Thoroughbred racing

[spook]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Yeah, stinkin ride from Nash. Only way Pierro was going to lose. Had him all-up into Solzy, Buffering and Snitzerland. :veryupset

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Gai says all her horses are going to win as well. Do we always believe her?

Even Nash admitted he gave More Joyous a tough run. Does leysy think he cost her the race, perhaps not with the 60kgs. but she had none once he worked her like that.

As for Pierro, he boots him up the hill 4 & 5 wide after missing the kick on a pace 11 lengths quicker than normal. That is why a 1/5 pop was burnt at the end. Wasnt the horses fault it got run down..

They were poor rides. Fact.

Cant see why its so hard to admit that, every jockey thats ever ridden has had them. & Nash had his yesterday.

The article reads pretty accurately Leysy, he was a victim of circumstance but that on-pace at all costs style Gai likes didn't help. That being said, she's won a lot more races than she's lost by having her horses race that way. You gotta love the way she accepted the defeats yesterday too. Run that race 10 times and reckon Pierro wins it the other 9.

I wouldn't abandon Pierro in the Cox plate yet although you'll get way better than the 2.80 currently on offer on race day. More Joyous is really a 25/1 shot that you are getting 10/1 about, she's a massive question mark at the trip in such a high pressure race. No way would I run her in the Cox plate with so many more suitable races for her.

 

[Streak]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Yeah, stinkin ride from Nash. Only way Pierro was going to lose. Had him all-up into Solzy, Buffering and Snitzerland. :veryupset

Ouch.

Never put something in the red into an all-up.

I'd like to say it is one of my golden rules, but I still do it mind you. But is amazing how many times I have come unstuck chasing a few extra dollars.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Gai says all her horses are going to win as well. Do we always believe her?

Comments before a race based on knowledge, hope and expectation are very different to telling lies after a race when there are actual facts to discuss. You don't know why Gai wasn't blaming Nash and said she wouldn't change anything about the rides. Maybe he was riding to instruction and it didn't pan out as planned.

Cant see why its so hard to admit that, every jockey thats ever ridden has had them. & Nash had his yesterday.

Did you miss the bit where I said maybe Nash could have done things differently and there is always a jockey element? Considering you bagged the jockey and didn't mention any other factors influencing the results, directly after a post saying Gai must be wondering what went wrong, it's reasonable to think you were implying he was responsible for the losses.

Gai's word from an informed perspective or Leysy's thinking he knows better? Not a hard choice really.

 

[DragicevicFan]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Interesting case is Gai and the way the media report on her wins/losses.

When they lead and win, the media run the 'can't believe the other jockeys let her get horses get away with such an easy time', when they get rolled, 'she is one-dimensional and has no plan B for her runners'.

History probably suggests that she gets it right alot of time, by having her horses on the speed, and out of trouble, rarely having to look for runs or luck. The other side of that is that occasionally you get stuck out wide or in a battle for the front, and you come off second best.

 

[lukeanddad]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Thats Gai, she has never bagged a hoop, least not publically. He's a good jock, especially when he can rate them in front, but Nash cooked them yesterday. Not talking through leysy's pocket either as he backed the winner of the Toorak.



Here's why -

THEY say Gai Waterhouse never has time to cook and that's a good thing for Nash Rawiller.

Rawiller deserved an almighty bake for his back-to-back butchering of Gai's two champions at Caulfield yesterday.

It was almost as if the rider was now so immersed in Sydney and Gai's way of doing things - ie.foot to the floor, no sitting back - he forgot about the tricky nuances of Caulfield.

There is a hill near the 1400m mark at Caulfield so steep only sherpas should be allowed to climb it.

There has been a rule at The Heath for 100 years. If you work hard up the hill, even if your name is Kingston Town or Tenzing Norgay, you will struggle to make the summit.

Rawiller knows this.

In a previous life, Rawiller used to ride here. He even won a Caulfield Cup a few years back on Elvstroem.

