The Pros and Cons of Tanking (Merged) | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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The Pros and Cons of Tanking (Merged)

Whats more important late season Wins or Early Draft pics?

  • Draft pics (inc priority pic)

    Votes: 98 56.6%
  • Late Season Wins

    Votes: 75 43.4%

  • Total voters
    173
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Giardiasis said:
They need to establish a solid fan base though. Can they afford to be easy beats early on?

Aren't they entitled to uncontracted players as well though without having to give up anything except cash? Could be wrong.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Tigers of Old said:
Aren't they entitled to uncontracted players as well though without having to give up anything except cash? Could be wrong.
Yeah one from each club, but you'd assume all the good ones will be signed up.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Win ,Win, Win.
The club has to start building a winning culture.Any Team with Ben Cousins in it have to believe it too.
In some games this year the Tiges have looked brillant for a Quarter or two,so with the new coach on board,some attacking footy i'll be looking at winning. 5 or 6 out of the last 10.
There will be a clean out at the end of the year but most of those players would have already drifted off the rader by then.
Might as well give time to the promising guys we already have, instead of waiting for the next young gun.
With 8 or 9 wins the Tiges will finish about 11th or 12th.Still getting a pick in the Top 10.
With the Picks i'll be looking at players with some beef on them not the skinny guys we usually pick up.Defenders and a couple of Ruckman/Forwards and a solid/Quick mid-fielder.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Harry said:
Picks mean nothing - lol.

I seem to remember a few supporters trying to justify us trading pick 19 for McMahon at the time becasue (a) we wouldn't have been able to pick a good kid at that pick and (b) we wouldn't have been able to develop him also.

JON was a pick 8, how awesome is that working out?

As I said, picks mean nothing if you don't focus on better recruitment and player identification, and better player development.

I would rather have a player with 80% ability developed to 95% of his potential, than a player with 95% ability developed to 50% of his potential.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

One thing we need to improve on in regards to draft picks is actually taking them in the first place. 3 N.D. picks in 3 of the last 5 drafts is a disgrace.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Tiger74 said:
JON was a pick 8, how awesome is that working out?

As I said, picks mean nothing if you don't focus on better recruitment and player identification, and better player development.

I would rather have a player with 80% ability developed to 95% of his potential, than a player with 95% ability developed to 50% of his potential.

Your living in the past Tiger74. That draft and all those before it we overseen by Miller. We are now much better resourced in recruiting than we ever have been. We can make the right choice. The risk is much lower.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Odd that, many credit Jackson for the JON pick.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Tigers of Old said:
Unless they are offered more money..

It will still be very slim pickings for GC17 in regards to players wanting to go there ILO. They might get one decent player like that, confident the rest will be mediocre players club's will be content to lose.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Leysy Days said:
It will still be very slim pickings for GC17 in regards to players wanting to go there ILO. They might get one decent player like that, confident the rest will be mediocre players club's will be content to lose.

I'm not so sure about that.
I'm sure you've been to the Gold Coast. Nice part of the world.
I think that there's quite a few players who might appreciate the change of scenery and the chance to be part of a new club.

I think you'll find that they'll land a few name players.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

IanG said:
Those who are saying they want late wins are mainly proponents for the notion that improvement can come just as much from development as getting high draft picks, which is hardly deluded. The evidence in favour of the importance of development combined with smart recruiting is greater than that for tanking.
are those same proponents the ones who defended and continue to defend the bowdens browns simmonds pettifers whites and richos of this world they wouldnt know development if they fell over it.

you want to know why development is so bad at the rabble footy club. they keep on picking blokes who have deficiencies that cant be fixed. they struggle to get early picks right yet alone all other types of picks.yet people want to forego the earliest possible picks we can get our hands on.

rfc ferals being rfc ferals its never the players the list is fine its always something else other than we are crap.

there is only one way to build the list its called the nd weather ferals like it or not we have no choice but to participate.i would rather participate whole heartedly and get it wrong than do what we currently do.

people talk about our golden era. well lets get one thing clear we were a power back then because the club was the best operater in the vfl at getting the right cattle to the club. we would push the boundaries of ethics and even go past those boundaries to get the cattle that we needed.

1986 and its a new system we now have, every club in the comp bar the rfc and ffc have totally embraced the nd and they push the boundaries of ethics if you like. they do what is needed to get and keep the right cattle.

over the last 5 to 10 yrs all clubs bar probably two have realised more and more the importance of early picks its got to the point where nearly all clubs rfc excluded will not give up their first round picks and most certainly top 10 picks for players unless they are exceptional footballers.

we are light yrs away the loss of all those old buggers probably means we will be worse next yr yep it will get worse before it gets better yet people want to forego pps and as many early picks as we can get for a few meaningless wins against fellow strugglers.
meaningless wins just last yr have already cost us watts 1pp rich 3 picks around 19 35 51 67. meaningless wins means we will miss out again on what should have been 1 pp pick 3 or 4 at the start of the first round and a pick around 19.

if the club just bit the bullet the last 3 yrs should have yielded 2007 cotchin 2. rance 18, selwood 19. 2008 watts 1 rich 3 pick 19.
2009 pick 1 pick 3 pick 19,
since wallace has been there and before he came i have screamed out for proper clean outs earluy draft picks a playing of the kids and the tank.under the draft system we have the end justifys the means,

the run home stkilda if they play close to their best we will get a hiding. adelaide another loss. carlton loss. nm 50/50. ess 50/50 melb50/50. syd loss collingwood loss hawthorn loss wce 50/50.

