Welcome Tom Brown

[Mr Brightside]

I think this kid oozes talent , perfect modern day half back prototype imho.

However Ive seen a couple of incidents in the last 2 weeks live were I just don’t think he commits well enough to the contest , not soft just like to see him back himself more to win the footy and show more intensity.

I have absolutely zero idea as usual , however I have a “feel” he will ask to be traded to the Cats

 

[Dont Argue]

I think this kid oozes talent , perfect modern day half back prototype imho.

However Ive seen a couple of incidents in the last 2 weeks live were I just don’t think he commits well enough to the contest , not soft just like to see him back himself more to win the footy and show more intensity.

I have absolutely zero idea as usual , however I have a “feel” he will ask to be traded to the Cats

I haven’t seen anything other than a smooth kicking action to suggest he’ll make it.
Tresize and Brindley shown way more but aren’t highly prized draft recruits and aren’t pretty by foot. Perhaps even scrappy. But if their names were Brown, we’d be in raptures.
In other words, we’re giving Brown far too much allowances for sub standard performances.
And please don’t mention his injury. He’s been back long enough to get match fit.
I’d love to know who he played on yesterday. 14 disposals including most of the kick outs is simply not good enough at VFL level.
I’m putting him under the microscope but not writing him off. But he’d want to produce soon.

 

[The_General]

I haven’t seen anything other than a smooth kicking action to suggest he’ll make it.
Tresize and Brindley shown way more but aren’t highly prized draft recruits and aren’t pretty by foot. Perhaps even scrappy. But if their names were Brown, we’d be in raptures.
In other words, we’re giving Brown far too much allowances for sub standard performances.
And please don’t mention his injury. He’s been back long enough to get match fit.
I’d love to know who he played on yesterday. 14 disposals including most of the kick outs is simply not good enough at VFL level.
I’m putting him under the microscope but not writing him off. But he’d want to produce soon.

You're really doubling down on this aren't you?

Given the coaching staff have been saying he has more than a good kick, I'm guessing, as always, that you're seeing what you want to see.
Sounds quite arrogant that *you're* "putting him under the microscope".

"He'd want to produce soon." Or what? You'll go send a truck load of chicken *smile* there? You'll wait outside Punt Rd and demand he be sacked to Blair Hartley? Get over yourself. The club, and only the club, will know if he's meeting their expectations. I dare say if he is,they'll be talking to him about it.

But as a second year player, and having shown signs over the past month, of being AFL calibre, I don't think the club's alarm bells are ringing.

 

[Dont Argue]

You're really doubling down on this aren't you?

Given the coaching staff have been saying he has more than a good kick, I'm guessing, as always, that you're seeing what you want to see.
Sounds quite arrogant that *you're* "putting him under the microscope".

"He'd want to produce soon." Or what? You'll go send a truck load of chicken *smile* there? You'll wait outside Punt Rd and demand he be sacked to Blair Hartley? Get over yourself. The club, and only the club, will know if he's meeting their expectations. I dare say if he is,they'll be talking to him about it.

But as a second year player, and having shown signs over the past month, of being AFL calibre, I don't think the club's alarm bells are ringing.

So no one can comment on a player without being arrogant?
Can’t have opinion without your approval?
Think you need to come up with some original thoughts rather than lurking on here potting other peoples opinions.
You’re coming across as a sour troll

 

[The_General]

So no one can comment on a player without being arrogant?
Can’t have opinion without your approval?
Think you need to come up with some original thoughts rather than lurking on here potting other peoples opinions.
You’re coming across as a sour troll

Sure comment away about a players performance, knock yours socks off. But you're not just commenting about his performance, you're acting like he needs to be sacked "He'd want to produce soon".

It's the arrogance of putting a player "under the microscope", like you're the authority to judge his ability. Like you have determined he needs some extra attention or performance management. Typically you've ignored the questions I've asked.

