The Pros and Cons of Tanking (Merged)

[AstuteTiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

mate I've worn out my fingertips - refer to the game day thread. Some people just can't see past their nose.

aint that the truth, look of course we ALL want to see the RFC successful but it hasnt worked finishing 9th or 10th or 11th for that matter, how good would it be if we could snare some young guns like we did with our early draft pics and priorities in 2004 and 2007 with the likes of lids, bling, cotchin and rance....These 4 being either top 5 or priority pics...

Sure we can pick up good talent like riewoldt or collins etc but guys like Lids and Cotchin dont go past pic 3 let alone pic 5

 

[seven]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

aint that the truth, look of course we ALL want to see the RFC successful but it hasnt worked finishing 9th or 10th or 11th for that matter, how good would it be if we could snare some young guns like we did with our early draft pics and priorities in 2004 and 2007 with the likes of lids, bling, cotchin and rance....These 4 being either top 5 or priority pics...

Sure we can pick up good talent like riewoldt or collins etc but guys like Lids and Cotchin dont go past pic 3 let alone pic 5

Yet Geelong finished 12 - 10 for a number of years and were still able to build a premiership team.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Yep. Geelong would be a good model for us. Instead of looking at bottoming out they focused on player development and list management.

7 they also were fortunate enough to have some decent father sons with the likes of Scarlett, G.Ablett, N.Ablett, Blake and Hawkins, the first 2 being absolute guns who would go easily top 3 in any draft and hawkins still learning the caper but would go top 10...

 

[Tambling Man]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

I wouldn't like to sell what little is remaining of Richmond's pride for pick 19 in a thin draft. If there was a NickNat, Franklin or Kreuzer up for grabs it might possibly be worth fielding an inferior team, but we are talking about pick 18-19 ie: C.Dempsey, Bower, Grigg, Hislop, or at best Rance or Ward.

That being said, fielding a young team in the hope that they will develop is perfectly acceptable, particulalry when the likes of Pettifer, Brown and Bowden will not be here when we are a power again.

JR picked a young team, and we won, I'd rather him continue to do that rather than pick the tried and untrue and win.

 

[Harry]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Yet Geelong finished 12 - 10 for a number of years and were still able to build a premiership team.

don't look at geelong, they've always had a good core group of senior players that knew how to win games which helped develop the kids coming through. At tigerland the senior players could only hand down how to lose and go into their shells while doing so. That's why we need a massive cull to clean out the rotten culture and we need a massive influx of talented kids, coz a softly softly approach aint gonna help this club.

 

[Azza]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

an appreciated different look at things Azza, i think we will difinitely look at the list more so than TW (what a disaster he was) and find the right balance BUT i do believe we need more talent coming through and this being the last draft to pick up some early draft pics we need to take advantage of it cause in the next 3 yrs u can forget about it....

Fair enough Astute. Turning it around then, I can handle losing games if it means setting us up for the future. So I guess if forced to choose I'd go with the draft pics option. But what i don't like about tanking is reinforcing the loser mentality we've had for so long among the player group. So if options are chosen at the selection table or on gameday that weaken (or might weaken) the team, I'd want it to be part of exploring possibilities rather than deliberately attempting to lose games through poor match-ups.

 

[Tambling Man]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

7 they also were fortunate enough to have some decent father sons with the likes of Scarlett, G.Ablett, N.Ablett, Blake and Hawkins, the first 2 being absolute guns who would go easily top 3 in any draft and hawkins still learning the caper but would go top 10...

I don't remember Scarlett's draft but FB's rarely go first round.


There is no way Ablett would have gone top three in 2001. Hodge, Ball and Judd were absolute standouts, Bartell a smidgen behind. Ablett would have been lucky to go first round, he was AA, but a lazy, dinky forward pocket who had lots of skill but not the attitude. Tambling was a far better junior than Gablett.

On the other hand I agree about Hawkins, he would have gone top ten.

Geelong has been superb at developing talent, but it really helps when they come in a big group-7 0r 8 out of the one draft. The backbone of Geelong and Port Adelaide's premiership stemmed from single drafts, while the Hawks did it from two drafts. I don't think draft position is as important as the total number of kids taken. I would rather have three yhird round picks in the one draft than pick 19.

 

[Harry]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

rather than deliberately attempting to lose games through poor match-ups.

nothing wrong with this.
Worsfold played stenglein on Morton instead of an AA full back in Glass.
Got them one step closer to a priority pick.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

when you start beating decent opposition in big games.

I think that's a great post.
We are still only beating the sides that don't matter a pinch of *smile*.

 

[Tiger74]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

nothing wrong with this.
Worsfold played stenglein on Morton instead of an AA full back in Glass.
Got them one step closer to a priority pick.

would Glass have been quick enough for Morton? He didn't look mobile enough to lock him down (IMO)

 

[AstuteTiger]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

I don't remember Scarlett's draft but FB's rarely go first round.

There is no way Ablett would have gone top three in 2001. Hodge, Ball and Judd were absolute standouts, Bartell a smidgen behind. Ablett would have been lucky to go first round, he was AA, but a lazy, dinky forward pocket who had lots of skill but not the attitude. Tambling was a far better junior than Gablett.

On the other hand I agree about Hawkins, he would have gone top ten.

Michael Hurley did, pic 5 to the bombers he is a bona fide FB

On Yablett Ok perhaps not but "we dont know for sure" cause he was always going 3rd rd to the cats...

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

nothing wrong with this.
Worsfold played stenglein on Morton instead of an AA full back in Glass.
Got them one step closer to a priority pick.

We'll get a clearer picture if Woosha is tanking deliberately or not if he keeps his job come years end.

 

[Tigerchris]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

We'll get a clearer picture if Woosha is tanking deliberately or not if he keeps his job come years end.

They're tanking alright you just had to see some of the attempts of defending by Glass in the game last nite was laughable, our club would have no idea how to tank, this club will never go forward just keep aiming for 10th !!!

 

[Djevv]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

I agree we need talent, but can the board realistically ask the young caretaker to throw 9 of the last 10 games? This is cheating of a pretty low type - I don't think even the Blues stooped to this. If it ever came to light there would be hell to pay.

 

[Phar Ace]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

I agree we need talent, but can the board realistically ask the young caretaker to throw 9 of the last 10 games? This is cheating of a pretty low type - I don't think even the Blues stooped to this. If it ever came to light there would be hell to pay.

And someone would write a 'reveal-all' book on it at some point

 

[ToraToraTora]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Haaaahaaaaa! The late season wins votes has exploded! I'm sure it'll come back to the field after the Saints game!

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

It's all gets very confusing. :headscratch
Some vocal tankers here have advocated playing kids and if they're improving and we win so be it but on the other hand they wants us to then deliberately try to lose even when playing those kids.
Really if we truly wanted to tank effectively for draft picks it would be to maintain the status quo of keeping the dud coach and playing the elderly & duds but then you'd be sacrificing development time in juniors and promoting a winning culture.
It gets complicated when you want to have your cake and eat it too.
I guess it comes back to who it is that you end up beating..

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Brisbane will never win a flag with thier list.

Hawkins would've went number 1 in 2006.

I hope the train is fired up after Rd 12. We'll need and probably get a serious football lesson.

 

[Streak]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

when you start beating decent opposition in big games.

How exactly do you see us beating decent opposition sides when you are tanking?

 

[IanG]

Re: To win or not to win - Draft pics V late season wins

Brisbane will never win a flag with thier list.

Why not? They're good across all lines when they haven't got injuries.