impact as a leader 6/10
2. Broad - seems to have blossomed as a leader but he's stepping into the void rather than naturally assuming the role 7/10
3. Flossy - great player and good leader by his actions each week 7/10
4. Baker - seems to have tapered off (is he leaving?) 6/10
5. Graham - I'm surprised he's starting 22. His game is simply not up to it. Clearly a man of character but I can't think of a single game he was BoG 6/10
6. Taranto - uncertain. 2024 has been disappointing. He should have assumed a leadership role but if anything seems to be more mercenary than leader 6/10
7. Prestia - a LEGEND - but his body is shot and he tends to be someone that lets their football do the talking. He's not a 'leader' hes a doer 4/10
8. Rioli - great player - legend - but (again) I'm not convinced his personality embraces leadership 4/10
9. KMac - on his last legs. I'm sure he has some leadership skills but not moving forward 4/10
10. Short - very good player in previous years - such a disappointment in 2024. You can't lead when your game has become more liability than asset 4/10
11. Hopper - jury still out - hopefully we see a marked change in 2024 4/10
12. Bolton - let's be honest - this guy is an X factor player - he's not a leader. 3/10 (besides - he's leaving)

(Yes - I'm sure I could debate them ad nauseum)
(Yes - I'm sure I missed a few)

1. LYNCH!!! if he can get back to playing the KPF role well - he claerly has 'leadership' qualities 8/10 (but can he come back fit??)

Bottom line No1 - is that (IMHO) we are going to have some real "leadership" challenges in 2025
Bottom line No2 - is that (on paper) we don't have an 'experience' problem
Bottom line No3 - is that you don't need experience to be a great leader.

BUT .............. it takes a Lord of the Flies type event to expose and then groom character (leadership) and I merely pray that those 'within the 'four walls 'have accepted that we are/have bottomed out - and we need to cultivate the right persons moving forward (beyond 2025!!!) and the new crop will need a lot of sports / mind / leadership development and education during the off season - not just skills sessions.

 

[HeadandShin]

but we really need to nail the picks, fix up our strength and conditioning dept. and get some better development coaches.

Unfortunately, that’s a bit like the advice for getting rich: get up early, work hard, and strike oil….

 

[daniel30]

 

[D85]

Dont need to be best 23 to be a leader at a football club, I would keep Kamdyn as he will have a role to play even if not consistently in the senior team.

 

[Frank Booth]

Dylan goes alright but he's a Kangraoos man and hasn't spent alot of time watching RFC in 2024. Also calls Mate Colina Matt and thinks Coulthard will stay on the list