For the record:
We've won 1 game at VFL level when Brown has had under 20 possies (his first game back).
When he's had over 20, we're 3-1. When he's under 20, we're 1-2.
Yes they're "only stats" but generally stats are an indicator as to how well someone is performing (eg Grainger Barass got subbed with 0 K and HB yesterday).
They also would be a rough guide for how his contribution to the team contributes to our performances. Something I'm sure you're microscope would easily
pick up.

Opponent	D	M	T	Clr	Result
Giants	9	2	3	1	W
Werribee	22	2	2	0	L
Sandringham	30	5	3	1	W
Brisbane	21	5	1	1	W
Sydney	14	4	0	1	L
Southport	26	5	0	2	W
Box Hill	15	2	3	0	L

So what are you putting him under the microscope for? What does he need to do to start "producing" in your eyes?
If you want to say he lacks consistency. I'd agree. Those numbers are all over the shop. However, most young players in their 2nd years lack consistency.
Are you saying he's not producing because he's not defending well enough? Are you saying it because he didn't find much of the ball this week and 2 weeks before that? I'm guessing, but not sure, you're allowing a young player to actually develop and learn? You know, get feedback after a game and see how they respond?
I'm also guessing, given how damaging he is by foot, just maybe the opposition isn't giving him as much latitutde as he might have got in the earlier games?
Perhaps he's got to adjust to people playing him differently? Or is that now allowed in a 2nd year player?

What is the baseline acceptable criteria that a late teens pick is expected to achieve in your lordships opinion? Which players in his position also taken in his draft year do you think are the benchmark he should be aiming to get to?

 

[Dont Argue]

Sure comment away about a players performance, knock yours socks off. But you're not just commenting about his performance, you're acting like he needs to be sacked "He'd want to produce soon".

It's the arrogance of putting a player "under the microscope", like you're the authority to judge his ability. Like you have determined he needs some extra attention or performance management. Typically you've ignored the questions I've asked.

For the record:
We've won 1 game at VFL level when Brown has had under 20 possies (his first game back).
When he's had over 20, we're 3-1. When he's under 20, we're 1-2.
Yes they're "only stats" but generally stats are an indicator as to how well someone is performing (eg Grainger Barass got subbed with 0 K and HB yesterday).
They also would be a rough guide for how his contribution to the team contributes to our performances. Something I'm sure you're microscope would easily
pick up.

Opponent	D	M	T	Clr	Result
Giants	9	2	3	1	W
Werribee	22	2	2	0	L
Sandringham	30	5	3	1	W
Brisbane	21	5	1	1	W
Sydney	14	4	0	1	L
Southport	26	5	0	2	W
Box Hill	15	2	3	0	L

So what are you putting him under the microscope for? What does he need to do to start "producing" in your eyes?
If you want to say he lacks consistency. I'd agree. Those numbers are all over the shop. However, most young players in their 2nd years lack consistency.
Are you saying he's not producing because he's not defending well enough? Are you saying it because he didn't find much of the ball this week and 2 weeks before that? I'm guessing, but not sure, you're allowing a young player to actually develop and learn? You know, get feedback after a game and see how they respond?
I'm also guessing, given how damaging he is by foot, just maybe the opposition isn't giving him as much latitutde as he might have got in the earlier games?
Perhaps he's got to adjust to people playing him differently? Or is that now allowed in a 2nd year player?

What is the baseline acceptable criteria that a late teens pick is expected to achieve in your lordships opinion? Which players in his position also taken in his draft year do you think are the benchmark he should be aiming to get to?

You conveniently leave out the bit where I clearly say I’m not writing him off because it doesn’t suit your narrative.
Then you throw up convoluted stats trying to infer he’s the difference between winning and losing if he gets over 20 disposals. Are you actually all there? Or just totally delusional? Or both?
As for which player is the benchmark, how about the player Brisbane picked one ahead of Brown? Playing regular seniors although you probably don’t know who he is because you don’t watch games, you read stats.
Put that one in your pipe and smoke it your holiness.
And go troll someone else.

