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Welcome to the Tigers Jacob Hopper
- Thread starter tigerman
- Start date
I fthat is the case then we don't need to trade Soldo.
1 and 2 should be enough
I thought we were talking about salary dumping. When is a salary dump a salary dump. That sort of thing.
Maybe you could get back to that?
As for the asking price for Hopper his sale is a salary dump evidently caused by GWS’s TPP problem and we are entitled to measure our offer accordingly, and offer less than otherwise.
GWS and yourself are saying it is not. Just a casual chat over the future of one of GWS’s best players. (And that has a special meaning giving that clubs access to such a large number of 1st round picks)
But here we are with GWS wanting to sell off one of the few 1st rounders they have had a success with.. Now why would a team with so many advantages and a history of so few successes want to give away one of their best players.
Ditto Taranto.
You interpret it any way you like. Two of their best ever Mmm! No pressure there and it couldn’t be a salary dump because Jayson said so.
My position has been pretty consistent.
In no circumstance should we ever contemplate selling a future 1st.
Future 2nd 3rd OK but the value of a future 1st is so variable and the cost of a miss is so great that any club in such a bind should always be looking for an alternative.
We may not get there but the longer it takes the better, as far as I am concerned.
I am with you. In any negotiation its best to wait until the deadline. The Japanese Businessmen used to handle negotiations with Americans by first finding out when their departing flights were. If we walk away, we lose nothing. However, GWS have a player that does not want to be there.
If we walk away, we lose credibility with the player and future players. Being 'good to deal with' is another way of letting players know that if you stick your head out - particularly if contracted and not a FA - and tell your club you want out to the Tigers, we will get you there.
Then your position is wrong. You should NEVER have a one fits all policy and therefore never say you won't do something like trade a future 1st.
Will Taranto by himself add enough to take us to a premiership, probably not is my thinking, but Taranto and Hopper may just do that. Our future 1st won't affect 2023 at all (Lynch, Dusty, etc all 1 year older, Cotch and Jack will be gone before he is through the door), and then will he effect much in 2024, probably not.
We have assessed our list (and I agree with the assessment) that we have a strong list, but we need to improve our midfield if we want to go for another premiership with this group. By the time our 2023 draftees come through, the older players in our list will be close to done or already done. Think of it like this, our 2023 draftees will only really start to provide really good games from 2025 onwards *we may get a few in 2024 but unlikely that many), so who drops off our list by 2025 and those that are still there, how old will they be??
Jack / Cotch / Tarrant - Gone after 2023
Dusty - Almost 34 at the start of 2025 season
Grimes - contracted to end of 2023, at best stays 1 more year - gone before 2025
Pickett - Will be 33 at the start of 2025 season
Prestia / Lynch - will turn 33 during the 2025 season
Broad - turns 32 at the start of the 2025 season
Thats 9 of our current best 22 that will either be gone, or likely on their last footballing legs at the start of the 2025 season.
Normally I would agree that we shouldn't trade a future 1st rounder, but in the circumstances its our best chance of grabbing another flag with this group over the next 2 years, which is why you can't have a hard and fast rule around trading future 1sts, as certain circumstances arise where it is the best scenario for the footy club.
Just going back on salary dumps, a $350k saving to your TPP for 1 season IMO doesn't constitute as a salary dump, thats list management.
Sorry not even sure what you meant by that post.
What do you mean that I haven't properly stated it? Stated what?
Will it be worse than the Prestia melts do you reckon ?Leysy's logging on to read the melts once this trade goes down.
I agree in principle, but if they are being totally unreasonable you have to draw the line somewhere. If they wanted F1, 31 and Sonz as a final offer, take it or leave it, would you walk or agree to it to save credibility?
What I worry about though that traded out our next years F1 or F2, we will be in a world of pain in 2-3 years time.
I look at our VFL side and the players that will retire after 23, 24 and 25.
Without more draftees coming in we may be cellar dwellers and will have huge salaries tied up with Taranto & possibly Hopper.
I know our record of finding gems in the rookie, PSD and maybe MSD we are going to be thin?
There will be players in the VFL side who we all hope that more than 50% of those kids translate to AFL players and then we need to have draftees developing in our VFL program to take over our next tier of players who are in the 20-24 age group now.
Are we going to keep trading our picks for established players, other sides youngsters or mature aged players to fill an age gap that could develop?
Everything is a fine balancing act.
Going all out to chase that 14 th flag in the next two years May come at a cost in more ways than one.
I look at our VFL side and the players that will retire after 23, 24 and 25.
Without more draftees coming in we may be cellar dwellers and will have huge salaries tied up with Taranto & possibly Hopper.
I know our record of finding gems in the rookie, PSD and maybe MSD we are going to be thin?
There will be players in the VFL side who we all hope that more than 50% of those kids translate to AFL players and then we need to have draftees developing in our VFL program to take over our next tier of players who are in the 20-24 age group now.
Are we going to keep trading our picks for established players, other sides youngsters or mature aged players to fill an age gap that could develop?
Everything is a fine balancing act.
Going all out to chase that 14 th flag in the next two years May come at a cost in more ways than one.
We have a genuine chance to win a premiership in the next 2 years
We must go for it
We must go for it
Exactly. And people are worrying about what happens in 5 years time.
FFS in 5 year time we won’t have Martin Lynch Prestia Jack Cotchin Grimes Nank etc.
The time to strike is now.
In case people forget we are in the business of winning premierships.
I share your concerns but if we don’t get Hopper in I reckon our midfield doesn’t bat deep enough for the Tiges to win another premiership with this playing group.
As Poshman stated whoever we pickup with next years picks will not impact on any near term premierships.
The cost is the cost.
My error that post 1511 was wrongly sent and Ihave deleted it.
Thanks for your thoughts Posh.
We clearly don't agree.
As I see it you can call it a cash dump or a fire sale or whatever you wish but GWS are engaged in a sale of assets, which they would have preferred to avoid.
Their decisions turn not on the lack of quality of the players in question, but on the impact the getting rid of each of Bruhn, Hopper and Taranto will have on their TPP.
Hopper would be a great pick up but in my opinion he is not worth us trading into a position where we will have no DRAFT picks to speak of over the next two seasons. Instead we should offer Soldo, if he is agreeable, plus his salary x 2 years, plus pick 31 and a future 2nd. If GWS refuse that offer, they would be left to their own devices and we should inform Hopper of our intent to offer an enhanced contract from season 2024, and ask him to see out his contract and come to us then as a free agent.
We would then get to keep our future 1st, 31 and Soldo.
Thanks for your thoughts Posh.
We clearly don't agree.
As I see it you can call it a cash dump or a fire sale or whatever you wish but GWS are engaged in a sale of assets, which they would have preferred to avoid.
Their decisions turn not on the lack of quality of the players in question, but on the impact the getting rid of each of Bruhn, Hopper and Taranto will have on their TPP.
Hopper would be a great pick up but in my opinion he is not worth us trading into a position where we will have no DRAFT picks to speak of over the next two seasons. Instead we should offer Soldo, if he is agreeable, plus his salary x 2 years, plus pick 31 and a future 2nd. If GWS refuse that offer, they would be left to their own devices and we should inform Hopper of our intent to offer an enhanced contract from season 2024, and ask him to see out his contract and come to us then as a free agent.
We would then get to keep our future 1st, 31 and Soldo.
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