Welcome to Richmond - Jayden Short | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Welcome to Richmond - Jayden Short

Has anyone actually ever seen Shorty hit a lead up player on the tit?
Think his kicking skills are highly overrated. He can kick long but he’s no Daniel Rioli
 
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Not sure what people are complaining about

Its not Jayden's fault the coaches are trying something new with some new inside mids coming into the team and he will be tried in other roles because he has the talent to hurt the opposition.

Im Happy to see Short as being the player that Tarranto , Hopper , Cotchin , Prestia get the ball out to for a 50-60 mtr kick into our foward line and drift up to hff and put pressure on the other teams defence with his long kicking
Top post Turk.
Short gives us something different to the rest of our midfield. He is more outside than Hops and Cotch and co, so we can play him wider

Its a positive to have such variety in the midfield group
 
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Wow! It's a slow burn, but the 'put Daniel back' faction appears to be gathering momentum! Fun to watch.

It's about the best for the team. Two short half backs and we get killed in the air by a capable side. Broady and Vloss are locks,
leaving one small half-back spot. Shorty and Bakes are good backs but ordinary in the guts. Daniel can go forward and back very well indeed.
 
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Has anyone actually ever seen Shorty hit a lead up player on the tit.
Think his kicking skills are highly overrated. He can kick long but he’s no Daniel Rioli

He runs at 75% kicking efficiency over his career so there's a fair chance he's hit the odd player by foot, yes.

For comparison Rioli went at 83% last year and has a career average of 77%, but an average metres gain of 314 last year, while Short goes at 481, so Rioli takes more short targets.
 
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He runs at 75% kicking efficiency over his career so there's a fair chance he's hit the odd player by foot, yes.

For comparison Rioli went at 83% last year and has a career average of 77%, but an average metres gain of 314 last year, while Short goes at 481, so Rioli takes more short targets.
So the stats confirm then that Rioli hits more targets and that Shorty goes long for most of his kicks.
I still maintain Rioli is a better kick.
But neither can blow a candle to Dustin Martin.
He’s just audacious
 
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So the stats confirm then that Rioli hits more targets and that Shorty goes long for most of his kicks.
I still maintain Rioli is a better kick.
But neither can blow a candle to Dustin Martin.
He’s just audacious

Not as much as that stat shows because Short gets the ball more. Metres per disposal is 24.3 (Short career) to 19.1 (Rioli 2022).

Martin's kicking efficiency is 57.3% with a metres gain average of 425.3 and a metres/disposal of 16.8.

Interestingly he commits a 'clanger' every 6.2 disposals, vs Short 7.3 and Rioli (2022) 5.7 and a turnover/disposal rate of 4.9 to Short 4.4 and Rioli 5.7 so they are very similar in that aspect. The difference would appear to be that Martin has more kicks under 40 metres that don't retain direct possession, likely the pressure clearances etc.
 
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If Tarrant is fit then he plays atleast double that
That's a big and loaded if.

What does full fitness for a slow, lumbering 34 year old look like?

Whether through form, age or fitness, I'm not pencilling him into my best 22.

Though I'm sure he'll play a role.
 
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That's a big and loaded if.

What does full fitness for a slow, lumbering 34 year old look like?

Whether through form, age or fitness, I'm not pencilling him into my best 22.

Though I'm sure he'll play a role.
Both Jack Riewoldt & Tom Hawkins are 34 years old and played 21 & 25 games last year and are a similar height/weight /age to Tarrant
although playing defence rather than foward and most people would agree its easier to play defence

Tarrant played 20 games in 2022 after arriving at the club and taking 1/3 season to adjust to the game plan
he is starting 22 this season and if he remains fit and doesnt get injuries he will play 20 games

oh and he turns 34 end of april and is 6-10 months younger than Jack & Tom
 
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Not sure I’ve ever said no one cant have a view point?
Fair enough but it is an opinion site so I am not sure what your post meant about the PRE Intelligentsia having spoken etc. Everyone has been hanging for footy!