 

[BillyJean17]

I don't think he is anything like Grimes as a player, not sure why the comparison is even being made.

What we shouldn't do is rewrite history. Grimes spent the first year playing for Coburg reserves, at Coburg vfl and out with an eye injury. He played his first game in his 2nd season and did well but was initially known as a negating spoiler. In fact from memory he had some record number of spoils early on.

Brown has time and has hardly been on the park. I suspect we will see him at AFL level this year at some stage

I wouldn’t have used him as a comparison either , brown seems more offensive like vlas , I’m hoping youngy can be a grimes type

 

[BillyJean17]

You conveniently leave out the bit where I clearly say I’m not writing him off because it doesn’t suit your narrative.
Then you throw up convoluted stats trying to infer he’s the difference between winning and losing if he gets over 20 disposals. Are you actually all there? Or just totally delusional? Or both?
As for which player is the benchmark, how about the player Brisbane picked one ahead of Brown? Playing regular seniors although you probably don’t know who he is because you don’t watch games, you read stats.
Put that one in your pipe and smoke it your holiness.
And go troll someone else.

What about granger barras how’s he going

 

[Tigers of Old]

I too think he's looked a bit lackadaisical in his approach in the games I've seen.
Unlikely to play a senior game in his first two seasons.
Next year the heat will be on a little more. We need him to come on.

 

[Dont Argue]

What about granger barras how’s he going

Pick 6 in the 2020 draft.
Looks a bust.
What’s your point?

 

[123cups]

I haven’t seen anything other than a smooth kicking action to suggest he’ll make it.
Tresize and Brindley shown way more but aren’t highly prized draft recruits and aren’t pretty by foot. Perhaps even scrappy. But if their names were Brown, we’d be in raptures.
In other words, we’re giving Brown far too much allowances for sub standard performances.
And please don’t mention his injury. He’s been back long enough to get match fit.
I’d love to know who he played on yesterday. 14 disposals including most of the kick outs is simply not good enough at VFL level.
I’m putting him under the microscope but not writing him off. But he’d want to produce soon.

Specifically, which aspect(s) of his game are you criticising? Is it just quantity of disposals? If so, quantity of disposals alone usually isn't important enough to interpret as requiring special attention or else.

I agree that unpretty kicks are generally underrated in the draft, as intuitively I'd expect a pretty kicking action to be one of the more likely traits to result in biased judgment. However, recruiting has progressed in leaps and bounds over the past decade, so maybe that's no longer a potential thing? At the very least, I'd expect that gap between real value and perceived value to decrease over time. Kids from the 2021 draft are less likely to be subject to 'pretty kicking bias' compared to kids from say the 2011 draft.

So, I'm not sure if there's an argument to be made that alarm bells should be ringing.

 

[Dont Argue]

Specifically, which aspect(s) of his game are you criticising? Is it just quantity of disposals? If so, quantity of disposals alone usually isn't important enough to interpret as requiring special attention or else.

I agree that unpretty kicks are generally underrated in the draft, as intuitively I'd expect a pretty kicking action to be one of the more likely traits to result in biased judgment. However, recruiting has progressed in leaps and bounds over the past decade, so maybe that's no longer a potential thing? At the very least, I'd expect that gap between real value and perceived value to decrease over time. Kids from the 2021 draft are less likely to be subject to 'pretty kicking bias' compared to kids from say the 2011 draft.

So, I'm not sure if there's an argument to be made that alarm bells should be ringing.

