Thoroughbred racing

[lukeanddad]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

If she's going to continue racing it should be overseas, where the skeptics are. And after Saturday, I'm not sure trainer and jockey are up to the job.

22 out of 22 not good enough for you? And even Don Bradman had some ordinary days, so not sure whether we should be questioning whether Luke is up to the job, based on 10 seconds of madness.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

22 out of 22 not good enough for you? And even Don Bradman had some ordinary days, so not sure whether we should be questioning whether Luke is up to the job, based on 10 seconds of madness.

She's undiminished in my eyes, but the connections made errors of judgement. Roy Higgins has forgotten more about racing than I know, and his opinion is similar. Nolen's blunder was dead set embarrassing, to him and to Australian racing.

That said, the pressure on them was incredible. It's why the likes of Cummings are legends where Moody is the trainer of a great horse. Bart would raise an eyebrow and make wry observations dripping with wisdom. Moody adopted a combative, in-your-face stance to deal with the pressure. It got the job done - just - but he was graceless at times.

 

[lukeanddad]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

She's undiminished in my eyes, but the connections made errors of judgement. Roy Higgins has forgotten more about racing than I know, and his opinion is similar. Nolen's blunder was dead set embarrassing, to him and to Australian racing.

My comments were more about your criticism of Moody and Nolen than the mare. Interesting that you raise Roy Higgins. He slaughtered Hyperno (Caulfield Cup?) - but would still be regarded as one of best ever 3-4 jockeys.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

My comments were more about your criticism of Moody and Nolen than the mare. Interesting that you raise Roy Higgins. He slaughtered Hyperno (Caulfield Cup?) - but would still be regarded as one of best ever 3-4 jockeys.

Moody flirted with fate when he brought BC back from 1400 to 1000 in a week. She had to pull out all the stops and the win proved her greatness (again). But it was a snap decision to run her and smacked of arrogance. She won, so nobody took Moody to task.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Black Caviar wat a champ!!!

She's a great champion, but Saturday night didn't showcase it.

After thinking about it a little, I reckon she should be retired. She has nothing left to prove in Australia and risks tarnishing the carefully-crafted image for the sake of adding a gratuitous exclamation mark to her career. If she's going to continue racing it should be overseas, where the skeptics are. And after Saturday, I'm not sure trainer and jockey are up to the job.

Yeah think they will have a very close eye on how she comes up after a spell. If she shows any signs of not coming back 100% in her trackwork or 1st race (if she gets there) it will be a well deserved end.

She'll be a 6 year old mare who's last prep showed signs of her slowing so it has to be on the cards.

Would love to see her go to Hong Kong though as she needs to show her best internationally to stamp her global greatness. Locally she's already there & then some.

 

[jb03]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Good posting L2R2R. Agree with everything you are saying. NOt sure Moody has coverred himself in glory with his continual antagonistic approach to the Poms and the race. Don't get why his whinging about the lack of time off BC has had when he knew the connections wanted to go to Ascot from a long way out.

The Adelaide runs may have also provided some clues as despite the PR they were not overly impressive.

 

[Leysy Days]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

A summary of Soul from the Betfair forum leysy. Better horse than it is given credit for perhaps.


i think your underestimating SOUL Bigtime as a 3y old he was unbeaten up the Flemington straight did lose later at Flem once but his form had tapered off at the time and had feet problems wearing Concussion plates and all shoes i think also ... but going of his Flem runs his 2 for 2 unbeaten on wet tracks and the track tonight did have some give in it which suited him and his problem feet.

Also he has now turned 4 and he could have come on leaps and bounds and don't forget he toweled Buffering at Flemington who BC has met 3 times and never beaten him more then 6.8L while the other two margins were under 3.8L and 2.8L and he also run a nose 2nd up the straight to Hay List in the NEWMARKET G1... so i don't know where you are getting SOUL being 20L behind BC since SOUL has flogged Buffering who is around 3.8L behind BC when she was pushed out in the LIGHTNING G1) at her best pushed out that is a fact! not a guess watch the videos yourself and you will see ...BC was pushed out in the LIGHTNING G1 when beating HL and Buffering and he was only 3.8L behind that is a FACT!!

SOUL could just be a super straight horse and with some give in the ground tonight it really could have suited him and his feet and he is only a 4y old and has heaps of upside ....i think your very underrating SOUL IMO Lets and not trying to get into a argument with you ...but you saying SOUL is 20L behind BC is just simply not right

Not sure of the validity of going back to a race 2 years & comparing them. There careers have gone a different path since. One's won 1.6m the other 500K.