Quiet funny reading this dissection of a Feb match simulation for Short and everything he did wrong when the poster boy Rioli barely touched leather. It’s Feb match sim but the intellectual footy folk have spoken so that’s that. Not worried about either.

Rioli is in a different boat at the moment and seems a 'lock' at HB for now. He finished the season like a Bomb at HB and I reckon they tried to lock down on him a bit on Friday.
Shorty faded later in the season as a mid in my opinion so surely can be discussed as he did struggle a bit on Friday in a match-sim. I hope he makes it as a mid but personally have Taranto, Prestia, Hopper, Sons, Ross, Graham , Shai, Dusty and Cotch ahead of him at Centre Bounces.

Anyway how did Samson Ryan go. ?! :)
 
Yeah, heard that. Seems “verse” as in going up against someone and not part of a song is here to stay. I guess they say the English language keeps devolving , sorry, evolving…..
I had to explain to a kid a while ago that the word that's being replaced is "play".
 
Not as much as that stat shows because Short gets the ball more. Metres per disposal is 24.3 (Short career) to 19.1 (Rioli 2022).

Martin's kicking efficiency is 57.3% with a metres gain average of 425.3 and a metres/disposal of 16.8.

Interestingly he commits a 'clanger' every 6.2 disposals, vs Short 7.3 and Rioli (2022) 5.7 and a turnover/disposal rate of 4.9 to Short 4.4 and Rioli 5.7 so they are very similar in that aspect. The difference would appear to be that Martin has more kicks under 40 metres that don't retain direct possession, likely the pressure clearances etc.
You missed the word given- Short get "given" the ball more. Short's kicking efficiency is also inflated because he kicks long- a long kick to a contest is effective, where Rioli might miss more targets trying to hit a dangerous 30mt kick.

There is room for both, but I expect Short to spend more time around or in front of the ball, rather than in defence.
 
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Both Jack Riewoldt & Tom Hawkins are 34 years old and played 21 & 25 games last year and are a similar height/weight /age to Tarrant
although playing defence rather than foward and most people would agree its easier to play defence

Tarrant played 20 games in 2022 after arriving at the club and taking 1/3 season to adjust to the game plan
he is starting 22 this season and if he remains fit and doesnt get injuries he will play 20 games

oh and he turns 34 end of april and is 6-10 months younger than Jack & Tom

Tarrant's been a good player, but he's not in the same conversation as Riewoldt or Hawkins.

Some players can lose their speed and leap and get by on their skill and smarts (Jack) or their strength (Hawkins).

Skills and strength and experience makes him effective, but his inability to stay with forwards on the lead is a significant limitation.

I think the idea of it being easier to play defense is that you don't need to be as skilful or creative to be a stopper. It's potentially more challenging athletically. I wouldn't play Jack in the backline at the moment.

I think he might be starting 22 in round 1 given injuries to Broad and Gibcus, but I doubt he will be by midyear.

Anyway, you reckon 20 plus, I reckon 12 or less. I guess we'll see!
 
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You missed the word given- Short get "given" the ball more.

I'm not sure if you mean that as a knock on Short or not but if so you are very wrong.

Think about how hard it is to get free when the opposition know we want you to have the ball. Everyone on the ground knows we want it in Short's hands and the opposition are actively trying to get the ball in the hands of anyone else.

Being a receiver at half back doesn't mean you just get gifted the ball anytime you feel like it, it takes hard running, intense concentration, physical commitment, courage and a connection with your team mates. It certainly isn't easy.
 
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Not as much as that stat shows because Short gets the ball more. Metres per disposal is 24.3 (Short career) to 19.1 (Rioli 2022).

Martin's kicking efficiency is 57.3% with a metres gain average of 425.3 and a metres/disposal of 16.8.