From everything I read of him from draft analysts and junior football experts in his draft year, Brown was touted as an intercept, rebounding defender with a great leap and good athletic ability.
Think we all assumed we reached for him because we thought he had Vlastuin type traits.
So far we haven’t really seen any evidence of his aerial ability.
He also doesn’t appear to be a running, rebounding defender, in the Short/Rioli mould. Lacks the explosive pace.
So is he purely a lock down back pocket defender with a sweet boot?
This is my concern, coupled with low possession rate and lack of spirited approach towards the contest, I’m not sure what type of player we’ve got

 

[123cups]

From everything I read of him from draft analysts and junior football experts in his draft year, Brown was touted as an intercept, rebounding defender with a great leap and good athletic ability.
Think we all assumed we reached for him because we thought he had Vlastuin type traits.
So far we haven’t really seen any evidence of his aerial ability.
He also doesn’t appear to be a running, rebounding defender, in the Short/Rioli mould. Lacks the explosive pace.
So is he purely a lock down back pocket defender with a sweet boot?
This is my concern, coupled with low possession rate and lack of spirited approach towards the contes, I’m not sure what type of player we’ve got

Vlastuin isn't explosive, nor a high possession player.

If Brown can intercept like Flossy, then he won't need to be a running, rebounding defender like Short/Rioli, so it sounds like intercept marking is the aspect of his game you'd like to see improve.

If so, intercept marking is an aspect of someone's game that will likely improve greatly as their body fills out. It would make sense for such a player to appear less impressive early in his career.

 

[Sintiger]

At the moment the players he reminds me of is the 100 & 1000's early picks we have wasted on kids that aren't worthy of those high picks.
Imagine Holmes on the wing on the G. No more Flappers, marking and beautiful kicks but we decided we just hand him over to Geelong.

I had no idea you felt that way about Holmes and Brown. Have to posted about that before because I am not sure I have seen it ?

 

[Sintiger]

From everything I read of him from draft analysts and junior football experts in his draft year, Brown was touted as an intercept, rebounding defender with a great leap and good athletic ability.
Think we all assumed we reached for him because we thought he had Vlastuin type traits.
So far we haven’t really seen any evidence of his aerial ability

Last year in the vfl his aerial ability showed out a few times, can certainly take a clunk.
We haven’t seen it since he came back. Maybe the thumb injury has something to do with that, not sure.

 

[spook]

We've seen what Sam Banks, an aristocrat at VFA level, can do in 3 games of AFL. Classy, smart, has risen to the contest side. Too good for the VFA even before dominating it. Better in the bigs.

Brown will be too.

 

[fastin bulbous]

I thought brown showed a bit in the pre season games. Had presence.

 

[Mr Brightside]

I haven’t seen anything other than a smooth kicking action to suggest he’ll make it.
Tresize and Brindley shown way more but aren’t highly prized draft recruits and aren’t pretty by foot. Perhaps even scrappy. But if their names were Brown, we’d be in raptures.
In other words, we’re giving Brown far too much allowances for sub standard performances.
And please don’t mention his injury. He’s been back long enough to get match fit.
I’d love to know who he played on yesterday. 14 disposals including most of the kick outs is simply not good enough at VFL level.
I’m putting him under the microscope but not writing him off. But he’d want to produce soon.

Will disagree on this one DA .

In his first pre season he showed plenty in his game, was probably the most likely looking outside of Gibcus .

Id expect him to have been better on the weekend , however his played games the club have had him in their bests since his return.

Injury can always be a reason for a player not been at their best , it’s not all about fitness, other factors such as touch, confidence in the body, confidence in the game plan and teammates , yes his game on the weekend wasn’t outstanding however it wasnt terrible either, maybe he could be afforded the luxury of running through the midfield unattended to get some easy ball.

His intensity is my only querie

 

[Feeling Tigerish]

His intensity is my only querie

That statment alone, is a career killer. Intensity is an absolute must in my opinion.

 

[HKTigerB]

At the ground, his leadership was noticeable. Having met him he comes across as a leader as well. He has grown as well and not filled out yet. Standing next to Kaelan and Biggie, he's closer in them in height than I had previously thought.

He played higher up the ground on Saturday for the first 3 quarters. Went back in the last.