But there he was in yesterday's Toorak Handicap, charging up the hill on More Joyous, whose 60kg impost became akin to Norgay lurching up Everest with Hillary's bags, and Hillary, on his back.

Rawiller eventually found a spot outside the leader but by the home turn the little mare was gasping and a goner.

In a post race interview, Rawiller all-but 'fessed up.

Pressman: "Nash, you said she needed a tough run before the Cox Plate ... "

Rawiller (with that embarrassed half-smile of a kid caught doing something naughty): "How do I put this? Well, I certainly gave her a tough run."

Waterhouse, who doesn't cook, at least not in public, smiled happily as an ashen Rawiller returned to scale.

"There's no point being glum. We've had a really nice day at the races and there's more to come," she said, beaming.

In a way she was right. There was more butchering to come. Rawiller, pre-programmed to go forward according to Waterhouse Rule 1A) - is there even a 1B)? - was posted on a limb from a wide gate for the first 200m then, as that deadly hill loomed, pressed forward to climb it on Pierro.

Sherpas and mountain goats went sprawling as Pierro climbed and climbed.

Course and RSN racecaller Greg Miles has called thousands of horses up the Caulfield hill over the decades. Rarely has Miles seen one climb and win.

"We'll see how good he is now," Miles said.

Later, form analyst Daniel O'Sullivan would tweet that the first 1000 metres in the Guineas, including that charge up the hill, was "11 lengths quicker than normal".

Again post-race, Waterhouse beamed as Rawiller sought to disappear into the earth.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/stars-left-gasping-on-trail-of-sherpas/story-fn67siys-1226495041300

Excellent analysis. Very sloppy rides, both of them.

Given recent news reports into this industry, one wonders if the jockey just had a bad day or whether other factors were at play...

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Gai says all her horses are going to win as well. Do we always believe her?

Even Nash admitted he gave More Joyous a tough run.

That's a similar situation to Luke Nolan being down on himself for his ride on Black Caviar at Royal Ascot and Peter Moody's scathing comments when he virtually told Luke's critics they wouldn't have a clue. Luke copped a fair pasting on PRE at the time too.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Given recent news reports into this industry, one wonders if the jockey just had a bad day or whether other factors were at play...

No doubt the latter. Heavy weights, classy opponents, wide barriers, races not run to suit...plenty of other factors involved.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Excellent analysis. Very sloppy rides, both of them.

Given recent news reports into this industry, one wonders if the jockey just had a bad day or whether other factors were at play...

You'd hope it was just a couple of stinking rides and not the other darker factors.

He had a bad day, his sheepish statement of "She needed a tough ride and I gave her that" say it all.

And good on Gai for keeping the cooks behind closed doors.

 

[spook]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Ouch.

Never put something in the red into an all-up.

I'd like to say it is one of my golden rules, but I still do it mind you. But is amazing how many times I have come unstuck chasing a few extra dollars.

Greed for that extra 20%.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

You'd hope it was just a couple of stinking rides and not the other darker factors.

What do you refer to by "darker" factors? It's very ordinary to even allude to Nash, or any other jockey or connection, being involved with anything untoward if there's no basis to it.

 

[jb03]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

That's a similar situation to Luke Nolan being down on himself for his ride on Black Caviar at Royal Ascot and Peter Moody's scathing comments when he virtually told Luke's critics they wouldn't have a clue. Luke copped a fair pasting on PRE at the time too.

Nolen's ride on BC was a dead set shocker despite what Moody said post race. Nolen admitted as much post race before the PR and spin took over.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Nolen's ride on BC was a dead set shocker despite what Moody said post race. Nolen admitted as much post race before the PR and spin took over.

Ok so Gai is a liar and now Peter is a liar? Funny how people on the internet know more than those actually involved.