Interestingly he commits a 'clanger' every 6.2 disposals, vs Short 7.3 and Rioli (2022) 5.7 and a turnover/disposal rate of 4.9 to Short 4.4 and Rioli 5.7 so they are very similar in that aspect. The difference would appear to be that Martin has more kicks under 40 metres that don't retain direct possession, likely the pressure clearances etc.
And that’s why your use of stats are completely meaningless when they are used to suggest Dusty is the poorer contributor.
If that is not your intention what is it? You can’t have it both ways.
Use you eyes. It’s the only true indicator
 
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Not as much as that stat shows because Short gets the ball more. Metres per disposal is 24.3 (Short career) to 19.1 (Rioli 2022).

Martin's kicking efficiency is 57.3% with a metres gain average of 425.3 and a metres/disposal of 16.8.

Interestingly he commits a 'clanger' every 6.2 disposals, vs Short 7.3 and Rioli (2022) 5.7 and a turnover/disposal rate of 4.9 to Short 4.4 and Rioli 5.7 so they are very similar in that aspect. The difference would appear to be that Martin has more kicks under 40 metres that don't retain direct possession, likely the pressure clearances etc.
None of that factors in the degree of difficulty of the kick though. Dusty's forever on the slice n dice kick from an impossible angle. Most players wouldn't even consider trying them n hide behind the short n safe kick to an uncontested.
 
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Sometimes it needs to be said TM.

The bloke is a seriously elite footballer who would have 17 other clubs sitting in sewerage for a week just to watch one of his turds float past, if it meant the chance to get him.
I'm not sure if you mean that as a knock on Short or not but if so you are very wrong.

Think about how hard it is to get free when the opposition know we want you to have the ball. Everyone on the ground knows we want it in Short's hands and the opposition are actively trying to get the ball in the hands of anyone else.

Being a receiver at half back doesn't mean you just get gifted the ball anytime you feel like it, it takes hard running, intense concentration, physical commitment, courage and a connection with your team mates. It certainly isn't easy.
This is where you are wrong. Short is one of the the more over hyped kicks I can recall. I’ve posted before how low he sits in score involvements and score launches for the volume of uncontested kicks he has. It’s revealing. The opposition don’t mind him having the ball in our backline.

He’s a very good athlete with a long penetrating kick. Not necessarily accurate (granted it’s a bit like driving a golf ball, the longer you hit/kick the less accurate you will tend to be) and not necessarily a good decision maker. I prefer him working forward of centre but won’t be surprised if he’s starting on the bench a lot of games. And possibly out of the side at some stage this year.
 
Tarrant's been a good player, but he's not in the same conversation as Riewoldt or Hawkins.

Some players can lose their speed and leap and get by on their skill and smarts (Jack) or their strength (Hawkins).

Skills and strength and experience makes him effective, but his inability to stay with forwards on the lead is a significant limitation.

I think the idea of it being easier to play defense is that you don't need to be as skilful or creative to be a stopper. It's potentially more challenging athletically. I wouldn't play Jack in the backline at the moment.

I think he might be starting 22 in round 1 given injuries to Broad and Gibcus, but I doubt he will be by midyear.

Anyway, you reckon 20 plus, I reckon 12 or less. I guess we'll see!
I think your original post you said 10 games and i said if he remains fit he would play double that

Lets see how we go with that
 
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This is where you are wrong. Short is one of the the more over hyped kicks I can recall. I’ve posted before how low he sits in score involvements and score launches for the volume of uncontested kicks he has. It’s revealing. The opposition don’t mind him having the ball in our backline.

He’s a very good athlete with a long penetrating kick. Not necessarily accurate (granted it’s a bit like driving a golf ball, the longer you hit/kick the less accurate you will tend to be) and not necessarily a good decision maker. I prefer him working forward of centre but won’t be surprised if he’s starting on the bench a lot of games. And possibly out of the side at some stage this year.
It’s interesting I think both dusty and shorty make their fair share of clangers at a much higher clip than the rest of the team (outside of the recently retired).

But clearly dusty makes more stuff turn into gold and wins 1:1s than shorty so we tend to overlook his errors.

I think Short had a patch where he was
finishing really well and higher efficiency vs last year he didn’t seem to hit the scoreboard as much and made more unforced errors (to my eye and without referring to stats). Shorts’ kick penetration probably also means his errors have less negative effect because there is time for the defence to adjust.