You dont win a B&F if you dont display the above attributes. You have completely mis-read this one BH.
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Welcome to the Tigers Jacob Hopper
- Thread starter tigerman
- Start date
I’m pretty keen for us to keep hold of 30 in any deal. If we gave up 12, 19 + F1 and got a pick in the 50’s back it would give us a similar hand to 2016 when we picked up Bolton and Graham.
But we can just summarily dismiss Crouch who won a B&F in a grand final year & Mitchell who won a Brownlow. I never said Taranto is a poor footballer but I object to wiping out 2 years of draft picks to get him - big difference.
You said Jackson built a premiership team off picks in the 6-30 range, when in reality about 4 of our top 13 players (I omitted Lambert) in our premiership years (so far) were picked in that range.
Our premierships teams show you need to utilise all avenues to build a team, including paying a high price to trade in the right players.
Hopper is not worth 2 first and we need to be smart on the table considering gws issues with the cap. PIck 19 and a fringe player for me.
My issue is why we don't get creative and put Short or Graham on the table or both. Both are replaceable for me atleast they would compensate for the loss of picks in trades for Taranto and Hopper.
My issue is why we don't get creative and put Short or Graham on the table or both. Both are replaceable for me atleast they would compensate for the loss of picks in trades for Taranto and Hopper.
For sure GWS should be trying to get the best deal that they can, but they got themselves into the salary cap issues that they are now facing.
They need to move players on, a case could be made that Taranto and Hopper are helping them out.
They don't have to be a soft touch, but for future dealings with players, clubs and managers it's in their interests to try and accomodate Taranto and Hopper's request.
They need to move players on, a case could be made that Taranto and Hopper are helping them out.
They don't have to be a soft touch, but for future dealings with players, clubs and managers it's in their interests to try and accomodate Taranto and Hopper's request.
I think you draft / trade based upon availability to top end draft picks.
Our dynasty was built off drafting from the top of the draft, because we were crap.
2006 - Jack (8), Shedda (26)
2007 - Cotch (2), Rance (18)
2009 - Martin (3), Astbury (35). Grimes (PSD - 2)
2010 - Houli (PSD - 3)
2011 - Ellis (15)
2012 - Vlastuin (9), McIntosh (31)
Thats 11 of our premiership 22 from 2017. They keys to that were obviously Jack, Cotch and Martin. We don't do any of 2017 without those top 10 picks. Last year was the 1st draft we had a top 10 pick since 2016 (when we traded it for Prestia who was also key in our premiership).
With either just kick the can down the road, until all our stars retire and we become crap again and can then access those top 10 picks, or we get creative.
IMO our current list has been built backwards from what we did with those dynasty years. Those years we drafted at the top end, then chipped away with trades and lower end draft picks to generate that list that won us 3 flags.
We've not redrafted those kids that are and will be the cream around the cake but not the cake itself. We aren't crap enough to draft the cake again so we need to recruit them in another way, and I think thats what we are trying to do right now.
Our dynasty was built off drafting from the top of the draft, because we were crap.
2006 - Jack (8), Shedda (26)
2007 - Cotch (2), Rance (18)
2009 - Martin (3), Astbury (35). Grimes (PSD - 2)
2010 - Houli (PSD - 3)
2011 - Ellis (15)
2012 - Vlastuin (9), McIntosh (31)
Thats 11 of our premiership 22 from 2017. They keys to that were obviously Jack, Cotch and Martin. We don't do any of 2017 without those top 10 picks. Last year was the 1st draft we had a top 10 pick since 2016 (when we traded it for Prestia who was also key in our premiership).
With either just kick the can down the road, until all our stars retire and we become crap again and can then access those top 10 picks, or we get creative.
IMO our current list has been built backwards from what we did with those dynasty years. Those years we drafted at the top end, then chipped away with trades and lower end draft picks to generate that list that won us 3 flags.
We've not redrafted those kids that are and will be the cream around the cake but not the cake itself. We aren't crap enough to draft the cake again so we need to recruit them in another way, and I think thats what we are trying to do right now.
If he’s no good then we don’t trade for him at all. Don’t understand the argument Hopper isn’t good enough but then we throw Short or Graham in the table to get the deal done
I never said is not good enough , but both Short and Graham are replaceable and have currency and we can get some picks.
GWS will go over their Salary cap if they keep Hopper. We hold the whip handle in any negotiation. Play it cool drag it out...they will fold that easy we will make out like bandits. or they negotiate in good faith.
