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The Pros and Cons of Tanking (Merged)
- Thread starter AstuteTiger
- Start date
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
We're still a good chance to finish above 13th. :spin
Harry said:
We're still a good chance to finish above 13th. :spin
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
geelong had a fantastic core to work from. 3 gfs from 92 to 95. continued to play finals in 96 and 97 they finished second on the ladder in 97.
they then had a slight down period in 98 and 99. finishing 12th and 11th. they had young players in scarlett milburn king street wojcinski harley mooney with a core of senior players from the 92 to 97 period. it was really 98 thru trades and the 99 nd that made up a huge part of their resurgence at the end of 03 and in 2004.
the 99 draft snared them corey chapman ling enright and they traded for mooney.
2000 they made finals on the back of most of those core players still they got bundled out in an elimination final.they thought they werent to far away in 2000 and at the end of that yr traded heavily for kingsley murphy and white they soon realised the futility of this in 2001. the only player they got from 2000 whos still there was hunt.
2001 bought another low finish 12th they knew it was a good draft and they also realised it was time for a final cleanout. it was a perfect time to finish bottom half dozen. the 2001 draft snared them bartel kelly gairdner playfair steve and david johnson. add the 99 draft to this draft and you have their core from the 2007 premiership.
in a way they built their premiership on lower finishes they may not have bottomed out because of the core players they have had since the 80s. yep they have in the main been decent since 1989. every time they have had a low finish they have in the main made it count at draft time. sheesh even in 06 10th place after two finals appearances and they clean up with selwood. that 10th place got them the missing piece in their premiership puzzle.
the interesting thing on this mob is since 01 they have not had the need to use more than 4 nd picks each draft because the players and depth was there. the reverse for them has happened they have been forced to offload players they probably wanted to keep.
the latest pick they have used since 01 is pick 62 on mathew egan. and 61 on stokes.
theres very few who made a contribution to their premiership after the 01 draft. maybe 3 or 4 their side in the main was built on the back of low finishes. and no they didnt bottom out they have never had that need.
yep ludicrous comparing us to geelong or any other successful team for that matter.Harry said:
geelong had a fantastic core to work from. 3 gfs from 92 to 95. continued to play finals in 96 and 97 they finished second on the ladder in 97.
they then had a slight down period in 98 and 99. finishing 12th and 11th. they had young players in scarlett milburn king street wojcinski harley mooney with a core of senior players from the 92 to 97 period. it was really 98 thru trades and the 99 nd that made up a huge part of their resurgence at the end of 03 and in 2004.
the 99 draft snared them corey chapman ling enright and they traded for mooney.
2000 they made finals on the back of most of those core players still they got bundled out in an elimination final.they thought they werent to far away in 2000 and at the end of that yr traded heavily for kingsley murphy and white they soon realised the futility of this in 2001. the only player they got from 2000 whos still there was hunt.
2001 bought another low finish 12th they knew it was a good draft and they also realised it was time for a final cleanout. it was a perfect time to finish bottom half dozen. the 2001 draft snared them bartel kelly gairdner playfair steve and david johnson. add the 99 draft to this draft and you have their core from the 2007 premiership.
in a way they built their premiership on lower finishes they may not have bottomed out because of the core players they have had since the 80s. yep they have in the main been decent since 1989. every time they have had a low finish they have in the main made it count at draft time. sheesh even in 06 10th place after two finals appearances and they clean up with selwood. that 10th place got them the missing piece in their premiership puzzle.
the interesting thing on this mob is since 01 they have not had the need to use more than 4 nd picks each draft because the players and depth was there. the reverse for them has happened they have been forced to offload players they probably wanted to keep.
the latest pick they have used since 01 is pick 62 on mathew egan. and 61 on stokes.
theres very few who made a contribution to their premiership after the 01 draft. maybe 3 or 4 their side in the main was built on the back of low finishes. and no they didnt bottom out they have never had that need.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
Well researched claw.
It's like saying a broken down old car only needs a minor service because the car next door in brilliant condition has a minor service every now and then.
Geelongs list has been healthy for a long time and they've merely replenished every year to maintain it, which is why they've never bottomed out.
the claw said:
Well researched claw.
It's like saying a broken down old car only needs a minor service because the car next door in brilliant condition has a minor service every now and then.
Geelongs list has been healthy for a long time and they've merely replenished every year to maintain it, which is why they've never bottomed out.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
Jr is concentrating on individual instruction and getting players to play team-first accountable football, not necessarily winning games.
