We took Balta in the same draft, in your view should we have taken 2 KPDs that draft?
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Welcome to Tigerland - Tim Taranto
- Thread starter mad_tiggy911
- Start date
Balta is a premiership player. Neither has really shown though they are as comfortable playing on a good small forward as they are a 196cm marking forward, or a 190cm strong medium forward. That is what a Dylan Grimes replacement would do.
Semantics, the assumption was always the pick would be a mid to late teens pick, that is far from guaranteed, a top 10 pick still on the line and judging by our start things not looking so rosy.
Been a great discussion over the past few pages.
In these very early stages, it is looking like we have made the classic list management error of overestimating how close we were to contending.
Bringing Taranto and Hopper in meant our benchmark was getting good looks at flags in the short term, over the next three years we are going to see the loss or decline of some super players and it is very hard to see us replacing them on that timeframe, so it's likely the next three years are our best shot.
To justify bringing those guys in we need a couple of top four finishes in those three years, to give us a real shot at a flag or two.
The problem with the deal that I see is if it transpires that we aren't good enough now, then we likely aren't in the next two years either and will need to build up again over the next 2-3 drafts, largely because we have few picks this year.
Once we get through that stage to the start of the 2027 season when we might expect to contend again, Taranto and Hopper will be 29 and 28 respectively. For bash and crash midfielders, that's twilight years.
I'm not critical of our decisions by any means. Premierships are bloody hard to win and if you think you can win one I reckon you go your hardest and if it means eating *smile* for a few years afterwards then so be it.
In these very early stages, it is looking like we have made the classic list management error of overestimating how close we were to contending.
Bringing Taranto and Hopper in meant our benchmark was getting good looks at flags in the short term, over the next three years we are going to see the loss or decline of some super players and it is very hard to see us replacing them on that timeframe, so it's likely the next three years are our best shot.
To justify bringing those guys in we need a couple of top four finishes in those three years, to give us a real shot at a flag or two.
The problem with the deal that I see is if it transpires that we aren't good enough now, then we likely aren't in the next two years either and will need to build up again over the next 2-3 drafts, largely because we have few picks this year.
Once we get through that stage to the start of the 2027 season when we might expect to contend again, Taranto and Hopper will be 29 and 28 respectively. For bash and crash midfielders, that's twilight years.
I'm not critical of our decisions by any means. Premierships are bloody hard to win and if you think you can win one I reckon you go your hardest and if it means eating *smile* for a few years afterwards then so be it.
Yes! Balta is a swingman, can play on the ball, up forward or in defence. At this stage he's looking more comfortable as a CHB but cultivating a forward talent takes time.
Fair call on CCJ. But if you peg him as a failed tweener then Williams is surely in the gun for the same. I can’t see why Keeler isn’t in the same boat either. But you compare him to Riewoldt so I’ll watch with interest. I can’t remember Jack playing a tweener ruck/fwd role in his junior days. He was a forward or bust from memory but happy to stand corrected. As a tall he’ll be quite raw so won’t be getting senior games, but I wonder what role he’s playing for the Saints?
Are we now comparing Cowan to Vlastuin or Doc? I’m confused. He doesn’t project as either type but you are closer to him than I am. Is he a Doc clone? What an absolute gem the blues got if they picked up a Doc clone at pick 30 odd. If that’s the case there will be a lot of red faces from recruiters from many clubs, not just Richmond. I wonder what they missed.
You also quote Goaters DE which looks impressive as a % but fail to mention he’s averages 13 possessions at 11m gained per possie. Of course his efficiency is excellent. Stats can weave many stories.
Johnson I’ve seen nothing of in the league. How’s he gone at the level? I can’t see his DE? Has he played a game yet?
But I’m not really sure why you are bringing these two up. Are you bagging the Gibcus pick? Or Brown? Or both?
Out of interest, where did Gibcus, MJ, Goater and Brown sit in your rankings pre draft last year?
Thoroughly enjoying this discussion, but I’m genuinely curious as to why you rank these particular players so high.
Here's the rub with Ryan, he's in that category of being too tall for a 60 goal forward. Has there ever been a 206cm gun forward? Stafford was tall, in that range but never a player you structure a forward line around, more the opportunist for the long bomb. Do people envisage a bigger version of Hawkins perhaps? Does Ryan become our ruck & does he have the aerobic capacity to run with elite endurance athletes? The best I can come up with is Rory Lobb looking purely at height alone, Ryan a thicker set so probably more of a threat isolated in the goal square.
Paul Salmon says hello, but thats about it. He"s actually the type of player Ryan should aspire too. Averaged 2.5 goals a game Essendumb and did a reasonable share of the ruck work.
How tall is Luke Darcy’s son? I thought the Dogs were grooming him as a key forward.