so at seasons end even if we win all 50/50s and we jag one other our wins should go something like this. nm 2. fr 1. me 1. wce 2 jag 1. thats 7 wins and against what why not tank what is there to be gained beating these teams nothing. we had better hurry up and learn how to manipulate the system we are forced to operate under because another decade of exactly the same *smile* will see us in melb and nm shoes.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

pharace said:
If that's your only conclusion, you need to expand your brain..........buy a Wii mate. ;D

Sheesh, every club needs early draft picks, but clubs exist to play and win games of footy, forst and foremost. Not limit and minimise outcomes. Our cattle, as you put it, presently are of a 9th to 12th placed side, IMHO. Said so at at season's beginning and nothing has changed my mind yet.
our cattle are currently 14 th placed and based on early picks depth quality we are last. people should be expecting at least 3 yrs near the bottom of the ladder the state of our list dictates this. whilst down near the bottom utilise the system to its max. we have already cost ourselves so much by not adopting the right approach over the last 3 yrs lets not make the same mistake again.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Disco Stu said:
Worse thing about the current rules with the priority pick is, I was at the game last night & the whole time I was thinking if we don't win it's ok as it will ensure a better draft pick come the end of the year.
A lottery system needs to be introduced for say, every team in the bottom 8.

Agree completley with your sentiment, I was thinking the exact same thing. But as for the method, pleeeeease nooooo lottery! This is done in the usa and many times top teams have a semi poor year, fall into the lottery and get the best picks.

There has to be a fairer way. Perhaps a formulae is needed so that first round order is based on weighted results over the previous three years. This means teams like Richmond who finish 9th perrenially will recieve priority assistance still in the knowledge they will not lose out on draft picks by winning.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Tigers of Old said:
I'm not so sure about that.
I'm sure you've been to the Gold Coast. Nice part of the world.
I think that there's quite a few players who might appreciate the change of scenery and the chance to be part of a new club.

I think you'll find that they'll land a few name players.

Fair enough, we'll have to wait & see there tooheys.

Doubt many players will want to leave the comfort of there mates & the cause there in, no matter the money offered. History certainly suggests clubs keep the players they want to keep.

Just cant see the lure of the goldcoast being much fun when your flying the flag with a bunch of kids that will get belted for the first few years.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Tiger74 said:
JON was a pick 8, how awesome is that working out?

As I said, picks mean nothing if you don't focus on better recruitment and player identification, and better player development.

I would rather have a player with 80% ability developed to 95% of his potential, than a player with 95% ability developed to 50% of his potential.
so what are you saying, the club has done nothing in this area so we should sit on our hands and do nothing. sheesh i thought miller got the arse.

again we only have one process we can go thru to fix the list its called the nd i would rather go thru said process and get it wrong than continue with the same old hedge our bets or do nothing.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Giardiasis said:
One thing we need to improve on in regards to draft picks is actually taking them in the first place. 3 N.D. picks in 3 of the last 5 drafts is a disgrace.
here here but the defenders of winning will have some sort of excuse.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Pickers35 said:
Win ,Win, Win.
The club has to start building a winning culture.Any Team with Ben Cousins in it have to believe it too.
In some games this year the Tiges have looked brillant for a Quarter or two,so with the new coach on board,some attacking footy i'll be looking at winning. 5 or 6 out of the last 10.
There will be a clean out at the end of the year but most of those players would have already drifted off the rader by then.
Might as well give time to the promising guys we already have, instead of waiting for the next young gun.
With 8 or 9 wins the Tiges will finish about 11th or 12th.Still getting a pick in the Top 10.
With the Picks i'll be looking at players with some beef on them not the skinny guys we usually pick up.Defenders and a couple of Ruckman/Forwards and a solid/Quick mid-fielder.
how many times does it have to be said winning meaningless games against crap sides like ourselves does not create a winning culture it cultivates mediocrity.

winning culture and more importantly a sustained finals period only comes from having the cattle capable of actually winning against top sides.
 
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

GoodOne said:
Are there any other professional sports in the world where you are encouraged to lose games? AFL has to do something about this mentality, its not normal.
Hate to be playing English soccer.
Tank to get a premium pick and get relegated to the VFL or SANFL. Wouldn't that upset the locals?
Strange how when people start to get all excited and find the woodie in the pocket over the prospect of early draft choices that they forget all about the players like Cox, Foley, Davey, Nahas and the scores of other rubbery late picks taken in rookie drafts who become quality players.
They also dismiss early picks that don't become champions within a few years like JON, or the couple of injured early picks the Dawks punted on who haven't advanced. I'm sure there was also a couple of Bummers in recent years that didn't do much who were drafted fairly early. Who was the ruckman the Bears , oops Lions picked early and then ontraded to Scumwood who still hasn't done much? Pity the failures are so forgetable and the late picks that star were always rated to be champions that no-one could understand why they'd been overlooked.

Strangest of all is how Geelong seem to rarely pick a dud kid.
Is it their magical recruiting system, or is it perhaps the quality of the senior players around them coupled with the development work done in bringing them through to senior footy.