It is a salary dump. He is under contract. They look like releasing him from that contract. They are doing so because the believe they can use the money more efficiently elsewhere, or because they know they must sacrifice him because they are facing a TPP limit they cannot otherwise satisfy.
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Welcome to the Tigers Jacob Hopper
- Thread starter tigerman
- Start date
So you know this as a fact or are you just guessing ?? I get annoyed with people who write things like this when they have no more knowledge than the rest of us but act like they know it all.
I wonder if we can trade our Pick 31 down?
Lets say we approach Gold Coast , I'll hazard a guess they know their increased list size will be pulled back this year (even if it hasn't been officially stated yet by the AFL) as they have been trading way out of this draft.
How about we give them Pick 31 for 45,46 and 56 (we know they haven't really valued draft picks in this draft).
Then trade F1, 45 and Soldo for Hopper and 61 and 63. In terms of points value, if you value Soldo at say Pick 35, this generates 1,734 points or around Pick 6. I value Hopper around Pick 10, so thats the premium we have to pay for not having a strong enough first pick. We did the same for Taranto, probably worth around a Pick 8 in isolation, but we traded a points value of Pick 4.
This would leave us with 46, 56, 61 and 63 for this draft. Potentially could trade with Brisbane or Essendon to get these picks slightly higher.
Without trading another player, I don't see how we get Hopper without trading F1, 31 and Soldo, its just what we get back that's important. Involving other clubs in pick swaps could well be the path to getting this over the line.
Lets say we approach Gold Coast , I'll hazard a guess they know their increased list size will be pulled back this year (even if it hasn't been officially stated yet by the AFL) as they have been trading way out of this draft.
How about we give them Pick 31 for 45,46 and 56 (we know they haven't really valued draft picks in this draft).
Then trade F1, 45 and Soldo for Hopper and 61 and 63. In terms of points value, if you value Soldo at say Pick 35, this generates 1,734 points or around Pick 6. I value Hopper around Pick 10, so thats the premium we have to pay for not having a strong enough first pick. We did the same for Taranto, probably worth around a Pick 8 in isolation, but we traded a points value of Pick 4.
This would leave us with 46, 56, 61 and 63 for this draft. Potentially could trade with Brisbane or Essendon to get these picks slightly higher.
Without trading another player, I don't see how we get Hopper without trading F1, 31 and Soldo, its just what we get back that's important. Involving other clubs in pick swaps could well be the path to getting this over the line.
I wouldn't be surprised if these conversations are occurring in parallel.
We all know this because GWS have indicated a willingness to let him go despite the fact that he was a 1st round pick who has lived up to expectations and is widely considered to be within their best 6-8 players, AND he is on a high salary which the RFC have had to offer to meet, or better, before it can expect him to indicate a wish to be traded, which he has done.
GWS don’t want to give up such a player unless there is a reason.
a) Serious career threatening injury? Not that we know of.
b) Nearing the limit of TPP and his present salary or next salary does or is likely to put too much pressure on, if he stays at the club? Very possibly GWS is reputed to have 5-6 (other) players on salaries near $1,000,000 pa!
c) Want to reinvest his salary in a different sort of player, a KPP or Ruck or whatever?
Possibly, they have quite a bit invested in midfielders.
My point is that b) and c) amount to an attempt to get the player off the list to ensure that his money is retained for another purpose.
It is a salary dumping exercise no matter how you look at it.
Its 1 year, its not a major salary dump. I think you are misinterpreting what is happening. I think yes they see the benefits of moving Hopper on as it helps their list balance which is out of whack, but this isn't a major salary dump as he's only contracted for 1 more year.
Exactly, it was Hopper that is driving the trade it is completely different from the Bowes situation. Sure GWS will benefit from his salary coming off the books but that is the same with any trade. Richmond will get some cap relief if Soldo goes.
Posh he is best 6-8. What happens in one more year? They will allow us to take him and get a pick after their 1st or at the end of the 1st round, and will have a player to pay a rookie wage too, as against the $600,000 to $700,000 they would have had to pay to keep him.