Been having a look at that betfair forum as well. Rivalry is massive between us & the UK on there haha

 

[Rosy]

Re: Black Caviar wat a champ!!!

She's a great champion, but Saturday night didn't showcase it.

Disagree. To travel the world and beat the best they could put up is an absolutely awesome effort. If she ran injured it even more showcased what a champion she is. Only the most outstanding and honest horses would come again after easing off in reportedly quite severe pain.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Black Caviar wat a champ!!!

Disagree. To travel the world and beat the best they could put up is an absolutely awesome effort. If she ran injured it even more showcased what a champion she is. Only the most outstanding and honest horses would come again after easing off in reportedly quite severe pain.

It's all conjecture in the end. Moody paraphrasing the vet with "She would definitely have felt it in the run" doesn't tell us much. Anyway they're more or less free to shape the way history records it. The opposition weren't superstars, but agree that connections deserve plenty of kudos for taking the risk. As Saturday showed, a lot can go wrong.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Black Caviar wat a champ!!!

It's all conjecture in the end. .... The opposition weren't superstars, but agree that connections deserve plenty of kudos for taking the risk.

Whether it's conjecture, jockey error, lack of fitness or whatever the horse won, and she rallied late to do so. I don't think she'd be showcased as any more of a champion had she been flogged to the line and won racing away by a couple of lengths. People seem to be focussing on the narrow margin but fact is Black Caviar did what she had to to win, and showed an enormous will to win in doing so. I'm not sure I agree about the connections deserving kudos. I reckon the horse does though.

 

[jb03]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Not sure of the validity of going back to a race 2 years & comparing them. There careers have gone a different path since. One's won 1.6m the other 500K.

Been having a look at that betfair forum as well. Rivalry is massive between us & the UK on there haha

I think the poster was just highlighting that beating Soul by a length may not be as bad as first thought. ANother poster was saying that BC had 20 lengths on Soul which the poster I quoted was highlighting was just a touch OTT.

Certainly some spirited banter on there.

As a side note, if BC is using the travel factor as one reason for running below par then kudos should be given to Joe Janiak and Takeover Target who went all over the place and maintained a high level of consistency in his runs.

 

[tigerman]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Watching it live i was angry that Luke stopped riding her, it made it look like she fell over the line.
But thinking about it since, he eases her down every race, and that adds to her appeal, she wins being eased down.

 

[jb03]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by5GvPtwnN8&feature=youtu.be

Luke Nolen takes to jumps racing.

 

[jb03]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fQXPnWQ1c&feature=related

And this is the anti Luke Nolen.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by5GvPtwnN8&feature=youtu.be

Luke Nolen takes to jumps racing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fQXPnWQ1c&feature=related

And this is the anti Luke Nolen.

Some funny stuff there JB.

 

[jb03]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Some funny stuff there JB.

Yeah it is pretty hard not to laugh at both those.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

The inside track at Sandown (think it's called "Sandown Lakeside" now) used to be the steeplechase track, and there was a large gap in the rail in the home straight for horses to run onto the course proper for the finish. In the late 80's a visiting Irish jockey missed the gap completely when a dozen lengths in front...

 

[jb03]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

The inside track at Sandown (think it's called "Sandown Lakeside" now) used to be the steeplechase track, and there was a large gap in the rail in the home straight for horses to run onto the course proper for the finish. In the late 80's a visiting Irish jockey missed the gap completely when a dozen lengths in front...

Charlie Swan I think his name was or something like that.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Charlie Swan I think his name was or something like that.

Ha, that's the guy. And it was 1992, aboard 13-8f King Taros. His Wiki page mercifully omits mention of it.

 

[Tiger44]

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Fabulist is going around at Geelong today on the synthetic (where she is 2 wins from 2 starts). Has drawn barrier 1 ! Also has the massive impost of 61kgs which is going to make life difficult for her (she is not big to start with). To top that off we are not using a claiming apprentice, Noel Callow to ride. She has worked really well and is fit etc. etc. but ........... I can't recommend her on the basis of her last couple of runs where she has been ordinary to say the least. On the plus side I am off to Adelaide this afternoon to watch the tigers so will miss the race and it is likely to be her final race before retirement and stud. I will be backing her but only out of blind loyalty.

Funnily enough as one door closes another one opens, our 2yo called Sencircles is probably going to Bendigo next Thursday for her first start, goes ok.

Go Tigers

T44