I bet Luke's still down on himself if he thinks about it. Jockeys hardly jump off and high five everyone when a good horse doesn't have results as expected. Black Caviar was injured, she was tired, she'd travelled the world, she'd been shunted from here to eternity and back distance wise. Luke stopped pushing her as he'd usually do and she slowed down. Not her usual manner of racing. I wonder why she's had such an extended spell if it was the jockey's fault? Maybe he shouldn't have laid off but nobody questioned that at other times and he wasn't to know she was stuffed. Even Leysy said had Luke ridden a perfect race on her she'd only win by half a length maximum more. Which of you is correct about the ride? Was it a "dead set shocker" or did it just lessen the margin a smidgeon?

 

[Scoop]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

What do you refer to by "darker" factors? It's very ordinary to even allude to Nash, or any other jockey or connection, being involved with anything untoward if there's no basis to it.

Refer to front page of The Age.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/oliver-hurt-by-betting-allegations-20121014-27km7.html

It was mentioned by LukeandDad beforfe my post but I am not shocked that I was singled out.

Excellent analysis. Very sloppy rides, both of them.

Given recent news reports into this industry, one wonders if the jockey just had a bad day or whether other factors were at play...

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Ok so Gai is a liar and now Peter is a liar? Funny how people on the internet know more than those actually involved.

I bet Luke's still down on himself if he thinks about it. Jockeys hardly jump off and high five everyone when a good horse doesn't have results as expected. Black Caviar was injured, she was tired, she'd travelled the world, she'd been shunted from here to eternity and back distance wise. Luke stopped pushing her as he'd usually do and she slowed down. Not her usual manner of racing. I wonder why she's had such an extended spell if it was the jockey's fault? Maybe he shouldn't have laid off but nobody questioned that at other times and he wasn't to know she was stuffed. Even Leysy said had Luke ridden a perfect race on her she'd only win by half a length maximum more. Which of you is correct about the ride? Was it a "dead set shocker" or did it just lessen the margin a smidgeon?

I stand by every comment I made at the time about the ride and BC's condition. Moody himself more or less confirmed it: "She was lethargic and I could tell she wasn't at the top of her game. It was similar to Brisbane last year when I pulled the pin on the Doomben 10,000. She'd had enough. But this time we'd arrived at the other side of the world and everyone wanted her to run."

And in Nolen's own words: "The big engine shut down and I sh!t myself...It was a rookie mistake, I was looking after her. I just underestimated how gruelling this track is."

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

It was mentioned by LukeandDad beforfe my post but I am not shocked that I was singled out.

LukeandDad didn't mention "darker" factors, he said other factors. I responded to him suggesting other factors that could have come into consideration. That's hardly "singling" you out. :hihi

Your post clearly alluded to something improper. It's very ordinary to question the integrity of another person/people if there's no substance whatsoever behind it.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Your post clearly alluded to something improper. It's very ordinary to question the integrity of another person/people if there's no substance whatsoever behind it.

Did you click on the link? There is the something improper. The question is very valid considering the article.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Frankel goes around for the final time on Saturday night (our time) in the Champion Stks. Will be up against Cirrus Des Aigles who beat So You Think in this race last year, and Nathaniel who was pre-post favourite for the Arc.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

The question is very valid considering the article.

There's no indication in that article that the result was influenced by the alleged bet. Fairfax said it had no evidence that Oliver is involved in race-fixing, or that he had altered his riding on Europa Point to favour the horse he had bet on. What are exactly are you "valid"ly questioning about Nash? He bet on the 2 races or he threw the races for some reason?

Edit-Seeing the trainer said she wouldn't change the rides are you validly questioning her involvement too?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

There's no indication in that article that the result was influenced by the alleged bet.

Still, the allegation is every bit as serious as that of a footballer betting $10K on the opposition in a match he played in.

Interestingly it is alleged to have happened while Oliver was being investigated by police over an even darker matter.

Wasn't exactly Oliver's greatest ride (Europa Point).

[youtube=560,315]3sJ88DSBamE[/youtube]

Greg Miles: "Europa Point...forget that..."

Race market: 5/4 Miss Octopussy, 11/4 Europa Point, others 8/1 and over