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When will Bernie go !!
- Thread starter Tigaman
- Start date
Harry said:
We have a new game plan, no doubt. "Trusting your back six" and "running into an open goal" is not a game plan however.
Where the coaches (all of them) have excelled this year is creating a game plan in part forced on them by necessity and player talent/availability. And they've done it not by copying Hawthorn or Footscray, but by creating something unique.
Amazing achievement so far really.
antman said:
Really?
Pushing numbers forward is not a game plan? Players don't just miraculously appear there. They have been instructed to push hard and quickly when the turnover occurs instead of going sideways and securing the ball which was Bernies bread and butter game plan.
Amazing what a simple yet effective game plan can bring.
Carter said:
So it's rebuilding "for the future" now as our superstars naturally decline :hihi By getting rid of Jack, Dusty, Hardwick, and starting again from scratch :hihi
This is what you actually said:
Carter May 22 said:
"No longer" refers to now, not the future.
Carter May 22 said:
That isn't rebuilding for the future "as our superstars decline", it's starting again from fresh, without our superstars. You don't trade away our only FF and a Brownlow midfielder if you think you've got a top 4 list in 2017.
Carter May 22 said:
You're "certain" we'll do a full rebuild, getting rid of Hardwick, Dusty & Jack, and rebuilding the list from scratch... but what you really meant was that you define "rebuild" as something more akin to "ongoing replenishment for the future"?
As I said, with all due respect to the other parts of who you are, but your posting on football represents the anus of online opinions.
Anyway the wind blows...
Harry said:
Why the pettiness? We all agree the game plan that worked to get us into the finals in consecutive years was no good to take us further and bombed horribly in 2016. No argument.
I'm more interested in what we have done this year that's been so different, so yeah, credit to Dimma and Leppacella for coming up with something so radically challenging to other teams.
Harry said:
Harry tell us when you reckon Butler should've debuted?
And i reckon history shows the club, not just Hardwick, was right on White.
123kid said:So it's rebuilding "for the future" now as our superstars naturally decline :hihi By getting rid of Jack, Dusty, Hardwick, and starting again from scratch :hihi
This is what you actually said:
"No longer" refers to now, not the future.
That isn't rebuilding for the future "as our superstars decline", it's starting again from fresh, without our superstars. You don't trade away our only FF and a Brownlow midfielder if you think you've got a top 4 list in 2017.
You're "certain" we'll do a full rebuild, getting rid of Hardwick, Dusty & Jack, and rebuilding the list from scratch... but what you really meant was that you define "rebuild" as something more akin to "ongoing replenishment for the future"?
As I said, with all due respect to the other parts of who you are, but your posting on football represents the anus of online opinions.
Anyway the wind blows...
If we crash out in straight sets, what's the position then?
It's round 20, imaginatively named 123kid.
We don't have a midfield coming through. I hope we cut deep in September, but where are we at if we give it our best shot and fail?
Superstars aren't getting younger. What is currently a top four list can depreciate quickly. Do you watch football?
So many years already wasted under Hardwick.
So why don't you cool your jets instead of trawling through posts that I stand by 100%?
antman said:
Back to full agreement then :hihi
You would've been better off googling a random position right from the get-go.
Carter said:
The PRE-go away heat reference went over your head, but that's okay. Only a few will get it.
You think we should trade Dusty and Jack and completely rebuild the current list. That's fine. I disagree, and I'll give you my reasons:
1. We have the youngest list of the top 8 teams.
2. We have no key retirements on the horizon.
3. We should recruit more Caddy/Prestia/Nankervis types to supplement our list (as I said back in your thread) rather than throw away Jack, Dusty and start again.
You've stated you are "certain" we are going to completely start again from scratch, and you "stand by 100%" even though we're sitting 3rd on the ladder with the youngest list of the top 8 and all our superstar players in their prime.
Do you still 100% stand by your opinion to trade Jack and Dusty at the end of the year?
Any way the wind blows...