However I hate to say it as a pro-tanker, but even with a super young team I see us winning a lot more games that way than we did under Plough, we’ve got games against North, the D’s and WCE coming up. Sadly a 6-7 win season is well on the cards.
I’m a slightly less trouble though by winning games with a super young team though. I can’t express how annoyed I will be if we win games with a 35 touches from Bowden and three goals from Browny
Jr is concentrating on individual instruction and getting players to play team-first accountable football, not necessarily winning games.
However I hate to say it as a pro-tanker, but even with a super young team I see us winning a lot more games that way than we did under Plough, we’ve got games against North, the D’s and WCE coming up. Sadly a 6-7 win season is well on the cards.
I’m a slightly less trouble though by winning games with a super young team though. I can’t express how annoyed I will be if we win games with a 35 touches from Bowden and three goals from Browny
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
So you think the skipper is in on the tank too? I'd be surprised.
I heard word that Worsfold is about to sign another three year deal?? If that's correct then it adds weight to the tank theory.
Tigerchris said:
So you think the skipper is in on the tank too? I'd be surprised.
I heard word that Worsfold is about to sign another three year deal?? If that's correct then it adds weight to the tank theory.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
It was obvious the players threw the game. This would've all been discussed behind closed doors. They would be stupid to throw away priority picks especially after the St Kilda debacle. I think that was the turning point in thier season. Some clubs can see past next round. Unfortunately this club can't.
It was obvious the players threw the game. This would've all been discussed behind closed doors. They would be stupid to throw away priority picks especially after the St Kilda debacle. I think that was the turning point in thier season. Some clubs can see past next round. Unfortunately this club can't.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
well Harry as they say u can only patch up a split hose for so long eventually leaks come out from everywhere and that’s whats been happening at punt road for as long as i can remember we always try for the quick fix patching up the hose with tape only for it to split again and not performing to its capabilities, its time we get a new hose and that’s getting rid of players who wont take us to the promised land and not trading away for skinny flankers we need to rebuild with new young players, a lot i say in this coming draft at least 8 to 10 pics are needed, with hopefully 3 early pics in the top 20...
I say no more patching up the hose, the leaks havent stopped since the mid 80’s :-[
Harry said:
well Harry as they say u can only patch up a split hose for so long eventually leaks come out from everywhere and that’s whats been happening at punt road for as long as i can remember we always try for the quick fix patching up the hose with tape only for it to split again and not performing to its capabilities, its time we get a new hose and that’s getting rid of players who wont take us to the promised land and not trading away for skinny flankers we need to rebuild with new young players, a lot i say in this coming draft at least 8 to 10 pics are needed, with hopefully 3 early pics in the top 20...
I say no more patching up the hose, the leaks havent stopped since the mid 80’s :-[
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
I haven't read the thread because I can already guess the contents and the amount of times "deluded ferals" get used by those still shattered that RFC beat the West Coast.
If we continue to play the kids and the core team that will be with us for a couple more years, and these kids start winning games, then I am all for it. Let them go out there and let them win games. These kids are our future. Trying to instil a losing mentality into them during their formative years will just help the Richmond Cancer get a strong foothold into this batch.
By no means should we bring in players who wont be with us next year just to win a match. Just play the kids and coach them to win games. That's all this club needs right now.
I haven't read the thread because I can already guess the contents and the amount of times "deluded ferals" get used by those still shattered that RFC beat the West Coast.
If we continue to play the kids and the core team that will be with us for a couple more years, and these kids start winning games, then I am all for it. Let them go out there and let them win games. These kids are our future. Trying to instil a losing mentality into them during their formative years will just help the Richmond Cancer get a strong foothold into this batch.
By no means should we bring in players who wont be with us next year just to win a match. Just play the kids and coach them to win games. That's all this club needs right now.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
Sheehan wrote that in Woosha's presser that he was overly optimistic after the game and he suggested that WC could play finals as early as next season and could win another flag within 3 years..
He seems remarkably relaxed about things and does not sound like a coach under pressure which he should be after their last two years of finishing towards the bottom. Entirely focussed on their youth. Hmmmm..
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25635969-19742,00.html
Sheehan wrote that in Woosha's presser that he was overly optimistic after the game and he suggested that WC could play finals as early as next season and could win another flag within 3 years..
He seems remarkably relaxed about things and does not sound like a coach under pressure which he should be after their last two years of finishing towards the bottom. Entirely focussed on their youth. Hmmmm..
