I understand the point, I just don't agree with it. At best, it is being grossly overstated. would it have been different if he'd stayed on? We'll never know of course, but I'm extremely sceptical.
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Trent Cotchin (Merged)
- Thread starter Gordietiger
- Start date
You’re changing the narrative now. Yes I did see that. He had one stoppage clearance. 2 tackles, 1 x 1%er, 7cp (1 more than Miller) none is critiquing his application, but the mind is willing but the body is aging and he can’t get to the contest as often. Simply a fact.
probably How many times did you see Cotch standing by himself or just jogging with his hand in the air?
Ground balls are his forte as he just can’t run to it off the outlet player. If you didn’t see this happen time and time again, you weren’t watching the same game.
Over reaction. Where has Miller been proclaimed ”the messiah”. Structurally he was more important than Cotch
Of course I'm changing the narrative, its called a debate 'ol son. You are focused solely on the negative aspects of his game, I am highlighting the undeniable positives.
For me, last night and any forseeable night or day, Miller is not structurally, physically or culturally more important than Cotch. Main reason is Cotchy is a champion and was contributing, Miller is barely a depth player and was not contributing.
It was incredibly evident at the ground. We took off a tall and suddenly they destroyed us in the air that hadn't happened in the 1st 3 quarters. It's a pretty clear cut point that the structural changes impacted that.
We suddenly had 1 less tall in defence, which then stretched Young and JVR kicked 3 (he's had 0 marks in the 1st 3 quarters). So we'd have the talls float back a bit more and would then scramble the ball forward, when we had 2 forwards (whether that was Jack and Ryan or Jack and Miller) then we would keep their talls relatively busy, after Miller went off it became the May and Lever intercept show.
Everyone has worked themselves into a lather over this, not me. Maybe, maybe JVR doesn't have a purple patch to win them the game if Miller stays on. Maybe. Thats all it is, a maybe. Point is, people carrying on as if it is a certainty is ridiculous.
That’s funny young fella, you accuse me of focusing on his negatives, but yet you can’t see any, while spruiking only his positives.
He didn’t play a role another player could have, one that can actually provide defensive pressure.
No one is denying Cotch has been a champion. No one has said anything about culturally importance or physicality. But the game has almost passed him by. It’s why Taranto and Hopper were recruited. He can’t do what he used to be able. His fb opponent would just run off him at every opportunity.
Why else would Dimma be trying to find another post for him? Maybe he should have been used in the ruck and kept the structure that had us in the game.
Time waits for no man and unfortunately Cotch is human. That’s no slight on him. Just fact, his role is diminished and young legs will continually find him out.
Wtf brought this load of nonsense on ?
Its a forum I’m allowed to have my view and not get personally attacked for having one
Dont like my view Dont read it
Get a life
He's on the way out, everyone knows that, but we disagree on his current value to the team. I think you're undervaluing what he does, and we already have a heap of young players in the side, probably too many, so its not like he's keeping the kids out regardless of what you or I think of how he's going.
I actually reckon his leading by kamikazee doing is very important right now.
No I’m not undervaluing him at all. Specifically I talking about last nights game where he couldn’t run to defend his opponent.
It was obvious all game. Stark,. It is nearly embarrassing, given the player he has been.
Regardless of his willingness to put his body on the line time and time again, if he can’t run to defend and his opponents keep running off him repeatedly, he becomes a liability. When your positive plays are outweighed by your physical deficiencies, you become a liability. Similarly to Shedda last year when many were critical of the call to keep playing him.
It was obvious last season, having Cotch and Prestia playing on ball and at CBs together we lacked the defensive run. Which then put the backline under pressure, due to them both not being able to get into defence.
Do you actually believe opposition coaches would be concerned with Cotch playing forward? I don’t, I think they’ll all look to keep exploiting and running off him.
Being benevolent doesn’t help the team. The team first mantra, that our coaches and players espouse.
I find that sad as it diminishes his legacy a bit. I’d rather his legacy be that of the outstanding champion and captain we all know and love. I loved Shedda, I love Cotch. I’d love to see champions continue to play at a high level of quality. Rather than limp to the end of their careers. 300 games is a mighty achievement but a lot of champions never got there. Most don’t get the choice
You're calling him a liability? and you say you're not undervaluing him?
Nothing will diminish his legacy for me. Heaps of kids already in the side. So even if he wasn't contributing he isn't taking a young players spot, AND the swag of young players we have need some experience and old heads. Still holding his spot regardless. Still attacking the contest without fear. Even if he was shaky, deserves to get a few games to get him to 300.