Harry said:
To me the dud/Top 4 list argument is a furphy. It's always alchemy that determines if a game plan works with a particular set of players, so it's a futile argument to have IMO. If Baron wants to argue we should have had a three-peat with our list, good on him. I'm sure he thinks I'm "delusional" for not agreeing, but whatever.
So let's look at it more closely. Dimma always loved locking the ball in forward fifty, but we didn't have the side to score regularly from that - we'd lock it in, stuff up and North Melbourne or whoever would slingshot out the back and score. - Now he has a team that scores regularly from holding the ball tackles and turnovers. And we scare the living hell out of the backman trying to run or clear the ball out of defensive fifty. The other thing we do is pressure the ball carrier all the way up into midfield so it makes balls into our defensive fifty easier to pick off. Our defence is awesome, yes - but we defend with pressure all the way up the ground.
Numbers to the contest is a big change this year too and that is personnel (and attitude). Prestia, Caddy (when mid), Lambert, Cotch (Miles) are always there at the contest winning the ball out to our runners who then break ... fast. Nank is an additional inside mid in this context too. And Dusty either wins the ball, fends off and bangs a long pass in or is there on the outside to receive - rinse and repeat. And we don't kick long as much to a one-on-one in the forward fifty this year - we run it in numbers into the forward fifty and look for a 15-30 metre pass to a mozzie who's already left their defender behind. Don't necessarily agree we have a forward "structure" - we have Jack one out, maybe Dusty or Cotch deep and one or two of the mozzies standing by - see above.
So yeah, personnel matters to game plan. Both are important.
The best part of this for me is the ferocious tackling leading to turnovers in midfield, then a fast break. It's great to watch.
123kid said:
I'm not at the club so I don't know what they'll do, but if we fail to win a final you'd be crazy not to address the state of the list as well as the ability of our head coach.
So we have the youngest list of the current final eight. Do you want a medal for that bald stat? I get the feeling you want a doggy biscuit.
Have you considered that our young players (the mozzies, Short, Rioli, menners, etc) are all flanker types?
That we don't actually have any young KPPs (apart from Garth) or promising pure mids?
You might have enjoyed coming on here all guns blazing, but you haven't actually taken a step back to look at the list.
No young pure mids, one young tall.
Getting a young crop of mids to develop together takes time.
Developing a spine takes even longer.
That's rebuild city buddy, now or in 2020.
If we crash out of September, we need to look at building for the future.
No amount of band aid solutions, as you suggest, will fix this.
You come on here ready to criticise when your solution for a non-existent tall roster is to supplement through trade?
Who do you expect? Tex walker? Joe daniher?
Go watch some footy 123 :hihi
Baron Samedi said:
Not at all Baron. Still waiting for you to show us your posts where you called for this game plan. Doubt you'll come through with much, but do your worst.
Please, if there's a website that already contains all the *smile*ed-up sh!t that I make up as I go feel free to send me the link - I'd be interested to meet these guys that think the same way I do so I can go and get a beer with 'em.
Get a new set of insults, the ones you have are tired and worn out.
Or here's a better idea - stop being a supercilious bastard who thinks his opinions are dipped in gold and any who disagrees are delusional "duffel coaters/frothers/cheer squaders/barflys" or whatever cute turn of phrase you can come up with.
Show others and their opinions a bit of respect and you might find you get some back.
Harry said:
Try and expose the dud list arguments with facts rather than fiction Harry and we can then have a fruitful discussion.
Anyway, I reckon the list is in good shape at the moment. The addition of ready made players and emergence of kids who weren't ready last year has certainly added to it. Certainly bats deeper now than at any time during the "top 4 list' years of 2013-2016. In my opinion.
I had my doubts earlier this season but recent form has made me a believer. And I certainly don't believe that this year's gameplan, with last year's list, would have had us in the top 4. No point having one without the other. And I certainly don't believe that Dimma had no input into this years gameplan either.
I certainly wasn't the only person questioning the quality of the list in previous years. Many people who have been involved in more afl clubs than you or I were of the same view. And many thought Dimma had done a good job getting such a list as far as he did.
antman said:
Awww. Playing the downtrodden card is not going to win my respect. And I have plenty for others on here, don't worry about that.