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25635969-19742,00.html
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
What can I say, WC are a smart club. Instead of plugging leaks for the next 10 years they are doing it the quicker but more painful way. It's much better than a quick fix which is what we've been doing for the past 27 years. No wonder we lack skill and quality across the board and people wonder why we were 1-8 by round 10. If thats not the biggest indicator of how deficient the playing list is then we are on a road to no where for the next 27 years.
What can I say, WC are a smart club. Instead of plugging leaks for the next 10 years they are doing it the quicker but more painful way. It's much better than a quick fix which is what we've been doing for the past 27 years. No wonder we lack skill and quality across the board and people wonder why we were 1-8 by round 10. If thats not the biggest indicator of how deficient the playing list is then we are on a road to no where for the next 27 years.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
Yep whilst many of us are starstruck at an aging castoff, Woosha is busy talking up Scott Selwood as the next Benny with another eye already on next seasons draft.
Yep whilst many of us are starstruck at an aging castoff, Woosha is busy talking up Scott Selwood as the next Benny with another eye already on next seasons draft.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
I'll look forward to your detailed report of those meetings behind closed doors then will I, seeing as you were obviously there. I can appreciate coaches trying to manipulate a result to get picks, I admit I probably would prefer this to happen this year with us, but the minute players start doing it the club is in trouble even without looking at AFL action. The minute they stop going 100% I reckon they've lost something mentally. Even those on the tanking bandwagon should be able to see that.
mad_doggy911 said:
I'll look forward to your detailed report of those meetings behind closed doors then will I, seeing as you were obviously there. I can appreciate coaches trying to manipulate a result to get picks, I admit I probably would prefer this to happen this year with us, but the minute players start doing it the club is in trouble even without looking at AFL action. The minute they stop going 100% I reckon they've lost something mentally. Even those on the tanking bandwagon should be able to see that.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
You're delusional if you think WCE came to play. As soon as we went up by 3-4 goals they would reply immediately. We maintained a safe buffer throughout the match. In fact I would almost go as far as match fixing exists in the AFL.
You're delusional if you think WCE came to play. As soon as we went up by 3-4 goals they would reply immediately. We maintained a safe buffer throughout the match. In fact I would almost go as far as match fixing exists in the AFL.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
Not sure why West Coast would sign him to be honest.
The experienced players have lost there way. They still had 8 players from there flag on sat night & pretty much all have gone backwards at an age where they should have still been improving.
In all his time he's never been able to structure up a cohesive forward line. Its just as big a dogs breakfast now as it's always been.
The flag on the back of the brilliance of Cox, Cousins, Kerr & Judd has certainly bought whoosher plenty of time. Way too much time in leysy's opinion.
The love of West Coast on here is pretty baffling. The valuable early draft picks they have had in recent years have been poorly used as well ILO. Time will tell on that front.
Tigers of Old said:
Not sure why West Coast would sign him to be honest.
The experienced players have lost there way. They still had 8 players from there flag on sat night & pretty much all have gone backwards at an age where they should have still been improving.
In all his time he's never been able to structure up a cohesive forward line. Its just as big a dogs breakfast now as it's always been.
The flag on the back of the brilliance of Cox, Cousins, Kerr & Judd has certainly bought whoosher plenty of time. Way too much time in leysy's opinion.
The love of West Coast on here is pretty baffling. The valuable early draft picks they have had in recent years have been poorly used as well ILO. Time will tell on that front.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
I don't need to go to meetings to see whats unravelling right in front of me. I sat 5 rows from the boundary and I saw everything. I was able to predict many plays that night and theres no doubt WC came to throw that game. WCE aren't as bad as everyone including the media thinks they are. It's no wonder why Woosha seems confident in restoring results as soon as the next year.
I don't need to go to meetings to see whats unravelling right in front of me. I sat 5 rows from the boundary and I saw everything. I was able to predict many plays that night and theres no doubt WC came to throw that game. WCE aren't as bad as everyone including the media thinks they are. It's no wonder why Woosha seems confident in restoring results as soon as the next year.
Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins
He's either got a master plan, is deluded into thinking they are better than they are or is bluffing the WC board.
I've heard Claw say that he thinks Woosha might be in trouble next season for some of the reasons you have outlined but surely if he is that then puts paid to any tanking talk on their part.
I've cannot believe that coaches trying to save their jobs are also deliberately tanking in the mean time. :headscratch
Leysy Days said:
He's either got a master plan, is deluded into thinking they are better than they are or is bluffing the WC board.
I've heard Claw say that he thinks Woosha might be in trouble next season for some of the reasons you have outlined but surely if he is that then puts paid to any tanking talk on their part.
I've cannot believe that coaches trying to save their jobs are also deliberately tanking in the mean time. :headscratch