Yes true, however we don't win a single flag without Prestia, Nankervis and to a lesser extent Caddy.
I don’t think either of them are replaceable and I’d never make them as a trade-weight for Hopper or Taranto.
Have to respect Hopper is in-contract so it’s going to take a bit more to prise him out but not those two
Both of these players are r1 plus r2 at best ,,that’s the market rate ,,,who’s offering 2 x r1 I would be asking gws , cats certainly wouldn’t
One small correction, Mr P. Jack was actually pick 13. We had 8, but gave it to Freo as part of the Polak deal and got 13 in return (Freo in turn gave it to Collingwood for Tarrant and the Pies used it on Reid). I remember hearing stories about Frank being annoyed, because he had 8 earmarked for Jack and didn’t think he’d still be there at 13. Happily for us, he was.
Alex Rance (5 x AA) & integral in our climb back up the ladder, Jack a 3 x Coleman medalist, Sheds a 300 gmaer & finals maestro, Vlastuin a leader & rock in defence - these picks were critical, there would be no domination without them. This is the nucleus along with Dusty & Cotch. I think it's worth reminding people that it's exceptionally difficult to source key forwards outside the top 15. The Lynch situation may not repeat itself, I wouldn't be banking on it. The pick of the litter from the next generation have also come from this range, Shai, Balta & Dan Rioili. Hopefully we'll be adding the names Gibcus & Sonsie to the list of genuine A grade talent.
Firstly let’s look at the age demographic. Taranto effectively still in the window to hit his prime. Mitchell and Crouch at the tail end of their careers. Mitchell will be 30 next year and Crouch will be 28.
Secondly Taranto can play a mixture of midfield and forward. The other two have no flexibility. Plus the fact they are onw paced.
That’s why you need to pay to get the likes of Taranto. No different to Carlton paying up to get Cerra etc.
First round drafts aren’t the only solution to fixing a glaring deficiency in your list. I would argue to say we are one of the best clubs to identify talent later on in the draft. We will still hold onto a couple of picks post number 30 and I have every confidence we could still have a very fruitful draft period.
I think Bully is well within his rights to question the deal. We're getting good players but it does come at a hefty price.
All trades are a gamble & so are untried draft picks.
Time will tell ultimately how it works out. Fingers crossed these lads contribute largely towards 5 or 6 years of sustained success.
All trades are a gamble & so are untried draft picks.
Time will tell ultimately how it works out. Fingers crossed these lads contribute largely towards 5 or 6 years of sustained success.
Agree. I think there is a lot of underestimating of what it will take to get this done going on.
this is GWS starting high, there will be a balance where each team will win.
But its a dump, a salary cap dump.
Its happened twice recently, Treloar and Broadie and they were left at the tip for scraps - there was no way they generated market rates, not even close.
If we walk away from the deal GWS are stuffed, well and truely. They can ask for the moon but they won’t get it. To give up 2 first rounders for either player in ludicrous and I reckon is just media speculation.
We may play fair, but it won’t be overs and it will be on our terms, not GWS’s.
I still think 3 picks under 30 this year, given the circumstances, is a bit generous - the more I am thinking about it, picks 12 and 19 maybe overs, but hell, the tigers play fair and I can see that being the end result.
Comparing Cameron to either of these two mids is also ludicrous, players like Lynch and Cameron are worth what you pay, players like Kelly, well have a beer with west coast and I reckon they will tell you what they are worth.
Both these players are good, but they ain’t in Dangerfield or Abletts league but some of the deals being bandied about seem to think they are.
Its happened twice recently, Treloar and Broadie and they were left at the tip for scraps - there was no way they generated market rates, not even close.
If we walk away from the deal GWS are stuffed, well and truely. They can ask for the moon but they won’t get it. To give up 2 first rounders for either player in ludicrous and I reckon is just media speculation.
We may play fair, but it won’t be overs and it will be on our terms, not GWS’s.
I still think 3 picks under 30 this year, given the circumstances, is a bit generous - the more I am thinking about it, picks 12 and 19 maybe overs, but hell, the tigers play fair and I can see that being the end result.
Comparing Cameron to either of these two mids is also ludicrous, players like Lynch and Cameron are worth what you pay, players like Kelly, well have a beer with west coast and I reckon they will tell you what they are worth.
Both these players are good, but they ain’t in Dangerfield or Abletts league but some of the deals being bandied about seem to think they are.
