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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
When will Bernie go !!
- Thread starter Tigaman
- Start date
antman said:
You keep saying that Antman, ad nauseum as if it means anything or is clever
Is that some sort of self coping mechanism, sort of like OCD and checking the locks and washing your hands compulsively.
If so good on you, hopefully it works!
antman said:
OK then, a form of tourettes then rather than OCD.
Carry on!
Reflex goes something like this then....
"The club and coaches are doing what many posters have said they should be doing for years. Must reflexively post smug and vaccous reposte to cover embarrassment of being a misled and mistaken fanboi for so long."
lamb22 said:
I think you mean "vacuous riposte" but I'll concede they are hard words to spell for some. And if you can point out the years of posts where darksiders said "appoint a midfield spread coach, play an incredibly short forward line and where the smalls role is to tackle and pressure manically as well as kick the odd goal", be my guest.
What do you actually think about Dimma's AA coach of the mid-season award? Well-deserved? A total farce? Should have gone to Leppacella?
antman said:
Are you kidding? Heaps of posters Evo, Leysey, JB, Baron, Harry, Timmy, Totty, Oldy and many others (forgive me for missing you) have argued about releasing the handbrake (suffocating defensive structures) and playing to the strengths of the team.
Key issues with the game plan were suffocating the flair and intuition out of players.
Moving the ball too slowly.
Moving the ball laterally and back too much rather than forward.
Not having enough men forward of the ball;
Having the wrong mix in the forward line.
The key words coming out of the club this year is 'playing to our strengths', These words were rarely if ever mentioned before. The magic words in Hardwick's first 7 years (apart from these four walls) was adhering to our structures. Our strengths as it happens this year are fast skilled energetic forward mozzies and a rebooted midfield (with added mids and nank) and our bookends.
So thankfully those issues were addressed. Those arguing for changes lauded the new game style going back to the pre season games. Many also lauded the trade period and the emphasis on onfield leadership by promoting Jack and trimming the leadership group.
However being thankful for the changes doesn't mean you ignore the negligent waste of our best players the last 3 years in particular by stubbornly adhering to a flawed model.
The challenge lies ahead. This season is as even as there has ever been and we are set up well at half year (should have been better) for a real tilt. Hardwick has to continue to commit to the new way and not revert to character. Hopefully years of reverting to caution and reaction has taught him he must be adventurous and pro active concentrating on our game plan and not trying to double or triple guess what the opponents will do.
lamb22 said:
And to think we used to have civil discussions here, Lamby.
It's one thing to say here's all the things that Dimma and his team is doing wrong - you and the rest of the gang were very good at that, I'll give you credit there. It's totally another to claim that now he's just doing all the things you told him to do - that's a bit more of a stretch.
As for me, I'm just happy the collective coaching team is kicking some goals despite tough circumstances such as the lack of a CHF. Whether that's all Dimma's work or Dimma/Leppacella I don't really care.
Good on Dimma for being named AA Coach of the mid-season though.
antman said:
Well I apologise for being less than civil but you are arguing for the sake of arguing,
From the very first pre season game the lateral movement was gone and the slow movement was gone. Exactly what many had wanted.
Secondly we played one man deep forward at all times even when their zones pushed up.
What many of us complained about for years was how easy teams ran the ball out. This was because we usually had only 5 forwards and three of them were talls. From JLT1 we manned up their spare and played more pressure forwards. If you are going to try and keep the ball locked in you need the right type and number. Had you actually read our posts rather than concentrate on glib retorts you might actually have picked up on what we were saying.
Finally he released the shackles on Jack and Cotch and Dusty and arguably Rancey. Their srengths are one on one and moving the ball quickly and creating more one on one contests is working in their favour and all are having good to very good years.
I don't actually need the acknowledgement that I (and we) were right. However kicking metaphorical sand in our faces because we were right is a bit rich.
Anyway like you I prefer that we are kicking goals.
E
easy_tiger
Guest
lamb22 said:
indeed.
you blokes kind of couldnt have been more wrong this season hey?
Its OK though. I approached similar levels of wrong in 2016.
I was probably not quite so overtly wrong though.
but good on you blokes for having a crack. You didnt sit on the fence.
E
easy_tiger
Guest
There are obviously 2 very different schools of thought around here.
One, which I subscribe to is that we have and have had elite top end talent. But below them it thins out very quickly. Poor recruiting over the 2008-2014 years has been very costly in providing support for our fab 5 (now 4). How much influence Dimma had over that is another point entirely which has also been argued to death.
Dimma, having taken this shallow list to 15, 12 and 15 win seasons over 2013-15 (which aren't the disasters they are portrayed to be by some) did a good job with the cattle he had. He (and his assistants) implemented a gameplan that suited the cattle he had available and had that list achieve pretty much as much as it could given its profile. Regularly beat sides that were better than us during the H&A but couldn't get it done in finals.
The other, which I disagree with, is that the list is and has been very strong, has been and still is a top 4 list and if coached properly would have achieved much better than the 15, 12 and 15 win seasons over 2013-15. That the fact that the side didn't achieve more in those years (and probably others) and win finals is down to the coach and the coach alone. Interestingly, this is a view that I have not heard from anyone other than rusted on tiger supporters on this forum, and perhaps the odd one in a pub after a few dozen pints and a Tiger victory.
These are just opinions. There is no right or wrong because how can you prove one view over the other? It promotes good debate which will probably go on until we either win a flag or Dimma goes.
But to try and say "i'm right, you're wrong" because we are starting to win a few games and represent assumptions as facts to back it up is nonsense.
One, which I subscribe to is that we have and have had elite top end talent. But below them it thins out very quickly. Poor recruiting over the 2008-2014 years has been very costly in providing support for our fab 5 (now 4). How much influence Dimma had over that is another point entirely which has also been argued to death.
Dimma, having taken this shallow list to 15, 12 and 15 win seasons over 2013-15 (which aren't the disasters they are portrayed to be by some) did a good job with the cattle he had. He (and his assistants) implemented a gameplan that suited the cattle he had available and had that list achieve pretty much as much as it could given its profile. Regularly beat sides that were better than us during the H&A but couldn't get it done in finals.
The other, which I disagree with, is that the list is and has been very strong, has been and still is a top 4 list and if coached properly would have achieved much better than the 15, 12 and 15 win seasons over 2013-15. That the fact that the side didn't achieve more in those years (and probably others) and win finals is down to the coach and the coach alone. Interestingly, this is a view that I have not heard from anyone other than rusted on tiger supporters on this forum, and perhaps the odd one in a pub after a few dozen pints and a Tiger victory.
These are just opinions. There is no right or wrong because how can you prove one view over the other? It promotes good debate which will probably go on until we either win a flag or Dimma goes.
But to try and say "i'm right, you're wrong" because we are starting to win a few games and represent assumptions as facts to back it up is nonsense.