I think you are getting preoccupied with playing styles instead of seeing the bigger picture, good kicks like Cowan don't grow on trees, he's a natural footballer and a leader, I actually find it perplexing that kicking skill gets second class billing these days, his defensive qualities are fine for a half back flank, I don't see him as a downgrade on the likes of Vlastuin.
As for Goater's kicking, absolutely no drama, storm in an internet teacup.
Johnson just beginning his journey but by no means a poor kick, more of a weapon if anything. Both Goater & Johnson were in my top 10 given their height and kicking skill. Plenty of upside for midfield but a solid floor for a lesser role on the field.
Gibcus was also in my top 10, no issues with the pick, enough athleticism for a key forward role if he sorts out his kicking. That will make or break Josh as a truly elite talent. Brown was ranked at 27 from memory, limited upside compared to the others.
Thanks for the reply.
Not sure where you are stating there are qs on Goaters kicking. My statement was the he had 11m gained per possie at the top level which skews a very high disposal efficiency. It actually makes the percentage moot. Let’s see how he progresses but a low disposal rate and lack of long kicking suggests he may not be built for a midfield stint, or be that line breaking half back.
Let’s see how he progresses before pinning him a replacement for one of our aging stars.
As for MJ, the big knock on him was winning contested ball from memory. Also talk of a case of being a mummy’s boy in that he didn’t want to leave WA. Imagine MJ in tiger colours playing out of punt road not going in and getting his own ball. He’d be behind even your whipping boy Dow for a crack in the middle with the emphasis the coach has on the contest. We’ve seen it all before with Patrick Naish. Then at the end of this year he goes home for no return.
Absolute nightmare.
Let’s see how he goes getting a run this year. I’m hoping he’s worked on his knocks from his junior days but until he shows at the level he has, then I can’t say any different.
Brown is a strange one for me.
On the night I was hoping we picked either MJ or Sonsie and was disappointed.
While he has had a run of injury, I haven’t seen anything to suggest he will be a player.
It’s the same lense I put on MJ. Until he shows something, then my view stays as is. And I’m consistent with this with all the guys we are talking about, otherwise we show our absolute bias in wishing for our players we wanted being better than they actually are.
Sonsie on the other hand I think will have recruiters scratching their heads on why they missed him from mid first round onwards to his end draft position.
Leysy does agree he will be a ruck when he gets to about 27. And what a ruck he will be.
In the meantime we can enjoy the ride of watching this talent grow.
Whaaattttttttt!!!
You think Cowan at a minimum gets to Nick Vlastuin levels?
To do so, he'll need to be one of the hardest, most skillful, cleanest, big game and lets face it elite medium backs to set foot on a field in the next decade.
Wow. Can we bookmark this thread.
Cowan looks good but Vlastuin is a high bar.Whaaattttttttt!!!
You think Cowan at a minimum gets to Nick Vlastuin levels?
To do so, he'll need to be one of the hardest, most skillful, cleanest, big game and lets face it elite medium backs to set foot on a field in the next decade.
Wow. Can we bookmark this thread.
I understand we have ageing stars and that to contend we need to get players who can become the sort of players you build a successful team around.
What I don't get is the notion that we are going to get them through the draft unless we fall a long way down the ladder for a number of years. If we choose the road of going all in on the draft, it is a lottery how a young player ends up anyway, and we simply don't have access to the picks we had when Richmond was a complete basket case.
Personally I don't want Richmond to go back to being a basket case so the draft is not going to be a complete answer.
A combination of draft picks and trading is what can keep us competing for finals and hopefully flags.
You want quality, you have to pay, and that means first round draft picks. You want mediocrity or players at the end of their careers then you can pay in later draft picks.
Getting Tarranto and Hopper was a coup, they are quality players and we paid the going rate.
DS
What I don't get is the notion that we are going to get them through the draft unless we fall a long way down the ladder for a number of years. If we choose the road of going all in on the draft, it is a lottery how a young player ends up anyway, and we simply don't have access to the picks we had when Richmond was a complete basket case.
Personally I don't want Richmond to go back to being a basket case so the draft is not going to be a complete answer.
A combination of draft picks and trading is what can keep us competing for finals and hopefully flags.
You want quality, you have to pay, and that means first round draft picks. You want mediocrity or players at the end of their careers then you can pay in later draft picks.
Getting Tarranto and Hopper was a coup, they are quality players and we paid the going rate.
DS
So which emerging back flankers have taken your eye Leysy? I don't see too many with Cowan's kicking skill. I won't ever downplay Vlastuin's achievements either, I'm talking about replacing the old with the new.Whaaattttttttt!!!
You think Cowan at a minimum gets to Nick Vlastuin levels?
To do so, he'll need to be one of the hardest, most skillful, cleanest, big game and lets face it elite medium backs to set foot on a field in the next decade.
Wow. Can we bookmark this thread.
It is high, Cowan probably never a triple premiership player but he's a good chance to be part of a successful side, good kicks never go out of fashion funnily enough. Was Vlastuin the best flanker of the era in your opinion?