Nothing will diminish his legacy for me. Heaps of kids already in the side. So even if he wasn't contributing he isn't taking a young players spot, AND the swag of young players we have need some experience and old heads. Still holding his spot regardless. Still attacking the contest without fear. Even if he was shaky, deserves to get a few games to get him to 300.
Your unreconstructed GR on steroids routine. Pretty obvious I would have thought.
Yep, playing in the forward he is. As I’ve said, his opponent runs off him at every opportunity and that gives them an outlet every time. It also causes an outnumber into our defensive half. If you or others can’t see that you must be oblivious.
He has been a champion of the game. He’s not any longer. That’s not disrespecting him, it’s just fact. His desperation and willingness for the contest is still there, but unfortunately his body doesn’t allow him to play at the level we’re accustomed to.
No doubt he’ll have his moments but they’re fewer and far between.
I will concede his experience and leadership are a strength.
But to say “even if he wasn’t contributing he isn’t taking a young kids spot” . Im sure if Cotch was injured they’d find a replacement for him. Im quite sure other players could play his position…and run to defend….accountability
Id love to see him get to 300 games. He thoroughly deserves it as a personal milestone. But after that we’ll see what happens
When asked, the club took on Cotch and Jack for another year, although it was felt they were past their best and while understanding that their performance would be inconsistent.
To this point Cotch by his standards is not going well. His strength and courage havn’t faltered but of course his speed has.
Both well and truely earned the right to ask for another season.
To this point Cotch by his standards is not going well. His strength and courage havn’t faltered but of course his speed has.
Both well and truely earned the right to ask for another season.
Not so much on this post, but you seem to be dressing opinion up as fact re: Chimper.
Yes he is on the downhill part of his career. Yes he doesn't quite have the drive from his legs he once did.
Could he have been subbed instead of Miller last night. Possibly.
But that mistake was more structural, Miller needed to stay on, but that is not Chimp related. Cumberland had 2 whole possessions after 1/4 time for example. Even the decision itself to bring Hugo on at all who had zero impact... Or where is the heat on Mansell??
Either way you are critiquing his game incorrecttly.
He has the equal 4th most pressure points in our team last night. Not in line what actually occurred.
His vision and distribution with ball in hand was also unsurpassed from anyone else on the field.
Arguably the greatest leader our club has seen wasn't the reason we got beat last night.
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Good points made. But one thing, I never blamed him for our losing this game. And regardless of him being the greatest leader in the free world, he’s as open to critiquing his game as any other player. Cardinal sin? But correct.
Dressing my opinion as fact. Please point out what I said wasn’t fact. You basically agreed with me about his leg speed using different words. If he can’t keep up with his opponent what happens?
I did make the point , structurally I thought Miller should have stayed on. Yes you could make a case for other players to be subbed off. Cumberland, I still would have left on, he can turn a game with minimal possessions, he has hurt factor, he can chase. Mansell? Who knows, wasn’t he thrown down back in the last qtr ?
But I believe Cotch couldn’t keep up with his opponent who just running off him at will. If that’s only my “opinion” I suggest you watch the replay and see how many times Cotch was left languishing while his opponent scooted off at will.
Vision and distribution? Come on mate, take the Cotch coloured glasses off for a minute. He needed to get the ball for that to happen and a qtr of his disposals were clangers. One passage of play where he and Dusty had shared several possessions in one passage of play flattered his disposal count.
While he had a couple of good linkup plays, his game wasn’t anywhere near his usual calibre.
Once again, I’m not laying the blame on him. But in my opinion Miller needed to remain in the game for structural reasons. The commonsense choice (my opinion) was for Cotch to come off. And the structure that had us in the game would still be intact.
Not change the whole dynamic from full back, ruck and forward.
The chimp was largely ineffective after qtr time. He just can’t cover the ground anymore. He’s trying as hard as ever. But he ain’t a HFF. It’s sad to watch.
Maybe he’ll hit the centre square more in the 2nd half of the year
Suggest Trent plays on a wing . Like Steele Sidebottom . Trent might have slowed down but is a very smart player in regards to anticipation of ball movement, he ain’t a forward and certainly isn’t a back man . Dimma needs to take the blinkers off for once as something that is clearly obvious he still can’t see . Go and watch Sidebottom play Dimma . Oh that’s right , Sidebottom averages about 30 disposals a game against us
Does Cotch have a motor anywhere near the capacity of Sidearse??? Cotch has played most of his career as a beast contested ball hunter, not sure he'd manage the run required for a Sidearse role.
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