Thoroughbred racing

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Still, the allegation is every bit as serious as that of a footballer betting $10K on the opposition in a match he played in.

Interestingly it is alleged to have happened while Oliver was under police investigation over an even darker suspicion.

Maybe. I'm not commenting either way on the allegations. Wouldn't have a clue. Scoop referred me to the article so it's reasonable to ask him what he was actually getting at.

As for the even darker suspicions there were some comments removed on here about them at the time. I never read anything about a formal police investigation. Did anything actually come of it? Leysy referred to the matter as the biggest story in Australia's history if Damien was found guilty. That was 2 years ago. Was he found guilty? That incident you raise supports my opinion that making allegations of improper practice about an individual is pretty ordinary if it's nothing more than conspiracy theory, speculation or fabrication.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Scoop referred me to the article so it's reasonable to ask him what he was actually getting at.

Only because you referred to me!! The race currently under investagation LTRTR posted was what I was talking about.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Only because you referred to me!! The race currently under investagation LTRTR posted was what I was talking about.

Yes I realise that. It was mentioned in the article. What I don't realise is what you're validly questioning in regard to Gai's 2 horses yesterday. Are you questioning whether Gai, considering she said she wouldn't change the rides, and Nash, as the person controlling the rides, were in on some kind of rigging due to a bet on the race? If not what exactly are you questioning?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

As for the even darker suspicions there were some comments removed on here about them at the time. I never read anything about a formal police investigation. Did anything actually come of it? Leysy referred to the matter as the biggest story in Australia's history if Damien was found guilty. That was 2 years ago. Was he found guilty? That incident you raise supports my opinion that making allegations of improper practice about an individual is pretty ordinary if it's nothing more than conspiracy theory, speculation or fabrication.

There definitely was an investigation (Sep 2010)...

Star Jockey Damien Oliver questioned by Melbourne detectives
Racing Victoria dumps jockey Damien Oliver from spring carnival promotion

...a long-running investigation (Aug 2011)...

Twist in Damien Oliver case

...which faded from media attention, presumably due to a lack of evidence.

Re the betting allegation - Oliver's statement didn't refute it, and he wouldn't be the first to mount a defence of acting uncharacteristically due to severe stress.

And I'm definitely not making any allegations. I don't have any more verifiable facts about either issue than what has been reported by mainstream media.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Thanks for the information on the investigations. Those articles certainly don't mention what was claimed about him on here and it seems there has been no conviction from the investigation.

I'm not overly interested in whether Damien refuted the allegations in the article or not. As I said scoop referred me to the article and asked if I'd read it. When I read it earlier it said there was no evidence of match fixing. Therefore I was asking scoop what exactly are the valid questions he's asking in regard to Gai's horses yesterday.

 

[Baloo]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

It's becoming a bit like pro-cycling and Pakistani cricket matches. When something seems out of the ordinary people are going to be suspicious.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

I'm not overly interested in whether Damien refuted the allegations in the article or not. As I said scoop referred me to the article and asked if I'd read it. When I read it earlier it said there was no evidence of match fixing. Therefore I was asking scoop what exactly are the valid questions he's asking in regard to Gai's horses yesterday.

Didn't see the races so can't comment specifically, but every punter I've ever met was prone to occasionally wondering aloud where his money went.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Didn't see the races so can't comment specifically, but every punter I've ever met was prone to occasionally wondering aloud where his money went.

Does that have anything to do with scoops valid questions? I'm still none the wiser what they are.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

It's becoming a bit like pro-cycling and Pakistani cricket matches. When something seems out of the ordinary people are going to be suspicious.

Great post Spot on. Basically what I was referring to with yesterday's showing by Rawiller.

Bad rides won't be just looked on as bad rides. Question marks. With no answers.

 

[Streak]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Still, the allegation is every bit as serious as that of a footballer betting $10K on the opposition in a match he played in.

Interestingly it is alleged to have happened while Oliver was being investigated by police over an even darker matter.

Wasn't exactly Oliver's greatest ride (Europa Point).

I was once proud of Damian Oliver being a West Aussie.

Not these days.

 

[scottyturnerscurse]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

I was once proud of Damian Oliver being a West Aussie.

Not these days.

Will be a good day for racing when Oliver is banned.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

When something seems out of the ordinary people are going to be suspicious.

