Carltoon might be our saviour here. They're not getting Houston, right? But they have 12 & 14 and are rumoured to be considering swapping them for West Coast's pick 3. That would deliver us 12 or 14 for Bakes, and make getting pick 2 considerably easier.
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Trade Week - Richmond Only
- Thread starter Smoking Aces
- Start date
You are dead right about not wanting pick 3. It’s pick 2 or nothing. We know 2 picks in the top dozen will get the job done.
There will be a lot of strained relationships after this trade period. Player managers have already got their nose out of joint with Hawks and West Coast.
At the end of the day we don’t need to do anything but wait and see. The media think we need to go ahead with our fire sale. But as we know they are all idiots. If we don’t get the deal we want, Tim rings ups Shai and Danny and gives them fheir preseason programs. Whilst Craig Cameron has Dimmas foot up his arse and Mr Personality Longmuir is wondering whether he has a job at the end of next year..
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Nah, already all fell down, we just b picking through the rubble in case there's something worth salvaging.
More interesting than, but we all know nothing so don't even think anything coz somebody else knows best that some other people are constantly spruiking.
Now here is a journo who is finally talking sense:
Right player, right time? Stakes high for Freo in Bolton chase
Nathan Schmook analyses what Shai Bolton's potential arrival could mean for the Dockers
www.afl.com.au
That's a fair enough stance, daniel. Who are you after at 6 & 13?
Yeah, except at the end he throws in that 10 & 11 is 'over the top' for Shai. It really isn't.Now here is a journo who is finally talking sense:
Right player, right time? Stakes high for Freo in Bolton chase
Nathan Schmook analyses what Shai Bolton's potential arrival could mean for the Dockers
The 'middle ground'? I reckon that's linked to his erroneous belief that 10 and 11 is overs. So he's hinting at something like 10 and 11 for Shai and 20/24. Which of course is a rubbish deal for us. At worst we would get pick 30 back in that scenario. 10, 11 and 30 for Shai and 20/24. I could live with that if it helps ensure we get pick 2.Where is the common ground he talks about then
Baker and Shai for 10, 11, 18 is a possibility given how impressed Bakes supposedly was with Freo's pitch and how Matt Clarke was sleeping off a poteen hangover when Hawthorn traded pick 14.
It’s not disingenuous at all.
I realise what role he was employed to do. I was replying to the post that stated he was responsible for building a multi premiership list.
Which he wasn’t. I stated and acknowledged his contribution along with others.
Of course there were failures, no master drafter, recruiter or trade guru gets them all right
What I did refer to was Blair being the List Manager but since our last premiership 4 years ago we have gone backwards. We weren’t picking at the back end of the draft since then.
I doubt anyone would disagree with that fact. Between he and Matt Clarke what success stories have we had. Taranto, I’d give a tick. Hopper, in s(supporter) hindsight , a no. They’re highly paid to make those decisions . What else in 4 years?
Now back to the original post that brought us here.
We had nearly all the currency in our back end of picks to give Brisbane a still very generous return for their pick 20 and we kept pick 32.
That was the crux of it. Unless Blair has something else up his sleeve, which I acknowledged might be the case, and which I’m waiting to see. If he doesn’t, we got reamed.
Purely my opinion. Others differ.
Clarke now realising there's a world of difference between Recruiting Management & List Management.
In Blair we trust.
Wednesday is the day we get the deals we want.
Gold Coast don't have an Elite running back. forget Nobel he doesn't cut it as Elite. Hardwick is desperate for an Elite Running back - Rioli is it.
Come lunch time Wednesday we will get pick 6 & 13. or equivalent. They have no other option. We already have him and can walk away from the deal.
Freo have no elite small forward - we have Bolton who is not only Elite small forward also an elite clearance mid.
10,11 & 18 come Lunch time Wednesday they give us the 3 if we hold out.
On Wednesday where do GC get an elite running back from? too late - Pay up!!
On Wednesday where do Freo get an elite small forward/mid from? nowhere - Pay up.
The art of the deal is to know what the deadline is. The Japanese when negotiating with Americans would always find out when the Americans plane was leaving. They would play golf, have dinners, go sightseeing and never talk business until the last day.
Wednesday is the day we get the deals we want.