Although he is one of their best players GWS are deliberately letting him go now to cause that result.
I don’t think I ever read or heard GWS saying they were disappointed that Hopper wants out. It is a salary dump and GWS chose to let T&H go as they were the easiest to move. What normal club would allow 2 players of their abilities go in one off season??
Look at it in perspective- our F1 could be 18. How much more is Hopper worth compared to Bruhn?
Exactly, he either leaves this year or next. If they can get better value this year compared to what he provides in season and then a likely end of 1st next year then they will sell this year, otherwise they hold. So therefore we need to find a package that compensates them for at least the value they get next year PLUS a premium for the 22 games of next year (including essentially a results premium).
Whether he's best 6-8 is relevant but in a different way to what you think it is, it means we have to provide value to them.
I think you've come in with the wrong interpretation of the scenario and are now annoyed that we are paying "overs" when we probably aren't but you came in with unrealistic expectations.
They have a new coach. I suspect they have finally realised that their mids are all the same, and that they need to change with the times and get more flexibility and different types in their midfield.
They have prioritised keeping Green, Coniglio, Kelly, Perryman and Callaghan as being their main mids next year (I reckon they'd also look at pushing Toby Greene more into the midfield too, I would) and they have determined that TT and JH will bring them the best value. Green is their young superstar, Cogs and Kelly on too much money, Perryman they wouldn't get huge value from and Callaghan is going into his 2nd year. These 2 were the most disposable, hence why they have been open to moving them on, but they don't appear to be salary dumps. I mean whats Hopper on with them, maybe $550k-$600k. Bringing in even a 1st round draftee to replace him which cost $200k so max they are saving is $350-400k, hardly much to write home about. Compare that to the likes of Bowes, saving a net $600k for getting rid of a much worse player, and theres your difference right there.
Interesting to read this.
Maybe the Giants aren't ascribing much value to Pick 31 as they already have 5 picks in the first 19 so maybe its not adding a lot of value to the overall trade value for them. I suspect we might be 1 of those looking at this, we might get better overall value in the trade by looking at using our 2nd next year instead of our 2nd this year.
You'd think with the number of picks we took last year (5 in 30) the AFL would likely approve this sort of move by us.
Puts us out of the first 2 rounds next year but leaves us with Pick 31 this year, maybe we can get Lemmey with that pick.
Maybe the Giants aren't ascribing much value to Pick 31 as they already have 5 picks in the first 19 so maybe its not adding a lot of value to the overall trade value for them. I suspect we might be 1 of those looking at this, we might get better overall value in the trade by looking at using our 2nd next year instead of our 2nd this year.
You'd think with the number of picks we took last year (5 in 30) the AFL would likely approve this sort of move by us.
Puts us out of the first 2 rounds next year but leaves us with Pick 31 this year, maybe we can get Lemmey with that pick.
GWS have a few issues to sort out. The focus on the salary dump is just one aspect but there are others:
1. they are paying guys like Kelly big $. Not sure exactly how many but suspect it is 4 or 5 on near $1m a season
2. They have a number of high draft picks coming through. Guys like Callagan last year that they need to get game time into and pay accordingly
3. They have an over supply of inside midfielders and need to reset their football club. Too many similar style players
4. Guessing at this but new coach brings new ideas and maybe a different list structure is required to enact his game plan
GWS are making a business decision and doing the right thing by asking for the most compensation
1. they are paying guys like Kelly big $. Not sure exactly how many but suspect it is 4 or 5 on near $1m a season
2. They have a number of high draft picks coming through. Guys like Callagan last year that they need to get game time into and pay accordingly
3. They have an over supply of inside midfielders and need to reset their football club. Too many similar style players
4. Guessing at this but new coach brings new ideas and maybe a different list structure is required to enact his game plan
GWS are making a business decision and doing the right thing by asking for the most compensation
GWS might as well get pick lolnorf's pick 1 and then get the Hopper deal done!! Bloody frustrating this wait.
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