In this instance it seems a big call to question race fixing. The trainer indicated she's happy with the way the horses were ridden, and I'm sure she's astute enough to know if they aren't ridden on merit or to instruction, so any suspicions on the jockey fixing the race would have to involve the trainer being involved too. Ludicrous, baseless suspicions. More like conspiracy theories.

 

[Baloo]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

In this instance it seems a big call to question race fixing. The trainer indicated she's happy with the way the horses were ridden, and I'm sure she's astute enough to know if they aren't ridden on merit or to instruction, so any suspicions on the jockey fixing the race would have to involve the trainer being involved too. Ludicrous, baseless suspicions. More like conspiracy theories.

Maybe, but as a non horsey person after hearing about Nikolic, Oliver and other stories where the investigating commissioners admit they can't do much, I'm starting to view horse racing like cycling and subcontinent cricket matches.

I'm pretty sure Lance Armstrong and the US Postal team claimed any suspicion was ludicrous and baseless as well. I think the Pakistaniis just played the racism card when questions where thrown at them.

 

[thegdog]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Look past the public persona Oliver is scum of highest order

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Maybe, but as a non horsey person after hearing about Nikolic, Oliver and other stories where the investigating commissioners admit they can't do much, I'm starting to view horse racing like cycling and subcontinent cricket matches.

There has always been a dodgy element, as there probably has with anything that can be bet on, but I still reckon it's a big call to question Gai and Nash being involved in such practices yesterday and it's a slur on their character to do so. There's no evidence whatsoever to suggest it was the case.

 

[Baloo]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Like I said, to me at least when I hear of anything out of the ordinary I now automatically wonder if some funny business went on. I know nothing about the horses except for what makes the general news.

I can tell you now that when I heard this Pierro fella didn't win, the first thing I wondered was if Nikolic's third cousin was a part owner. But I have no idea who owns Pierro, who rode him and who trains him.

The only reason I know about him is because some morning show were talking about the two Pierros expected to dominate the weekend news. Maybe those with more intimate knowledge of gorse racing have a better understanding, but my thoughts are coming from a general uniformed doofus angle.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

I can tell you now that when I heard this Pierro fella didn't win, the first thing I wondered was if Nikolic's third cousin was a part owner. But I have no idea who owns Pierro, who rode him and who trains him.

Yep you can tell me that but that relative and 3rd part owner wasn't riding the horse so that's a bit different to questioning the jockey (and seemingly the trainer too) in regard to fixing the 2 races. It seems scoop is questioning the race from a more informed aspect about racing than you are.

He mentioned "darker forces" and next sentence added Nash saying he certainly gave the horse a hard ride "says it all". Far from saying it all I'd be very surprised if the 2 were connected.

They were big races. Racing's eyes were on them. If there is the slightest suggestion of improper practice the rides will be investigated, especially with 2 in a day.

Poor ride, other horses better on the day, conditions didn't pan out to suit, heavy weight, hard barrier, difficult track...there can be many considerations in regard to the results but I doubt there'd be too many informed racing people or officials suggesting Nash and Gai might have fixed the 2 races.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Tough on Nash to implicate him in anything underhanded. That's the brush that can get tarred when coverage is how it is ATM unfortunately.

To anyone with two eyes they were simply very poor rides. Nothing else.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Tough on Nash to implicate him in anything underhanded. That's the brush that can get tarred when coverage is how it is ATM unfortunately.

To anyone with two eyes they were simply very poor rides. Nothing else.

Agree, that's what I said. But the current climate will cause questions to be raised.

Maybe Shane Dye has handed the mantle over from his Veandercross ride. ;D

 

[jb03]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Tough on Nash to implicate him in anything underhanded. That's the brush that can get tarred when coverage is how it is ATM unfortunately.

To anyone with two eyes they were simply very poor rides. Nothing else.

So do we now take potential overs for Pierro in the Cox Plate and do we think that is simply can't win based on its run Saturday?

Surprised Williams jumped off it so quickly.

Agree, that's what I said. But the current climate will cause questions to be raised.

Maybe Shane Dye has handed the mantle over from his Veandercross ride. ;D

Not sure that will ever be matched. I notice too Dye is from the same school of denial as Lance Armstrong.