Gold Coast don't have an Elite running back. forget Nobel he doesn't cut it as Elite. Hardwick is desperate for an Elite Running back - Rioli is it.
Come lunch time Wednesday we will get pick 6 & 13. or equivalent. They have no other option. We already have him and can walk away from the deal.
Freo have no elite small forward - we have Bolton who is not only Elite small forward also an elite clearance mid.
10,11 & 18 come Lunch time Wednesday they give us the 3 if we hold out.
On Wednesday where do GC get an elite running back from? too late - Pay up!!
On Wednesday where do Freo get an elite small forward/mid from? nowhere - Pay up.
The art of the deal is to know what the deadline is. The Japanese when negotiating with Americans would always find out when the Americans plane was leaving. They would play golf, have dinners, go sightseeing and never talk business until the last day.
I didn't say you were being disingenuous, settle down.
You say go back 4 years.
2020 draft, we had pick 20 and 26. Last in first round. It was a thin draft, we traded and Geelong got Holmes (as zips points out 2-3 times a week). Our draft intel was clearly wrong though with him. Not a lot of success stories thereafter though. Traded into 2021. Right strategy, I'd say. Execution of 21 draft needed.
2021: yep, bunch of picks inside 30. We all know the deal there. Right list strategy, bringing in 5 young ones in a deepish draft.
2022/23: these picks Elijah Hewitt and Max Gruzewski for Taranto (big tick)
Toby McMullin and Daniel Curtin for Hopper. We might have taken Caddy if we'd kept it rather than Curtin, but who knows, we can't be sure! At this stage, Hopper is in front of those players, even though he's been disappointing with us. The Hopper deal, long term, not looking good. But if you only look at the two players taken at those picks - strategy looks OK. On a risk basis, it was probably the right call. We wouldn't have expected all the injuries and the coach to bail.
Questionable is the clubs strategy to try eek out one more Premiership. You can see the reasons why we'd have tried, especially after the final in Brisbane. Injuries have made that strategy fail miserably. On paper though, we're better than our performance.
Blair doesn't set the club strategy. He plays his part in building towards it as you'd know, but if you've got a three time premiership coach saying "we go again, these guys are still responding to me" you don't undermine him and say "nah, we'll go to the draft." If you do that, might as well sack him. A club that doesn't support their coaches vision will surely implode.
So, is Blair horrible? No. The strategy - which the whole club needs to wear, including our ex-jump-the-sinking-ship-coach has backfired. I think in terms of what we'd be asking him to do, he gets a pass, but nowhere near an A grade.
Tim Livingstone on the other hand....he'd want to get our High Performance manager right, and hope to god Yze lifts. I'd have him as a fail since 2021, and he should be looking over his shoulders if we perform below expectations this year.
I know what you wrote and my reply. Please read back. You “it was being ingenuous” I replied “it’s not being disingenuous”. So settle yourself.
I don’t know why you post who other clubs selected. There’s no guarantee we would have picked the same.
Nothing to do with what I posted
To a degree you’re right. But Blair is employed by the club, not the coach. As List Manager it’s his vision to set the tone for the future. Not just the now. His and the Recruiters need to have that vision to plan for this year, the next and possibly the next.
If you only react and plan for for the now. You’ll fail down the track. I doubt Hopper was ever going to be in the plan with Taranto, until trade week came about.
I’ve never said he is or has been. Could he have done better? Probably. Has he made mistakes? Yes of course he has.
Well I agree.
We need a massive improvement right across the whole organisation. Reset, start again
Im with Willo on this. I would take it further.
We have been getting A lot of things wrong since the 2016 draft.
To keep it short since 2016 we have bled the list dry, a list that effectively took 12 years to build.
While it is tough to continue to improve your list while winning, our list management, recruiting yes we have been limited with access to top picks, and development has been poor.
Imo we have failed abysmally with any sort of succession planning. That is if there was we a succession plan we got it awfully wrong.
It is really hitting home now but it started before 2021.
We have been getting A lot of things wrong since the 2016 draft.
To keep it short since 2016 we have bled the list dry, a list that effectively took 12 years to build.
While it is tough to continue to improve your list while winning, our list management, recruiting yes we have been limited with access to top picks, and development has been poor.
Imo we have failed abysmally with any sort of succession planning. That is if there was we a succession plan we got it awfully wrong.
It is really hitting home now but it started before 2021.
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